77 réponses à ce sujet

[CerberusSoldier]

Mass Effect 1 and 3 are the real Mass Effect games simple as that . Mass Effect 2 is one huge side quest with no purpose and as I and many others now know so are the LI in ME 2 completely worthless .

[CerberusSoldier]

neubourn wrote...

Mass Effect is an IP.

ME1-3 is SHEPARD's "trilogy"

  


really maybe ME 1 and 3 but 2 is completely and utterly pointless 

[DifferentD17]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Are you really asking why have goals if you might change things as you go? Well, a goal gives you something to work towards. A plan is a structured way of achieving those goals. If those goals change significantly, the plan kinda has to change, but you can change your plans without affecting your goal.

To continue your example (if I'm reading it correctly): if you plan to finish in four years, but find that you can't, then you change your plan and fulfill as much of your goal as you can. Depending on the exact nature of your goal, of course. some goals can't be half-completed; they're all or nothing. With college, you'll either have to work even harder, change your plan so you can take other classes at other times, or apply for exemptions with your faculty so you can get a conditional degree award or whatever. And the entire time you're in school, you're writing research papers, doing assignments, completing projects, and also managing your time so you can go out with friends, work, date, have vacations, and have some leisure time without affecting your grades. And that is the "making everything up as you go" part of the college plan.

Are you suggesting Bioware comprimised on things so they could finish the game(s) with in 4 years? That shouldn't have been the goal anyone that plays RPGs of this magnitude should take at least 4 years each.

[Juniper Mucius]

DifferentD17 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Are you really asking why have goals if you might change things as you go? Well, a goal gives you something to work towards. A plan is a structured way of achieving those goals. If those goals change significantly, the plan kinda has to change, but you can change your plans without affecting your goal.

To continue your example (if I'm reading it correctly): if you plan to finish in four years, but find that you can't, then you change your plan and fulfill as much of your goal as you can. Depending on the exact nature of your goal, of course. some goals can't be half-completed; they're all or nothing. With college, you'll either have to work even harder, change your plan so you can take other classes at other times, or apply for exemptions with your faculty so you can get a conditional degree award or whatever. And the entire time you're in school, you're writing research papers, doing assignments, completing projects, and also managing your time so you can go out with friends, work, date, have vacations, and have some leisure time without affecting your grades. And that is the "making everything up as you go" part of the college plan.

Are you suggesting Bioware comprimised on things so they could finish the game(s) with in 4 years? That shouldn't have been the goal anyone that plays RPGs of this magnitude should take at least 4 years each.

Or, maybe BioWare was expecting more time but their publisher told them they had less.  I hate it when people go around hating on EA all the time, but it's the truth.  EA is a corporation out to make money.  If BioWare says, here's the plan, here's how long it will take us, EA can say, "I like it, but here's how much time you actually have."  So BioWare has to change things and modify things to meet the new time limit they've been given.  You can then decide to BioWare for giving in and not saying, "no, we're doing it in our time period".  EA could just say, "well now you're fired".

Or you could really just hate EA for giving BioWare a strict time period to finish the game so it could be out at a certain time.  But the thing is, a corporation like EA has a business model based upon consumer habits and spending.  So if you hate EA for what they do and what their policies are, then you have to hate the consumer that helped EA come to making deadlines on games.

[Shahadem]

You still play as Commander Shephard don't you?

[jazzkon]

Olueq wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Me2 had nothing to do with anything.

Right, except introduce ME3's most important character... 

They wasted a whole game on that? Why not DO something about the reapers? . The Collectors were meaningless

The Collectors were meaningless? They attacked human colonies  creating husk's Creating a human reaper!... Does that nothing about the reapers?

[AdrynBliss]

?? whether or not it was intended from day one doesn't change the fact its a trilogy now.

[Prom001]

@Stanley Woo

mmhh i guess my english leaves me a little there.
the college thing wasnt to good to talk about to compare to what i wanted to say.
My post was guess motivated because I dont see the "changing" plan behind it.
Game with audio commentary maybe?

@Allworkandlowpay

I see.

@Guglio08

I will not go into this.

[Prom001]

So after sleeping on it.
I was under the assumption that there was an outline, kind of
like an Architect first draws the Schematic.
When in fact you guys have more of an gardening way and that you have an idea start und see
where it takes you.

[Roflmonger]

ME3 = terrible in terms of progression. The ME2 emails should have tipped everyone off that Bioware isn't really capable of writing a coherent story without resorting to lame-ass tactics.

Killed Rachni queen -> lol theres another one
Rewrote Geth -> lol turns out they turn evil anyways
Crappy deux ex machina known as the Crucible (no other options? Really)

[Arthas9]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

[CerberusSoldier]

Arthas9 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

  



Oh please the Bioware damage control is in full force I see

[Juniper Mucius]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Arthas9 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

  



Oh please the Bioware damage control is in full force I see

Yes.  Because telling someone something that is common sense is "damage control".  #fail

[Arthas9]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Arthas9 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

  





Oh please the Bioware damage control is in full force I see

Yes, and I am Mr. Bioware Hungary who covers his secret operations of Bioware-EA propaganda by studying medicine in the Szeged Medical University and working at the cardiology center. Nice incognito, aye? Or you being a bit paranoid, dear Sir? What if I truly (no conspiracy of one here) agree with Stan and what if I really like the direction of the story. Hells bells! We are still talking about a game which we haven't played yet and only know a few pieces of info from a guy who had one playthrough. Why don't you just wait and see. You don't even have to buy it. Just wait till it comes out, read the reveiws of others, damn even download the game and try it yourself if you'r still sceptical and then you can smash your gavel down on the game and it's creators. I will buy my preordered CE because I like what I"ve heard so far... problem?

[marstor05]

This is intergalactic war and people want it to be all fluffy bunnies and happily ever afters?

There is always a harsh price to pay in war. Maybe this is what will be played out in any future games.

Whatever happens, sheps story is done here. You can save the universe, or let it fall. The choice is yours.

[Arthas9]

Sorry for being a bit of jerk, but this is becoming rediculous mr. CerberusSoldier. This is not the first time you adress me in such a silly manner.

Modifié par Arthas9, 29 février 2012 - 10:49 .

[CerberusSoldier]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Arthas9 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

  



Oh please the Bioware damage control is in full force I see

Yes.  Because telling someone something that is common sense is "damage control".  #fail

    



The fact you and everyone else need to understand is the ending to the game is now out and they can not handle it . Because all this anti spoiler crap and for what protecting a story with no real purpose oh please its damage control and in the worse way

[Arthas9]

marstor05 wrote...

This is intergalactic war and people want it to be all fluffy bunnies and happily ever afters?

There is always a harsh price to pay in war. Maybe this is what will be played out in any future games.

Whatever happens, sheps story is done here. You can save the universe, or let it fall. The choice is yours.

Nicely put and summed up .

[CerberusSoldier]

Arthas9 wrote...

Sorry for being a bit of jerk, but this is becoming rediculous mr. CerberusSoldier. This is not the first time you adress me in such a silly manner.

  



I  am certainly am sorry for offending you 

[Arthas9]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Arthas9 wrote...

Sorry for being a bit of jerk, but this is becoming rediculous mr. CerberusSoldier. This is not the first time you adress me in such a silly manner.

  



I  am certainly am sorry for offending you 

Alright, me too... though I am not offended but found it a bit funny and annoying. 

[Juniper Mucius]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Arthas9 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I think you have a very narrow view of how the creative process works. It is entirely possible to be both a trilogy and to be making stuff up as we go along? I mean, just because you plan to finish college in four years doesn't mean you can't change your major or swap classes around or take summer sessions or have to re-take classes that you fail.

Besides that, as long as you enjoy the series, what difference does it make? Just enjoy the game!

Well said Sir! Tolkien wrote his groundshaking trilogy in many years and had to change many-many things during the process many-many times. As far as I know he even started to write the book all over agian from scratch several times. Creation is a complicated but a very satisfying process. You come up with ideas and later on dismiss them or change them. You create as you go even if you have a plan of some sort. This is not a house that you build but a story you write. Two completely different ways of creation. One has to hold on to a strict plan (the planning is the true creative process there - you can only change minor details later on), the other does not and has a lot more freedom. 

  



Oh please the Bioware damage control is in full force I see

Yes.  Because telling someone something that is common sense is "damage control".  #fail

    



The fact you and everyone else need to understand is the ending to the game is now out and they can not handle it . Because all this anti spoiler crap and for what protecting a story with no real purpose oh please its damage control and in the worse way

You do understand that this thread, the OP, is asking if Mass Effect was a planned trilogy or just made up as it went along, right?  Woo was letting the OP know that most trilogies are made up as they go along.  You then mocked Woo's statement as "damage control", which actually makes no sense in the context.  Unless you honestly believe Mass Effect is the only trilogy that was created as it went along.  In which case, you're very naive.

[Newtype Taichou]

I think maybe the OP was alluding to the notion that ME2`s plot felt pointless in terms of the grand scale. There was no real substance or coherence to the overall plot. Had a lot more potential, hopefully ME3 has that complete feeling as ME1 did.

[Juniper Mucius]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I think maybe the OP was alluding to the notion that ME2`s plot felt pointless in terms of the grand scale. There was no real substance or coherence to the overall plot. Had a lot more potential, hopefully ME3 has that complete feeling as ME1 did.

ME2 suffered from the "second in a trilogy" that many, except for Empire, suffer.  Mass Effect was planned as the first in a trilogy, but could have been played alone.  Mass Effect 2 is a clear set up for another installment.  There are "plot holes" because the plot isn't finished.  It's not meant as a stand alone game.

[Newtype Taichou]

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I think maybe the OP was alluding to the notion that ME2`s plot felt pointless in terms of the grand scale. There was no real substance or coherence to the overall plot. Had a lot more potential, hopefully ME3 has that complete feeling as ME1 did.

ME2 suffered from the "second in a trilogy" that many, except for Empire, suffer.  Mass Effect was planned as the first in a trilogy, but could have been played alone.  Mass Effect 2 is a clear set up for another installment.  There are "plot holes" because the plot isn't finished.  It's not meant as a stand alone game.

You're right it did suffer, "plot holes" aren't there because it's the second in the game. That's no excuse. A game simply being the second in a trilogy doesn't allow it any passes. 

[Juniper Mucius]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

The Free Jaffa wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I think maybe the OP was alluding to the notion that ME2`s plot felt pointless in terms of the grand scale. There was no real substance or coherence to the overall plot. Had a lot more potential, hopefully ME3 has that complete feeling as ME1 did.

ME2 suffered from the "second in a trilogy" that many, except for Empire, suffer.  Mass Effect was planned as the first in a trilogy, but could have been played alone.  Mass Effect 2 is a clear set up for another installment.  There are "plot holes" because the plot isn't finished.  It's not meant as a stand alone game.

You're right it did suffer, "plot holes" aren't there because it's the second in the game. That's no excuse. A game simply being the second in a trilogy doesn't allow it any passes. 

I still don't see how it suffered.  To me, the only plot holes are that some questions aren't answered.  Those questions will most likely be answered in Mass Effect 3.  If they aren't, then yes, they are plot holes.  But so far, they are just unasnwered questions.  I, personally, see no problems with Mass Effect 2.