315 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

RamsenC wrote...

I use GPS on almost all my classes now :l

I agree with that top 5. I wouldn't use anything other than those except carnifex when I want 200%. 

GPS is pretty much the best gun in the game overall across the widest range of classes.

[peddroelm]

Graal

- fires 6 spikes (which behave much like regular shotgun pellets but have travel time and cannot penetrate cover)
- ignores armor DR
- fully charged shots double base weapon damage (as a consequence they also double ammo power damage)
- does instant damage - no DamageOverTime
- can score HeadShots


GPS (geth plasma shotgun)

- visually fires 3 projectiles
- fully charged shots do listed weapon damage (100% for shot 1, 30% for the other 2 )
- ammo power damage applies only to the first shot
- igores armor DR
- IGNORES SHIELD GATIG MECHANIC (a few hp of shield will NOT absorb a projectile damage - damage will bleed trough)
- cannot score head shots
- the GPS gets continuous damage increase (up to max damage at full charge) as you hold the fire button down ...
- snap shots (minimum fire button hold down) have a ~ 0.45 % modifier (as you hold the fire button down the weapon charges - at full charge that modifier reaches maximum value 1 , releasing the fire button before fully charged will do partially charged damage (between snap shot damage and fully charged damage)

=======
=======

Barrel Extender V 25% , 22.5% ed from passives


Graal X
Body shot charged (cloak bonus)
100 * 2 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225 + 0.9) = 475 (*6 =2850)

Hits hard enough on body shots to down unprotected mooks in one CLOAKED CHARGED BODY shot and protected ones in 2 CLOAKED CHARGED BODY shots

100 * 2 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225 + 0.65) = 425(*6 = 2550)

Hits hard enough for soldiers with AR also

For all other classes (krogan soldier ?)
100 * 2 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.225) = 295 (*6 = 1770)
Will kill cerb troops with charged shot to body

Even more math related to shotguns (Claymore, GPS & Graal)in this post

Modifié par peddroelmz, 09 avril 2012 - 09:03 .

[ABjerre]

Sabresandiego wrote...
9.5 Falcon Assault Rifle Grenade Launcher (Best Used By: Anyone, Human Vanguard)

Whaaaa?

Sabresandiego wrote...
9 Scorpion Heavy Pistol Sticky Grenade Launcher  (Best Used By: Anyone)     

Stopped reading there.

[peddroelm]

ABjerre wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
9.5 Falcon Assault Rifle Grenade Launcher (Best Used By: Anyone, Human Vanguard)

Whaaaa?

Guess you did not see the video of 2 lvl 1 krogans beating gold using falcons 

[Sabresandiego]

Ive seen the math on the graal, and on paper it looks great. In game, I have never been greatly impressed by it, and have never seen anyone else use it to extreme effect. The instant shot damage seems weak, and the reload is too long. Perhaps on an infiltrator the weapon functions best and is worthy of an 8. Anyone else have an opinion?

[Sabresandiego]

ABjerre wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
9.5 Falcon Assault Rifle Grenade Launcher (Best Used By: Anyone, Human Vanguard)

Whaaaa?

Sabresandiego wrote...
9 Scorpion Heavy Pistol Sticky Grenade Launcher  (Best Used By: Anyone)     

Stopped reading there.

The falcon is a highly specialized weapon that can do something no other weapon can, it can AOE stagger and also apply AOE ammo effects. Shots can also be banked, and the gun can also force enemies out of cover. The damage is very mediocre, but thats not what the gun is primarily for. The damage is acceptable, and its other features are absolutely astounding.

As for the scorpion, this gun also staggers enemies, and does very high AOE damage. It can also apply AOE ammo effects. The drawbacks to the gun are the projectile travel time, and the delay on explosion. This gun requires experience to learn how to use it properly, but once you do, it is one of the best weapons in the game.

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Ive seen the math on the graal, and on paper it looks great. In game, I have never been greatly impressed by it, and have never seen anyone else use it to extreme effect. The instant shot damage seems weak, and the reload is too long. Perhaps on an infiltrator the weapon functions best and is worthy of an 8. Anyone else have an opinion?

I did not say it is great - I just did the numbers  ... 

[Lexa_D]

ABjerre wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...
9 Scorpion Heavy Pistol Sticky Grenade Launcher  (Best Used By: Anyone)     

Stopped reading there.

That's how I felt before I started shooting the floor - it's actually a proximity mine launcher, blast with no delay.

[peddroelm]

About the Assault rifles viability on soldier - gold difficulty 


Vindicator X (200% cooldown to spam AR)

Spec for mook removal - mostly innefective vs amored units without AP ammo

- stability mod lvl V required to get the triple HS for maximum damage (maybe 2 should be considered - not convinced human soldier can get tripple HS at range with Vindicator X and this mod)
- AR scope (again aiming towardsthe 3 HS burst )
- 65%  - AR
- 20% HS perk
- 20% passives (variable)


Damage Done Per Tripple Headshot under AR (teoretical - 
human soldier can get tripple HS at range with Vindicator X ? )

78 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.65 + 0.2) * 2.5 * 3 = 1199.25 (nearly  1 burst for silver cerb troops (ammo power solves this )

It is very satisfing and powerfull to down 1 mook per 3 round burst and protected ones per 2 bursts (~balanced to infiltrator power ) ....ON SILVER

But you cannot replicate it on gold - even with AR rail and Warp Ammo 

((78 * 0.35) + (78 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.65 + 0.2 + 0.3) * 2.5)) * 3 = 1456.65 (1687.5  are cerb troops , ~2k are reapers)

So 2 bursts for the basic mooks, 4 for the protected ones (infiltrator with semi auto can down 1+ per cloak cycle) ...Soldier Begins to fall behind ...


===================
Revenant X - turian soldier  - stability//accuracy build 
Stability mod and scope  (maximum stability and accuracy bonuses)

Maximize chance to put short bursts on target head .. 


20% HS perk
20% WD passives
25% marksman HS perk

71.2 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25) * 2.5 = 293.7

6 HeadShots to drop Cerb trooper   (revenant fires  more than10 rounds per second without marksman up) 
9 HeadShots to drop Geth pyro Shield 

With AR rail consumable III

71.2 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.25 + 0.3) * 2.5 = 347.1 

5 HeadShots to drop Cerb trooper   (revenant fires  more than10 rounds per second without marksman up) 
8 HeadShots to drop Geth pyro Shield  

===================
Mattlock X 117.8

Human Soldier
25% extended barrel
& the omnious scope add-on
65% AR
20% HS perk
20% passive

Damage per headshot 

117.8 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.65 + 0.2 + 0.2) * 2.5 = 677.35

- 3 Hshots for Cerb troop, Geth Trooper
- 4 shots Cannibal
- 4 shots for Geth pyro Shield

Macro this weapon to fire 4 rounds for mouse 1 click and you got near BW infiltrator effectivity ....  

====================



Will someday do the math - how many bullets to the head it takes soldier with AR to kill gold enemies for each assault rifle {keep in mind most assault rifles waste bullets because of accuracy//stability issues}.. The answer in the vast majority of cases is too many  -  ...

. 

***********
Edited to include Marksman HS bonus for Revenant X calculation and Replaced Extended Barrel With Scope for Vindicator X calculation
***********

Modifié par peddroelmz, 10 avril 2012 - 03:46 .

[Sabresandiego]

The mattock is indeed an excellent gun, if you are using some sort of firing macro. This may or may not be considered cheating.

[kiltysue]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Not quite sure how the talon gets an 8, seemed god awful to me when I used it, weak and heavy and too big bullet spread. Care to elaborate?

I also was on the side of viewing the talon as terrible.  The recent premium
packs threw a ton of arc pistol, and talon upgrades to me.  So having a a new
talon V, I decided to try it out.  On a drell vanguard with 30% pistol weight
reduction, you get 197% for cooldowns.  Which can give you a 1 second
cooldown on pull.  That looked interesting to me...

In a coordinated group, Sabresandiego's drell vanguard proves you don't
really need that super fast cooldown, and certainly it looks like the GPS is
superior.  But in random pugs?  I thought the cooldowns you get with the
talon on a drell were awesome.  1 or 2 shots will drop shields, which
allows pull.  1 second later, you get a charge detonation.

That talon really provided for a dynamic, charge heavy detonating
vanguard playstyle.  Lots of fun, so I concur with the higher rating.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Sabresandiego wrote...

These ratings are based on weapon performance on gold when used by an ideal class (example: black widow on infiltrator), weapon weight to performance, personal opinion, and other factors. These ratings are subject to change.

The ratings assume that weapons are of similar level (for example paladin 5 vs a carnifex 5). Many of the best guns seem lackluster at level 1, but really start to shine as they level up. Also of note is that weapons that fire a projectile such as the falcon and the scorpion are currently bugged so that they fire alot of blank shots unless you are the host of the game. Automatic weapons are generally terrible, unless you are Turian, because they do poor damage, usually have lower accuracy which forces you to use the sticking to walls cover mechanic thus making you less mobile, and they expose you to return fire. Sniper rifles are significantly more effective on infiltrators then other classes.

Best Weapons
10 Black Widow Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator) 
10 Geth Plasma Shotgun (Best Used By: Anyone, Drell) 
9.5 Valiant Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator) 
9.5 Falcon Assault Rifle Grenade Launcher (Best Used By: Anyone, Human Vanguard) 
9.5 Claymore Shotgun (Best Used By: Human Infiltrator, Quarian Engineer)  
9 Crusader Shotgun  (Best Used By: Infiltrator) 
9 Widow Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator, Salarian) 
9 Scorpion Heavy Pistol Sticky Grenade Launcher  (Best Used By: Anyone)     
9 Paladin Heavy Pistol  (Best Used By: Anyone, Asari)     
9 Carnifex Heavy Pistol (Best Used By: Anyone, Asari) 
8.5 Talon Heavy Pistol (Shotgun like) (Best Used By: Human Vanguard)   
8.5 Javelin Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator, Salarian)  
8 Viper Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator)    
8 Hornet Submachine Gun  (Best Used By: Anyone, Turian Soldier)   
8 Hurricane Submachine Gun (Best Used By: Human Infiltrator, Quarian Engineer, Turian Soldier)     
 
Good Weapons       
7.5 Saber Assault Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator, Soldier) 
7.5 Graal Spike Thrower Shotgun  (Best Used By: Infiltrator, Vanguard)  
7.5 Mantis Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrator, Salarian)   
7.5 Phalanx Heavy Pistol (Best Used By: Anyone) 
7 Eagle Heavy Pistol (Best Used By: Anyone) 
7 Wraith Shotgun (Best Used By: Anyone)   
7 Scimitar Shotgun  (Best Used By: Anyone)   
7 Revenant Assault Rifle (Only Used By: Turians)
7 Katana Shotgun (Best Used By: Anyone) 
7 Disciple Shotgun (Best Used By: Anyone)    
7 Vindicator Assault Rifle (Best Used By: Anyone) 
6.5-8.5 Mattock Assault Rifle (Best Used By: Anyone) 
6.5 Avenger Assault Rifle (Best Used By: Anyone) 
6-8 Raptor Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Anyone) 
 
Mediocre Weapons
6 Tempest Submachine Gun (Best Used By: Anyone) 
5.5 Eviscerator Shotgun (Best Used By: Anyone)  
5.5 Incisor Sniper Rifle (Best Used By: Infiltrators)   
5.5-7.5 Predator Heavy Pistol  (Best Used By: Anyone)  
5-7 Thor Arc Projector Heavy Pistol  (Best Used By: Anyone) 
5 Geth Pulse Assault Rifle (Best Used By: Anyone)  
5 Phaeston Assault Rifle   (Best Used By: Turians)
4.5 Locust Submachine Gun (Best Used By: Anyone) 
4.5 Shuriken Submachine Gun (Best Used By: Anyone) 

The semi-autos with a high fire rate such as raptor, mattock, arc pistol, and predator are 1-2 points higher then what I rated them if you don't mind spam clicking the fire button at an insane speed, or are using some kind of rapid fire feature on your mouse or gamepad. Because of the fact that it is extremely tedious to click fast enough to maximize these weapons potential, I rated them with a range.

I strongly disagree with you on a few of these. The bolded ones are the ones I think you rated lower than they should have been, while the underlined ones are the ones I think you overrated.

The Shuriken and Predator actually have some pretty decent DPS (especially with EB mods), lots of ammo, and more importantly, they're EXTREMELY light--with the right skill upgrades for Alliance Training (and its equivalents), they're literally weightless. This is a huge benefit for power-centric classes, or classes that mainly use a single, low-capacity heavy weapon and need a backup weapon.

The Locust is unquestionably the worst weapon, in my experience, as its DPS is so abysmal I'd rather be using an unmodded Predator 1 instead of a modded Locust 3.

Geth Pulse Rifle is only somewhat better; though it seems like it's bugged rather than purely underpowered.

Tempest is a very light, reliable, and effective backup weapon with a lot of ammo. Especially when used with AR or Marksman, it becomes a powerful weapon in its own right.

Incisor sucks, plain and simple. It fires in three round busts with significant recoil, making getting headshots consistently impossible, and the weapon's damage is pitiful already.

I've seen the Raptor be pretty devastating in the right hands. It's best used with a human soldier, as AR fits it best. It's also easy to get consistent headshots, provided the weapon isn't bugged.

Avenger X, combined with EB5 and Stability/AP/EM mods, becomes an extremely lightweight, versatile, and effective weapon for power-based builds. It can also function as a good backup weapon.

Mattock is pretty good if you get headshots with it; using a scope and stability mod, you can do this very rapidly.

The Phalanx is a great weapon for power-based builds and also functions excellently as a light backup weapon. It's accurate, powerful, good clip size, and plentiful ammo.

The Mantis X is essentially a lightweight, higher-capacity version of the Widow 2-3(ish); this alone makes it a great weapon, even for higher difficulties.

The Falcon is nowhere near that good, at least not anymore. On top of the frequent "projectiles dissapear" bug, it's rate of fire is very slow, and its damage is too poor to compensate. The Scorpion provides far better AoE damage and CC.

The Crusader is really not that good at all. It's essentially a perfectly accurate, scopeless sniper rifle. Sounds good in theory, but it sucks in practice. It's damage is subpar for a sniper rifle, and the thing weights an ABSURD amount. Additionally, the lack of a scope (or an equipable one) makes long range shots (and even medium range, sometimes) very difficult, especially since the crosshair covers up what you're trying to aim at.

[peddroelm]

Sabresandiego wrote...

The mattock is indeed an excellent gun, if you are using some sort of firing macro. This may or may not be considered cheating.

Macroed Mattlock X 4 round burst  (deadly accurate, 0 min refire delay) (can go extended barrel & scope)
117.8 * 4 = 471.2

Vindicator X 3 round burst (not so accurate burst, 0.25 min refire delay)  (needs stabilizer instead of extended barrel & scope)
78.0 * 3 = 234 (same upgrade category weapon)

Hypotetical Saber X  (0.75 min refire delay, heavy )
437.6

Why would anybody call that cheating 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 10 avril 2012 - 06:26 .

[TheGreatAshTree]

Having a level 3 BWS and a level 1 N7 Valiant, I'd have to give the edge to the Valiant with a damage and piercing mod. The faster reload time, higher capacity, significantly lower weight, and marginally the same damage and accuracy make it at least on par with the BWS, if not superior in the grand scheme of things.

[Sabresandiego]

I updated with preliminary ratings for new weapons.

[BaeBunni]

What about the geth? get can get 10% more geth weapon damage. Wouldn't that make the geth guns a bit better for them in general?

[Sabresandiego]

BaeBunni wrote...

What about the geth? get can get 10% more geth weapon damage. Wouldn't that make the geth guns a bit better for them in general?

Ya, havent gotten any geth chars yet.

[Elecbender]

Gasp!

The accuracy bonus from Hunter Mode greatly helps out the Claymore's spread while giving you a damage bonus as well. It won't be as accurate as the Turian Soldier's Marksman, but you can consistently use it at close to medium range.

As long as you get used to the vision.

[Sabresandiego]

I think the claymore has a tight enough spread with the accuracy mod alone.

[December Man]

The recent buff made the Geth Pulse Rifle so much better? Damn, I need to test it out then. I have it at V or VI.

[Sabresandiego]

The geth pulse rifle is quite good, on a geth. Especially if you aim for the head.

[RamsenC]

Try the Graal X on an Asari Vanguard against cerb. I don't think anything wrecks cerb as hard as that set up. Hard to use matters less when shooting enemies in stasis. However, the gun isn't impossible to get the hang of with or without stasis, just takes some practice. I think the Graal does 600 damage per shot at X uncharged as well, which isn't bad at all.

It's definitely worse against moving targets further out then the GPS. It depends how important headshots are to your strategy, but I prefer Graal on Krogan Vanguard, Battarians, and Asari Vanguard.

Modifié par RamsenC, 18 avril 2012 - 09:06 .

[cruc1al]

I would give Mattock a 9.5. Slap on an extended mag and a piercing/damage mod, and it is excellent at anywhere from close to long range. So versatile, so high DPS, decent against armor - there are no faults in the weapon, the only potential fault is that of the user who can't click fast enough to achieve 450 RPM. My weapon of choice on a caster class (>180% CD), Turian Sentinel and Geth CQC infiltrator.

Modifié par cruc1al, 18 avril 2012 - 10:19 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Sabresandiego wrote...

I think the claymore has a tight enough spread with the accuracy mod alone.

Does the accuracy bonus from hunter mode actually do anything when you have a smart choke V? If it does I can't really notice it.

Also I'd love to see a video or something of effective usage of the scorpion. I can see it being effective on the salarian engineer but other that I really don't know....

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 18 avril 2012 - 10:26 .