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[themaxzero]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Weapon DPM damage per minute (No Ammo Power) - Stats do not account for clip size, reload time, accuracy, synergy with class powers and other variables.

Hornet 63200
Argus 54425 (not in multiplayer, preorder item)
Raptor 48372
Chakram 46879
Falcon 45750
Vindicator 42460
Paladin 39400
Mattock 38542
Talon 36450
Shuriken 36245
Wraith 35880
Geth Plasma (Uncharged) 34709
Black Widow 34680
Revenant 34450
Incisor 34335
Scorpion 33760
Predator 33075
Phalanx 32287
Scimitar 31800
Claymore 31629
Saber 31480
Disciple 31230
Carnifex 31060
Tempest 26000
Katana 25950
Eviscerator 25896
Collectors 24900
Geth Pulse 21780
Avenger 21500
Phaeston 20200
Widow 19508
Viper 18063
Locust 16225
Mantis 13851

I know you had the disclaimer there but I should warn people who read this there are other factors involved.

Refire time is the big one. Hurts a lot of the rapid fire weapons, Raptor and Vindicator are big ones that are hit hard by this.

Also in addition the projectile weapons (Chakram, Scorpion, etc) are much harder to aim because the projectiles have a significant amount of travel time.

Technically the Hornet does not have a refire time but it does have an animation delay (you can't fire till the recoil on the previous shot is very and the recoil is massive).

Honestly the best weapon there, that is easily acquired and upgraded is....

....the Mattock. Bet you didn't see that coming?

The GPS is better (remember it shoots 3 'bullets' per shot, the 2nd and 3rd do 30% damage) but is rare.

In addition reload times actually balance a lot of the weapons (Shotguns and Sniper Rifles mainly). For example taking into account reload times/clip size brings the Wraith done to 22440 a minute.

Modifié par themaxzero, 02 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[Night Wraith]

I won't mess with the math but both times I beat gold with my infiltrator I was using the Viper. The ability to get more shots down range means a lot when you can't always one shot something. The widows penetration is wonderful though.

[themaxzero]

Night Wraith wrote...

I won't mess with the math but both times I beat gold with my infiltrator I was using the Viper. The ability to get more shots down range means a lot when you can't always one shot something. The widows penetration is wonderful though.

That's one of the factors that's hard to define.

I did a similiar calculation to the OP (although mine was more advanced and took into account reload/clip size *smug*) but how many times you actually stand still and fire non stop for a whole minute?

In Gold typically you in cover and you pop up, kill one or two, then go back down to recharge your shields (and often reload).

I would argue how much damage a weapon can do over 2-3 seconds before needed to duck behind cover would be a better measurement of how effective a gun is. In this sort of situation, weapons such as the Black Widow, Valiant (not in MP), Wraith, Talon, Carnifex, Paladin, Graal and GPS are very powerful. The problem is that every single weapon I have listed is either rare or ultra rare.

Modifié par themaxzero, 02 mars 2012 - 07:34 .

[Sabresandiego]

themaxzero wrote...

Night Wraith wrote...

I won't mess with the math but both times I beat gold with my infiltrator I was using the Viper. The ability to get more shots down range means a lot when you can't always one shot something. The widows penetration is wonderful though.

That's one of the factors that's hard to define.

I did a similiar calculation to the OP (although mine was more advanced and took into account reload/clip size *smug*) but how many times you actually stand still and fire non stop for a whole minute?

In Gold typically you in cover and you pop up, kill one or two, then go back down to recharge your shields (and often reload).

I would argue how much damage a weapon can do over 2-3 seconds before needed to duck behind cover would be a better measurement of how effective a gun is. In this sort of situation, weapons such as the Black Widow, Valiant (not in MP), Wraith, Talon, Carnifex, Paladin, Graal and GPS are very powerful. The problem is that every single weapon I have listed is either rare or ultra rare.

This is very true. And the rare weapons are that way for a reason

[ncknck]

The mattlock is a 450rof single click weapon. In other words 7.5 clicks per second. Go to this speed click test and try to reach a score of 75. I get 50, which should bring my Mattlock from expected 900dps to 600dps. Which is the dps of the Phalanx lol.


edit: same problem with Raptor, its 1200dps go down to 655dps. At least better than Phalanx.

Modifié par ncknck, 02 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[themaxzero]

ncknck wrote...

The mattlock is a 450rof single click weapon. In other words 7.5 clicks per second. Go to this speed click test and try to reach a score of 75. I get 50, which should bring my Mattlock from expected 900dps to 600dps. Which is the dps of the Phalanx lol.


edit: same problem with Raptor, its 1200dps go down to 655dps. At least better than Phalanx.

I got 60 from normal play 80 if I got fancy (repositioned mouse).

The Raptor's problem isn't it's RoF its the refire rate. The refire rate increase time per shot from 0.11 to 0.26. So you will only get 4 shots a second no matter how fast you click.

The moral of the story is that all of the best guns in each category are either rare or ultra rare. Mattocks, Vindicators, Phalanx, etc are just what you use now until you get something better.

[ncknck]

themaxzero
oh yes, youre right ofc. Tbh i didnt seriously look at the weapons, too many factors involved and we dont even have the full game info.

Modifié par ncknck, 02 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[themaxzero]

ncknck wrote...

themaxzero
oh yes, youre right ofc. Tbh i didnt seriously look at the weapons, too many factors involved and we dont even have the full game info.

Meh I think most of us are just waiting for the full game. Don't even play much MP anymore, no point.

All I want in the full game is my Salarian Inf (or Quarian) and a GPS.

[BelgarionNL]

whats the fastest way to unlock the weapons? I am 93 and I only have the widow/revenant/mattox unlocked that are come close to being usefull!

freaking die hard shotgunner with no claymore... freaking frustrating

Modifié par BelgarionNL, 02 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[Stardusk78]

? Black Widow Sniper Rifle 
10 Widow Sniper Rifle 
? Falcon Assault Rifle Grenade Launcher
? Geth Plasma Shotgun
? Graal Spike Thrower Shotgun 
9 Paladin Heavy Pistol 
9 Scorpion Heavy Pistol Sticky Grenade Launcher   
? Saber Assault Rifle
? Vindicator Assault Rifle   
? Chakram Assault Rifle  
? Javelin Sniper Rifle   
9 Carnifex Heavy Pistol 
7 Arc Projector Heavy Pistol 
7 Incisor Sniper Rifle
7 Mantis Sniper Rifle
7 Viper Sniper Rifle 
7 Raptor Sniper Rifle 
7 Geth Pulse Assault Rifle  
7 Collector Assault Rifle
7 Avenger Assault Rifle   
7 Hornet Submachine Gun
7 Scimitar Shotgun 
7 Disciple Shotgun 
6 Revenant (On a krogan) 
6 Mattock Assault Rifle 
6 Talon Heavy Pistol (Shotgun like)
6 Phalanx Heavy Pistol
6 Katana Shotgun
10 Claymore Shotgun
6 Wraith Shotgun
6 Tempest 
5 Eviscerator Shotgun
5 Phaeston Assault Rifle
5 Revenant (on human)
4 Predator
4 Shuriken
3 Locust

Honestly there are too many variables to consider. Sure the Widow is a 10 IF you are a good sniper and plenty of people are not. I cannot comment on weapons that are not available yet as well.

[A SILENT EMU]

I only did ones that were actually in the demo that I played with:

10 Carnifex Heavy Pistol
9 Mantis Sniper Rifle
9 Widow Sniper Rifle
8 Viper Sniper Rifle
8 Phalanx Heavy Pistol
8 Avenger Assault Rifle  
7 Mattock Assault Rifle
7 Katana Shotgun
7 Predator Heavy Pistol
6 Scimitar Shotgun
6 Claymore Shotgun
6 Revenant Assault Rifle
6 Tempest Submachine Gun
5 Hornet Submachine Gun
4 Shuriken Submachine Gun
3 Locust Submachine Gun

Modifié par A SILENT EMU, 03 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Dasher1010]

I think that we should actually play the game before judging weapons since we don't know how they handle yet. I'm looking forward to the Phaeston since the avenger's RoF was seriously nerfed and I want a fast-firing AR.

[Sabresandiego]

Dasher1010 wrote...

I think that we should actually play the game before judging weapons since we don't know how they handle yet. I'm looking forward to the Phaeston since the avenger's RoF was seriously nerfed and I want a fast-firing AR.

Thats true, but its also fun to theorize. I updated my ratings slightly since DPS numbers are now posted on the stat sheet.

[themaxzero]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

I think that we should actually play the game before judging weapons since we don't know how they handle yet. I'm looking forward to the Phaeston since the avenger's RoF was seriously nerfed and I want a fast-firing AR.

Thats true, but its also fun to theorize. I updated my ratings slightly since DPS numbers are now posted on the stat sheet.

It seems the sustained DPS still does not include refire rates. The Hurricane does not do 549 sustained DPS. Ignoring reloads it is 302.

I think the power of the Graal is pretty clearly shown. The scary thing is it can sustain that burst DPS for 3 whole shots, it's nuts.

Its even rare instead of ultra rare so you actually have a half decent shot at getting it.

In addition it seems people still don't know how the Geth Plasma Shotgun works.

It has two fire modes: instant and charge shot. Charge costs 2 ammo, instant 1. Both fire 3 projectiles. First projectile does full damage the next two do 30% of maximum damage.

Instant shot does 45% of maximum damage.

Mathmatically the GPS should have weaker sustained fire but insane burst.

The GPS burst should be 2285 (charged shot). The sustained is 679.

Modifié par themaxzero, 04 mars 2012 - 06:27 .

[Sabresandiego]

how do you find out if something is rare of ultra rare or what?

[themaxzero]

Sabresandiego wrote...

how do you find out if something is rare of ultra rare or what?

It's in the game files:

Rare:

Falcon
Revenant
Geth Assault Rifle
Thor (think it's the Arc Pistol)
Carnifex
Hornet
Graal
Claymore
Disciple
GPS
Widow

Ultra rare:

Scorpion
Javelin
Saber
Talon
Black Widow
Ivory (Paladin)
Striker (Wraith)

All other weapons are either common or uncommon ie fairly easy to get.

Modifié par themaxzero, 04 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[Sabresandiego]

Do you have to charge the graal before you can fire?

[themaxzero]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Do you have to charge the graal before you can fire?

Nope.

[Athenau]

The Graal is just nuts. I can't believe that the listed damage is for an uncharged shot. Other than that a couple of weapons stand out to me:

M-29 Incisor

This was trash in ME2, but it looks like a top tier weapon to me now. It's a better battle rifle than the Vindicator--nice DPS, excellent ammo efficiency with the capacity upgrade, light weight (tied for the lightest sniper rifle with the viper), perfect accuracy, and a ridiculously low accuracy fire penalty when zoomed (inherits the base SR value of .5), which means non-existent reticule bloom during a burst. It also (like the single shot snipers) has good synergy with the cloak cooldown. You burn through a magazine in 2 seconds and reload in 1.8. Cloak gives you 1 second from the moment you start firing before you decloak, and an additional 1.5 seconds of damage bonus after that. The cooldown timer starts as soon as you decloak, and with the minimum cooldown of 3 seconds that means cloak's ready again .2 seconds after you finish reloading, while you've gotten the maximum benefit from the damage bonus.

AT-12 Raider

The extremely fast ROF means you get 2 shots out almost instantly. An interesting alternative to the claymore, almost the same burst damage output with less weight and a faster reload.

M-15 Vindicator

The only assault rifle worth a damn, IMO. Very accurate, reasonable DPS (the refire hurts though), with good ammo efficiency out of the box.

Modifié par Athenau, 04 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[royard]

Athenau wrote...

The Graal is just nuts. I can't believe that the listed damage is for an uncharged shot. Other than that a couple of weapons stand out to me:

M-29 Incisor

This was trash in ME2, but it looks like a top tier weapon to me now. It's a better battle rifle than the Vindicator--nice DPS, excellent ammo efficiency with the capacity upgrade, light weight (tied for the lightest sniper rifle with the viper), perfect accuracy, and a ridiculously low accuracy fire penalty when zoomed (inherits the base SR value of .5), which means non-existent reticule bloom during a burst. It also (like the single shot snipers) has good synergy with the cloak cooldown. You burn through a magazine in 2 seconds and reload in 1.8. Cloak gives you 1 second from the moment you start firing before you decloak, and an additional 1.5 seconds of damage bonus after that. The cooldown timer starts as soon as you decloak, and with the minimum cooldown of 3 seconds that means cloak's ready again .2 seconds after you finish reloading, while you've gotten the maximum benefit from the damage bonus.

AT-12 Raider

The extremely fast ROF means you get 2 shots out almost instantly. An interesting alternative to the claymore, almost the same burst damage output with less weight and a faster reload.

M-15 Vindicator

The only assault rifle worth a damn, IMO. Very accurate, reasonable DPS (the refire hurts though), with good ammo efficiency out of the box.

Well, Incisor and Vindicator both have huge recoil when you zoom in.  I think you overlooked that. 

[Athenau]

Well, Incisor and Vindicator both have huge recoil when you zoom in. I think you overlooked that.

The Incisor has a zoom recoil of .437, which seems pretty average among the rifles. The Vindicator's is .7 which is on the high side, but I'm not too worried. Recoil is easy to compensate for if it's not random. I used the Revenant a lot in ME2 and with KB/M it was very manageable. If the recoil's like the ME2 tempest which just wandered all over the place then yeah...

On the other hand, you can't do anything about the accuracy penalty short of firing slower, so that's why I paid more attention to that.

Modifié par Athenau, 04 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[Shadow of Terror]

On the shotguns, I don't get how anybody cannot rate the GPS or the Wraith higher than any of the other shotguns (apart from disciple due to low weight).

Wraith is the same weight as the Katana and Scimitar as well as the Eviscerator (which is better than the fist 2), yet deals far more damage per shot, pretty much making a 1 kit kill far more likely. The reason I mention the weight is because currently the weight of these guns allow charge to be recharge by the time you have charged and have double nova'd.

The GPS is a lighter claymore, that has 5 shots in, not 1. Unless the damage is charged up only, then in that case what is uncharged? Even then, Claymore on the first shot and a Eviscerator after that? Yes please.

[tytanowy]

Can someone explain me what refire rate is ? I guess it's time between 2 bullets weapon shoots right ?
When we have ROF given (like for eg. 600 bullets per minute) why do we need refire rate property?

[kotli]

Pistols

Predator: 8
Phalanx: 8
Carnifex: 10

Shotguns

Katana: 8
Scimitar: ??
Claymore: 5

Submachine Guns

Shuriken: 3
Tempest: 3
Locust: 1
Hornet: 2

Snipers

Viper: 2
Mantis: 5
Widow: 6

Assault Rifles

Avenger: 4?
Mattock: 5?
Revenant: ?

^ My ratings based on demo experince, Carnfix gets 10 due to high damage and usefulness vs anything at any range and it good clip size. When you got a Scope for it it becomes the best sniper gun in game after the widow IMO. SMGs are next to useless low damage and have trouble hitting stuff due to **** poor acc, only useful at really short range.
^ Shotguns get 5+ due to the fact that the do high damage in a single shot making them good CQC weapons for Infs, who get a big damage boost from Cloak for their first shot.
Assault Rifles seem to be around 4/5 mark as again damage is low, though it may be because I need better modes for them to see there real power.

Edit to tytanowy I think they mean an average ROF rate inculding reload time by that.

Modifié par kotli, 04 mars 2012 - 04:55 .

[themaxzero]

tytanowy wrote...

Can someone explain me what refire rate is ? I guess it's time between 2 bullets weapon shoots right ?
When we have ROF given (like for eg. 600 bullets per minute) why do we need refire rate property?

Its a forced delay between shots. Basically it slows down your rate of fire. For guns that shoot multiple shots per burst (Vindicator) its not too bad. If you are using 1 shot burst weapon it can be crippling though. For example the Raptor is ruined by it. On ROF alone the Raptor shoots a bullet every 0.1 seconds (600 a min). When refire of 0.15 is added in it  then shoots a bullet every 0.25 seconds (240 a min). You can see how big a difference it makes