315 réponses à ce sujet

[MewtwoJosh]

Can i ask what makes the black widow so good?

[DarthVarner]

Fires nearly as fast as the Viper (so headshots / cloak bonuses are far better while cutting reload/miss downtime significantly), while doing 2-3x more damage. Notably, the entire clip can be dumped well within the +damage cloak bonus.

Per clip, it pumps out more hurt than the Widow.

With a leveled infiltrator, the Black Widow is death incarnate.

[themaxzero]

DarthVarner wrote...

Fires nearly as fast as the Viper (so headshots / cloak bonuses are far better while cutting reload/miss downtime significantly), while doing 2-3x more damage. Notably, the entire clip can be dumped well within the +damage cloak bonus.

Per clip, it pumps out more hurt than the Widow.

With a leveled infiltrator, the Black Widow is death incarnate.

Assuming by completely you mean 1-2 shots per Cloak. It takes 2 seconds to empty it's clip, so it' cant be done in one Cloak.

Modifié par themaxzero, 05 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[Athenau]

Assuming by completely you mean 1-2 shots per Cloak. It takes 2 seconds to empty it's clip, so it' cant be done in one Cloak.

It can. The damage bonus lasts longer than in ME2. It's 2.5 seconds total as I mentioned (1 second from the time you start firing until you decloak, an additional 1.5 seconds after that). I've tested this with fraps and Virtualdub to get frame accurate timing. In a 60 fps capture I've gotten the damage bonus 144 frames after I first start firing which is almost 2.5 seconds. Also, the skill data for cloak has two parameters that control this:

bonusremovaldelay = 1.5
mintimebeforecancel=1

[royard]

Athenau wrote...

Assuming by completely you mean 1-2 shots per Cloak. It takes 2 seconds to empty it's clip, so it' cant be done in one Cloak.

It can. The damage bonus lasts longer than in ME2. It's 2.5 seconds total as I mentioned (1 second from the time you start firing until you decloak, an additional 1.5 seconds after that). I've tested this with fraps and Virtualdub to get frame accurate timing. In a 60 fps capture I've gotten the damage bonus 144 frames after I first start firing which is almost 2.5 seconds. Also, the skill data for cloak has two parameters that control this:

bonusremovaldelay = 1.5
mintimebeforecancel=1

I'm really not sure about these two.  Specifically, "mintimebeforecancel" seems to be the minimum time before you can turn your cloak off by pressing the cloak button again.  Otherwise, the programmers just used two parameters to do one thing.  I could be wrong, but I find it highly unlikely that they have two numbers for one thing.  Why not have 2.5 seconds and call it a day?

Also, how do you know you have the bonus 144 frames after?  I mean, the bars are really deceptive. 

[Athenau]

I'm really not sure about these two. Specifically, "mintimebeforecancel" seems to be the minimum time before you can turn your cloak off by pressing the cloak button again. Otherwise, the programmers just used two parameters to do one thing. I could be wrong, but I find it highly unlikely that they have two numbers for one thing. Why not have 2.5 seconds and call it a day?

They don't do the same thing. Mintimebeforecancel is the minimum time your cloak lasts before getting canceled. I.e, no matter what you do, cloak will always last at least one second, even if you break it immediately after activation. Bonusremovaldelay is the additional time you get the damage bonus from the moment you decloak and the cooldown timer starts ticking. At this point you're uncloaked (so enemies are going to start firing on you again) but you still get the extra damage.

Also, how do you know you have the bonus 144 frames after? I mean, the bars are really deceptive.

It took some experimentation, but with the Mattock I on Bronze one body shot would consistently do one bar of damage to an assault trooper, but with the 90% cloak bonus it would always do two. So I recorded a few trials and stepped through the video with Virtualdub, frame by frame. A shot fired 144 frames after the frame where I opened fire to break cloak did two bars of damage. Note all these trials were conducted from full health, so there's no possibility of bar "rollover" from previous shots giving misleading results due to rounding.

[royard]

Athenau wrote...

I'm really not sure about these two. Specifically, "mintimebeforecancel" seems to be the minimum time before you can turn your cloak off by pressing the cloak button again. Otherwise, the programmers just used two parameters to do one thing. I could be wrong, but I find it highly unlikely that they have two numbers for one thing. Why not have 2.5 seconds and call it a day?

They don't do the same thing. Mintimebeforecancel is the minimum time your cloak lasts before getting canceled. I.e, no matter what you do, cloak will always last at least one second, even if you break it immediately after activation. Bonusremovaldelay is the additional time you get the damage bonus from the moment you decloak and the cooldown timer starts ticking. At this point you're uncloaked (so enemies are going to start firing on you again) but you still get the extra damage.

Also, how do you know you have the bonus 144 frames after? I mean, the bars are really deceptive.

It took some experimentation, but with the Mattock I on Bronze one body shot would consistently do one bar of damage to an assault trooper, but with the 90% cloak bonus it would always do two. So I recorded a few trials and stepped through the video with Virtualdub, frame by frame. A shot fired 144 frames after the frame where I opened fire to break cloak did two bars of damage. Note all these trials were conducted from full health, so there's no possibility of bar "rollover" from previous shots giving misleading results due to rounding.

Ah, I see.  Thanks for spreading the knowledge!

[themaxzero]

So 3 shots from a GPS or Graal with a 90% damage bonus?

lolbalance.

Modifié par themaxzero, 05 mars 2012 - 05:28 .

[Athenau]

Yeah, someone at Bioware really likes infiltrators I guess.

[Gutgore]

Who doesn't

[Sabresandiego]

I updated my weapon ratings

[mysticforce42]

I unlocked the Incisor and so far I am extremely unimpressed.

The kick on that thing is ungodly - if you want to land a headshot at mid range AND land all three shots, you have to aim at the chest or lower so that the kick sends the 3rd shot into the target's head.

The damage is pretty low as well - from cloak, it takes 2 shots (6 bullets) to kill a Centurion on Bronze. Maybe it'd be useful with maximum stability mods, but that'd mean forgoing more useful mods.

At the moment I'd give it a 5 - useable for stripping shields, but not very good if you want to actually kill something.

Modifié par mysticforce42, 08 mars 2012 - 03:27 .

[Athenau]

The incisor had more kick than I was expecting, but not not nearly as bad as the Hornet. I was able to manage the recoil enough at max mouse sensitivity to land headshots with all three rounds at mid range. Still annoying though.

I gave the Raptor a shot and it's clear that something has changed with the refire mechanic. It fires at 6-6.5 rounds per second. The Saber also fires about twice as fast as it should given the refire.

In ME2 the time per burst was (numShotsPerBurst * 60/ROF + minRefire). From my testing I'm guessing the new formula is (numShotsPerBurst - 1)*60/ROF + max[minRefire, 60/ROF], i.e the refire timer starts counting down as soon as the last shot leaves the barrel as opposed to waiting for the ROF timer to expire.

For semi-auto weapons this mean the real time per shot is max[minRefire, 60/ROF], i.e the longest is the limiting factor. So for the Raptor the real peak ROF is 1/.15 = 6.67 rounds per second and the Saber is 1/.75 = 1.33 rounds per second.

To give you an idea of the difference it makes, I'll post the dps numbers with the old formula (what the spreadsheet uses) and the new:

Raptor: 377/651
Saber: 292/583

The beefy semi-auto rifles are clearly MUCH better than we thought. Hurrah!

[royard]

Athenau wrote...

The incisor had more kick than I was expecting, but not not nearly as bad as the Hornet. I was able to manage the recoil enough at max mouse sensitivity to land headshots with all three rounds at mid range. Still annoying though.

I gave the Raptor a shot and it's clear that something has changed with the refire mechanic. It fires at 6-6.5 rounds per second. The Saber also fires about twice as fast as it should given the refire.

In ME2 the time per burst was (numShotsPerBurst * 60/ROF + minRefire). From my testing I'm guessing the new formula is (numShotsPerBurst - 1)*60/ROF + max[minRefire, 60/ROF], i.e the refire timer starts counting down as soon as the last shot leaves the barrel as opposed to waiting for the ROF timer to expire.

For semi-auto weapons this mean the real time per shot is max[minRefire, 60/ROF], i.e the longest is the limiting factor. So for the Raptor the real peak ROF is 1/.15 = 6.67 rounds per second and the Saber is 1/.75 = 1.33 rounds per second.

To give you an idea of the difference it makes, I'll post the dps numbers with the old formula (what the spreadsheet uses) and the new:

Raptor: 377/651
Saber: 292/583

The beefy semi-auto rifles are clearly MUCH better than we thought. Hurrah!

Well, I suppose our debate can come to an end, then. 

Did they really change the refire formula?  I find it really strange to have two stats governing the same thing, especially with semiautos.  But raptor does seems to fire much faster than the old formula indicates. 

[SovereignWillReturn]

Falcon=0

[mastirkal]

I have to put in the 99 saber is one of the most powerful guns in the game. It is a slightly weakened shot gun with long range compatibility and a very large single shot clip. It's ****ing deadly people, it's not a infiltrators gun but a sentinel or a solider using it is pure carnage.

[Ender1221]

I went with raptor for my Quarian Infiltrator and it was great on Silver, but horrible on Gold.

[Athenau]

Did they really change the refire formula? I find it really strange to have two stats governing the same thing, especially with semiautos. But raptor does seems to fire much faster than the old formula indicates.

Yes, for semi-auto weapons refire is totally redundant. I don't know why they didn't just set the ROF on the Saber and Raptor accordingly instead of adding a refire, my guess was that it was probably just a developer oversight--maybe someone on their team thought you had to set both?

[BloodClaw95]

Javelin is fun, but I'm not cut out to be a sniper.

[Sabresandiego]

Updated this list again, please add comments.

[Sabresandiego]

Ender1221 wrote...

I went with raptor for my Quarian Infiltrator and it was great on Silver, but horrible on Gold.

What made it horrible for you?

[ZombiesNBacon]

Sabresandiego wrote...

For Turian Sentinel if you're overload spamming you probably want to keep it light, same goes for Human Engineer.

"Krogan Soldier or Krogan Sentinel:
-Falcon + Graal
-Falcon + Claymore"
May as well add Geth Plasma Shotgun to that list?

"5 Hornet" why? The recoil is horrible may as well be a 1-2, same goes for Revenant.

"4 Arc" I'm not sure if this is true but I read somewhere if you spam it, it's possibly the highest DPS in the game.

I'm a little suprised to see Viper higher than Mantis.

Also if it's not too much you could add the weapon rarities.

Modifié par ZombiesNBacon, 13 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[Unionhack]

I don't know about the Locust being so low. I love the Locust; it's my go to SMG. Yeah, I don't have too many of them, but it's still a very nice weapon to have. Especially with bigger heatsink/chance to not use up a clip.

[Zyrusticae]

The Eviscerator is a GODLY weapon in the hands of a Turian Soldier (with damage and accuracy mods).

Take your average shotgun, then decrease the spread on it by roughly 75%. Throw marksman on top to turn it into what is basically a slug-firing shotgun that does massive damage on par with the best sniper rifles. The accuracy on this thing is insane! Just imagine, for a second, being able to fire all 8 of your shotgun pellets directly into your victims' skulls! That is what the Eviscerator can do for you.

I've also had some fun messing around with the Hornet, but even with the soldier stability bonus it is simply far too unwieldy for anything other than CQB. Still, it has the highest potential DPS out of all the burst-fire weapons in the game (yes, ALL of them), so it can be pretty rewarding if you can somehow compensate for the kick. But that's not going to happen, because it's pretty much impossible to do so. Still, it's worth it for the novelty of taking out enemies in the space of a few bursts. I wonder if the stability improves with higher ranks...

[MartialArtsSurfer]

Mass Effect 2 dps chart --can we have someone update the stats/make a version for Mass Effect 3 to see what changed?

this can be a general guide for weapons that weren't updated

http://masseffect.wi...omparison_Chart