305 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Origins took 5 years to complete.

DA2 didn't even sell close to it.

I do not know where you're getting your "info" from.

The thing is however that DA:O cost Bioware around twice, or even three times as much money to develop then Origins did due the 5 years it took. Game budgets do account for salaries you have to pay btw.

I am pretty sure Origins sold twice as much as DA2, or close to that figure, so in the end the profit they gained compared to how much they spent was pretty much the same for both games.

Yeah just they would probably have sold less of DA2 if not for DA:O. Many people were hyped because of DA:O. So if you want a real comparision you have to take into account what DA:O did to the DA2 sales and what DA2 may do to the DA3 sales.

[Catsith]

teh_619 wrote...

Catsith wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

DA2 and TOR already failed.

This might sell decently at first. If it's as bad as it seems, it'll die out really quickly.

Heh. Hate to break it to you, but DA2 was quite commercially successful. And ME3 will have very long legs due to the multiplayer, which has been getting rave reviews.

DA2 didn't even sell well compared to DA:O.

Incorrect. The budget and dev time for DA:O was exponentially higher than DA2. There's a reason DA2 was rushed out so fast after DA:O, and thankfully DA2 made a nice quick profit for them, otherwise the franchise would've been killed off completely.

Mass Effect is in a similar situation. ME2 did not meet EA's sales expectations at all, which is why they are going all out with the Kinect, the Multiplayer, the day one DLC, etc. We'll see what happens, but I am confident than ME3 will be a pretty big hit, and the multiplayer will really add to the longevity.

[Chromie]

teh_619 wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...


I do not know where you're getting your "info" from.

Calm down man. I'm just saying for the time and lack of effort put into DA2 it made a **** ton of money. 

It also alienated the old fans from IP and failed to attract a new audience.

It made a profit, since the game had little development cost and due to advertising.
In the long run, I wouldn't call that a success.

DA2 was a commercial success. What this does though, like you said, is alienate old fans and will most likely lower sales for Dragon Age 3.

[Texhnolyze101]

AlexXIV wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

ME3 is going to sell a lot of copy's no matter what anyone says but ME4 might not be so lucky plus i can't wait to see how much DA3 sells when its released i don't intend to buy it though im hoping it fails and the IP killed off.

I don't actually know why it would be good if the IP killed off. I am pissed because of DA2 but I like the universe/franchise as such. They have created a great world and it would be sad if we lost it. However, I for one wish DA3 would mostly ignore DA2 tbh. I also wish I could import save game info directly from DA:O to DA3 and let Hawke be Hawke without having to play DA2 again.

I rather it just die than be ruined even more also the save import for DA was kinda pointless if every DA game is suppose to have a new protag the only reason it was added is because ME has it.

[AlexXIV]

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

ME3 is going to sell a lot of copy's no matter what anyone says but ME4 might not be so lucky plus i can't wait to see how much DA3 sells when its released i don't intend to buy it though im hoping it fails and the IP killed off.

I don't actually know why it would be good if the IP killed off. I am pissed because of DA2 but I like the universe/franchise as such. They have created a great world and it would be sad if we lost it. However, I for one with DA3 would mostly ignore DA2 tbh. I also wish I could import save game info directly from DA:O to DA3 and let Hawke be Hawke without having to play DA2 again.

I'd be inclined to revisit Jade Empire, especially after playing KOA with it's much more action based fighting system.

I would not touch a Hawke based DA3.

Still wondering if I should give KoA a shot. But honestly, what I hear about the story is less than a selling argument. A couple of years ago I would still jump on any RPG no matter how bad it is. But I have come to look more on quality after a long row of disappointment especially on the story and character side of games. I find it kind of funny that they get a writer like R.A. Salvatore and then make a game that is mostly slapped for the story.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[teh_619]

Ringo12 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

teh_619 wrote...


I do not know where you're getting your "info" from.

Calm down man. I'm just saying for the time and lack of effort put into DA2 it made a **** ton of money. 

It also alienated the old fans from IP and failed to attract a new audience.

It made a profit, since the game had little development cost and due to advertising.
In the long run, I wouldn't call that a success.

DA2 was a commercial success. What this does though, like you said, is alienate old fans and will most likely lower sales for Dragon Age 3.

We agree.

[Darthsam]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Origins took 5 years to complete.

DA2 didn't even sell close to it.

I do not know where you're getting your "info" from.

The thing is however that DA:O cost Bioware around twice, or even three times as much money to develop then Origins did due the 5 years it took. Game budgets do account for salaries you have to pay btw.

I am pretty sure Origins sold twice as much as DA2, or close to that figure, so in the end the profit they gained compared to how much they spent was pretty much the same for both games.

Thats the worst part, like i said the carppiness of DA2 is not a mistake, it was intended to be that way, they made a crap but they know they can make as much money at least in short run,  the fail of DA2 means Bioware lost the respect of their own name and reputation.

[Chromie]

AlexXIV wrote...

Still wondering if I should give KoA a shot. But honestly, what I hear about the story is less than a selling argument. A couple of years ago I would still jump on any RPG no matter how bad it is. But I have come to look more on quality after a long row of disappointment especially on the story and character side of games. I find it kind of funny that they get a writer like R.A. Salvatore and then make a game that is mostly slapped for the story.

Yea I never found him to be so great. KoA at full price imo is not worth it. One it drops definitely get it.

Darthsam wrote...


Thats the worst part, like i said the carppiness of DA2 is not a mistake, it was intended to be that way, they made a crap but they know they can make as much money at least in short run,  the fail of DA2 means Bioware lost the respect of their own name and reputation. 

 

Dragon Age 2 was totally a EA move. It was EA clearly trying to capitalize on the good name of both Bioware and Dragon Age.

Modifié par Ringo12, 29 février 2012 - 12:35 .

[Pappi]

They make that cowboy steampunk game I have always wanted? Wishful thinking? Or Changeling?

[Darthsam]

AlexXIV wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

ME3 is going to sell a lot of copy's no matter what anyone says but ME4 might not be so lucky plus i can't wait to see how much DA3 sells when its released i don't intend to buy it though im hoping it fails and the IP killed off.

I don't actually know why it would be good if the IP killed off. I am pissed because of DA2 but I like the universe/franchise as such. They have created a great world and it would be sad if we lost it. However, I for one with DA3 would mostly ignore DA2 tbh. I also wish I could import save game info directly from DA:O to DA3 and let Hawke be Hawke without having to play DA2 again.

I'd be inclined to revisit Jade Empire, especially after playing KOA with it's much more action based fighting system.

I would not touch a Hawke based DA3.

Still wondering if I should give KoA a shot. But honestly, what I hear about the story is less than a selling argument. A couple of years ago I would still jump on any RPG no matter how bad it is. But I have come to look more on quality after a long row of disappointment especially on the story and character side of games. I find it kind of funny that they get a writer like R.A. Salvatore and then make a game that is mostly slapped for the story.

KOA is a horrible RPG, but a good Action-Adventure game with RPG elements.

[RedWulfi]

Doubt bioware will get lazy on this. They have A LOT of fans breathing down their necks, lol! I don't expect it to be perfect because hey, everyone has different standards.

[Texhnolyze101]

Ringo12 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Still wondering if I should give KoA a shot. But honestly, what I hear about the story is less than a selling argument. A couple of years ago I would still jump on any RPG no matter how bad it is. But I have come to look more on quality after a long row of disappointment especially on the story and character side of games. I find it kind of funny that they get a writer like R.A. Salvatore and then make a game that is mostly slapped for the story.

Yea I never found him to be so great. KoA at full price imo is not worth it. One it drops definitely get it.

Darthsam wrote...


Thats the worst part, like i said the carppiness of DA2 is not a mistake, it was intended to be that way, they made a crap but they know they can make as much money at least in short run,  the fail of DA2 means Bioware lost the respect of their own name and reputation. 

 

Dragon Age 2 was totally a EA move. It was EA clearly trying to capitalize on the good of both Bioware and Dragon Age.

^ This definitely

[AkiKishi]

AlexXIV wrote...
Still wondering if I should give KoA a shot. But honestly, what I hear about the story is less than a selling argument. A couple of years ago I would still jump on any RPG no matter how bad it is. But I have come to look more on quality after a long row of disappointment especially on the story and character side of games. I find it kind of funny that they get a writer like R.A. Salvatore and then make a game that is mostly slapped for the story.

I enjoyed the story , but then I'm familiar with the Irish mythology. It's good enough for a sandbox game I'd say. The real joy of the game is in the exploring and hands on combat system.

KOA is a very solid skeleton that could have been fleshed out more in any number of ways. For example, the engine has no problem supporting companions, but they never added any. Like any sand box game you spend a lot of time away from the "story".

The faction quests are really good too, but I stopped doing the sidequests around half way. Took me 60 hours to finish the game as a Mage and as an ArchMage I kicked much ass. The Rogue and Warrior combat is very different and I will replay it at some point and finish up the trophies.

[Swordfishtrombone]

I don't get the negativity, so I don't bother to read most of the threads in the ME3 forums, and don't even visit the spoiler forum (because, well, I don't want any spoilers!). It's an interesting phenomena this pre-launch venom-fest. I haven't even downloaded the demo, as I want to get a fresh take on the game when I load it up the first time. Looking forward to it.

I don't remember the negativity being quite as bad prior to DA2 - though as I understand it, there was a bit of that for MA2 (I didn't get around to playing the MA series untill MA2 had been out for a while).

DA2 was rushed, and though overall, I enjoyed it, it didn't live up to DA:O's promise. The very short development time showed. So the venom, or at least some of it, was deserved there - even though I thought it went overboard. Maybe that experience has primed these boards to expect a similar disappointment with new titiles; I just hope that this negative expectation doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy. We humans are all too succeptible to confirmation bias - once we get an idea in our heads, we look for evidence to support it, and mostly ignore evidence against it.

That is why, I at least, prefer not to form any firm expectations this time around, and will take it as it comes, and then see what my experience is like.

[Rune-Chan]

Financially or critically?

Financially it's probably in profit just by pre-order sales, so I doubt they'll be worried.
Critically they will claim we are all wrong for not liking it and give us lot's of PR BS to say why we are not allowed to dislike it.

That's not to say I think it will fail. I am pre-ordering the Collectors Edition and am very much looking forward to it. I just don't have a lot of respect for Bioware's... attitude?

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 29 février 2012 - 12:37 .

[Costin_Razvan]

But the sales don't even come close. Overall Bethesda "wins".

Not really. Sure Skyrim has sold around 7-8 million copies since it was released so far, but lets see what Bioware did in the years since Oblivion launched to the launch of Skyrim, and a few months after that.

ME1 - 3 million copies, roughly.
ME2 - 4 million copies, roughly. ( ME1+2 sold over 7 million )
DA:O - 3-4 million copies.
DA:A - A few hundred thousand? Perhaps one million.
DA2 - 2 million copies.
SWTOR - 2-3 million copies so far.

Even with Fallout 3 being counted here, which I'd guess sold 5-6 million copies, Bioware still sold more games and made more money then Bethesda.

If I add ME3 to that equation, a game that will very likely sell over 4 million this year and up the numbers of Skryim sales to 10-12 million ( to what I expect it to get in 2012 ) then Bioware still comes on top.

Also this is without consideirng the active subsciptions of TOR, which are over 2 million and are making EA a LOT of money.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 février 2012 - 12:39 .

[AkiKishi]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But the sales don't even come close. Overall Bethesda "wins".

Not really. Sure Skyrim has sold around 7-8 million copies since it was released so far, but lets see what Bioware did in the years since Oblivion launched to the launch of Skyrim, and a few months after that.

ME1 - 3 million copies, roughly.
ME2 - 4 million copies, roughly. ( ME1+2 sold over 7 million )
DA:O - 3-4 million copies.
DA:A - A few hundred thousand? Perhaps one million.
DA2 - 2 million copies.
SWTOR - 2-3 million copies so far.

Even with Fallout 3 being counted here, which I'd guess sold 5-6 million copies, Bioware still sold more games and made more money then Bethesda.

If I add ME3 to that equation, a game that will very likely sell over 4 million this year and up the numbers of Skryim sales to 10-12 million ( to what I expect it to get in 2012 ) then Bioware still comes on top.

Also this is without consideirng the active subsciptions of TOR, which are over 2 million and are making EA a LOT of money.

I don't care enough to argue it , but I will say you are leaving a lot of Bethesda stuff out of those calculations.

[Srefanius]

ME3 won't fail. I didn't look into spoilers and I won't do it, but bsn is such a whining board I give a damn about all this. On the other hand my expectations are a bit shattered cause if you hear this whining for weeks it affects you slowly. But lower expectations are a good thing, cause the game will be good enough to satisfy me even more (my strong believe).

[Perkocet13]

we can't say the game is going to be awful outright, even when we havn't played it in its full capacity, its not fair to judge it before we looked at it completely, i'll reserve my judgement march 6th.

Modifié par Perkocet13, 29 février 2012 - 12:43 .

[Chromie]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But the sales don't even come close. Overall Bethesda "wins".

Not really. Sure Skyrim has sold around 7-8 million copies since it was released so far, but lets see what Bioware did in the years since Oblivion launched to the launch of Skyrim, and a few months after that.

ME1 - 3 million copies, roughly.
ME2 - 4 million copies, roughly. ( ME1+2 sold over 7 million )
DA:O - 3-4 million copies.
DA:A - A few hundred thousand? Perhaps one million.
DA2 - 2 million copies.
SWTOR - 2-3 million copies so far.

Even with Fallout 3 being counted here, which I'd guess sold 5-6 million copies, Bioware still sold more games and made more money then Bethesda.

If I add ME3 to that equation, a game that will very likely sell over 4 million this year and up the numbers of Skryim sales to 10-12 million ( to what I expect it to get in 2012 ) then Bioware still comes on top.

Also this is without consideirng the active subsciptions of TOR, which are over 2 million and are making EA a LOT of money.

Old Republic sold 2 million and had 1.7 million subs as of Janurary that's the only confirmed number.  
http://www.destructo...rs-220955.phtml 

And Skyrim has sold 10 million and this is from Janurary. Skyrim already has a price drop and had a sale so who knows how many more have been sold.

http://www.1up.com/d...try?bId=9093883 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Deganis76 wrote...

OP: The odds of ME3 failing are low. http://www.gamespot.com/news/mass-effect-3-preorders-well-ahead-of-mass-effect-2-6351101

Don't believe the "rage" in BSN. Game forums, BSN especially, are an echo chamber that tends to spotlight the most vocal (who are often the most implacable) gamers. The silent majority (those who quietly purchase and enjoy the game) are often not captured on gaming forums.

DA2 also had a metric s***ton of pre-orders.

Get the people to buy your product...What happens after is the interesting bit.

[AlexXIV]

Well everything I hear about the game is mostly good. The only bad thing I have spotted being discussed are the leaked endings which are sort of pov and also not clear if the guys who leaked it catched them all already.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 février 2012 - 12:46 .

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't care enough to argue it , but I will say you are leaving a lot of Bethesda stuff out of those calculations.

What games did Bethesda Softworks develop? I am not talking of studios under Bethesda that made stuff like Rage or Brink.

But if you want to go there, sure, since Bioware is a division of EA. Want me to add all the games EA develops ( not publishes ) and their sales over Bethesda sales? Hell I can just add the recent Battlefield games ( Bad Company, Bad Company 2 and BF3 ) and still have EA come on top.

 
And Skyrim has sold 10 million and this is from Janurary. Skyrim already has a price drop and had a sale so who knows how many more have been sold. 

Shipped doesn't mean sold Ringo.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 février 2012 - 12:48 .

[teh_619]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But the sales don't even come close. Overall Bethesda "wins".

Not really. Sure Skyrim has sold around 7-8 million copies since it was released so far, but lets see what Bioware did in the years since Oblivion launched to the launch of Skyrim, and a few months after that.

ME1 - 3 million copies, roughly.
ME2 - 4 million copies, roughly. ( ME1+2 sold over 7 million )
DA:O - 3-4 million copies.
DA:A - A few hundred thousand? Perhaps one million.
DA2 - 2 million copies.
SWTOR - 2-3 million copies so far.

Even with Fallout 3 being counted here, which I'd guess sold 5-6 million copies, Bioware still sold more games and made more money then Bethesda.

If I add ME3 to that equation, a game that will very likely sell over 4 million this year and up the numbers of Skryim sales to 10-12 million ( to what I expect it to get in 2012 ) then Bioware still comes on top.

Also this is without consideirng the active subsciptions of TOR, which are over 2 million and are making EA a LOT of money.

Bethesda also published:

Oblivion
WET
Rogue warrior
Brink
Hunted
Rage
Fallout New vegas

between 2006-2012 besides Falliut 3 and skyrim.

EDIT: Skyrim sold that much on LAUNCH only and I'm not so sure about those TOR and DA2 sales.

Modifié par teh_619, 29 février 2012 - 12:48 .

[teh_619]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Deganis76 wrote...

OP: The odds of ME3 failing are low. http://www.gamespot.com/news/mass-effect-3-preorders-well-ahead-of-mass-effect-2-6351101

Don't believe the "rage" in BSN. Game forums, BSN especially, are an echo chamber that tends to spotlight the most vocal (who are often the most implacable) gamers. The silent majority (those who quietly purchase and enjoy the game) are often not captured on gaming forums.

DA2 also had a metric s***ton of pre-orders.

Get the people to buy your product...What happens after is the interesting bit.

Quite true. Advertising alone won't save the game.