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[Xilizhra]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Er...I'm hesitant to accept anything in reference to player characters, due to the amount of lorebending and lorebreaking that's inherent in such associations.

Mary Kirby confirmed somewhere on the forums that Mages can become a part of the Ben-Hassrath.

In what context, though. I mean, a police dog is still part of a police force, even if they're on a leash.

Not very useful. Chained Saarebas are pure military muscle, and are extremely conspicuous. As the Ben-Hassrath are basically a secret police, one of their mages would need to look like any other qunari.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Xilizhra wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Er...I'm hesitant to accept anything in reference to player characters, due to the amount of lorebending and lorebreaking that's inherent in such associations.

Mary Kirby confirmed somewhere on the forums that Mages can become a part of the Ben-Hassrath.

In what context, though. I mean, a police dog is still part of a police force, even if they're on a leash.

Not very useful. Chained Saarebas are pure military muscle, and are extremely conspicuous. As the Ben-Hassrath are basically a secret police, one of their mages would need to look like any other qunari.

Mages in general are conspicuous. It's not a subtle profession. And they have no other purpose, in that extreme utilitiarian way of viewing things, than to belt out magic. They're likely brought in by the Ben-Hassrath when they end up specifically needing that military muscle. Someone needs to kick down the dissenters' doors, KGB -style (but with more flare).

Making the Qunari have more and more exceptions just sounds like a retcon to make the militaristic culture sound more palatable.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 01 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[Xilizhra]

Making the Qunari have more and more exceptions just sounds like a retcon to make the militaristic culture sound more palatable.

The entire purpose of Mark of the Assassin, explicitly retconning women never fighting and giving possible outs in other matters, such as the bits with the qunari also having internal division.

[TEWR]

The entire purpose of Mark of the Assassin, explicitly retconning women never fighting and giving possible outs in other matters, such as the bits with the qunari also having internal division.

Mark of the Assassin didn't retcon anything, as Gaider confirmed long ago before MotA was made/thought up -- and before DAII was even released -- that the Ben-Hassrath do recruit women.

I also had a brief back-and-forth with Gaider where he confirmed my suspicions that the Qunari define fighting very differently and rigidly.

I'll dig up both links.

http://social.biowar...ndex/8487288/14

That's one

http://social.biowar...ex/4394184&lf=8

There's the other.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[Xilizhra]

Mark of the Assassin didn't retcon anything, as Gaider confirmed long ago before MotA was made -- and before DAII was even released -- that the Ben-Hassrath do recruit women.

Showing it off in-game then?

[TEWR]

Yea, it was just made known in-game what he said long ago

[Rifneno]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Better Orlais than the Qunari.

This. A thousand times, this! I'd side with the frickin' darkspawn over the Qunari.

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe, but Orlais is far closer and more immediately threatening. We have no real evidence that the qunari are even planning something major for the near future; the Arishok just says that they'll return "one day."

Actually we do. Remember what Sten says at the end of DAO. He hopes when the Qunari invades that he hopes not to meet the Warden on the battlefield. So they're not only planning another invasion, they plan to begin it within this generation.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Hawke simply should have been allowed to kill Tallis at the end of the DLC.

Or at least try to, instead of saying 'I should kill you for this' and doing nothing when Tallis shrugs and walks.

Although granted Bioware would probably get screamed at if they pulled the 'You tried, but she's still alive' card again after Witch Hunt.

And Legacy. Does anybody really believe that Corypheus is dead?

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Not worth it at all. The Chantry is better because it is hypocritical in its zealotry. They can't be convinced out of it and are more capable of change because their actions do not always reflect their dogma. The Qunari are not. If you are a mage, you will be chained, gagged, and enslaved. If you question anything, you will be sent to a work camp. No exceptions, ergo no chance for them to change, as their dogma and their actions match up to a terrifying extent.

Probably to do with whatever brainwashing they use. Which is another reason that the Qunari are worse. The Qun is a cancer against free will itself.

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, of those qunari who talk to Hawke extensively, the only one who makes a big deal about mages just plain existing is the Arvaraad, whose role involves keeping mages locked down, thus benefiting from having that mentality drilled into him. And I consider player characters to be part of the world regardless.

Go back and talk to the Arishok in Act I after doing the Petrice quest. There's an option to tell him about what happened and 'admit' that you killed Arvaraad. The Arishok says that the only important thing is that the mage is dead. So there's two Qunari who spew their hateraide at mages. I don't recall any extended conversation with any other Qunari in DA2 (minus MoTA).

And while it's not talking to Hawke, again remember Sten. He was one hateful mutant. Remember when he loses approval as you go into the Fade to rescue Connor? Not because it was risky leaving for a week (he does it on entering the Fade rather than on choosing to leave for Kinloch Hold) but because "Pfft. Magic." ... Things like that are why I leave him in his cage.

[Cismontane]

Yes, and if you took Sten to the circle tower, he asks to confirm that this is "your prison for mages".. whereupon he says that ours isn't nearly as grand or pleasant. He positively looks smug when Greagoir said that sometimes he thinks that maybe the Qunari have the "right idea" about mages. He can also be heard to say elsewhere that he wished Fereldan's had "proper" views toward magic. He pretty clearly hates mages.

[Xilizhra]

Actually we do. Remember what Sten says at the end of DAO. He hopes when the Qunari invades that he hopes not to meet the Warden on the battlefield. So they're not only planning another invasion, they plan to begin it within this generation.

Right, but it's Hawke making this decision, not the Warden.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually we do. Remember what Sten says at the end of DAO. He hopes when the Qunari invades that he hopes not to meet the Warden on the battlefield. So they're not only planning another invasion, they plan to begin it within this generation.

Right, but it's Hawke making this decision, not the Warden.

Ahh, sorry I forgot this is about Hawke's choice (or lack of choice) in MoTA.  We do so much metagaming morality debates.. hehe

[CrimsonZephyr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually we do. Remember what Sten says at the end of DAO. He hopes when the Qunari invades that he hopes not to meet the Warden on the battlefield. So they're not only planning another invasion, they plan to begin it within this generation.

Right, but it's Hawke making this decision, not the Warden.

Yes, and the same Hawke who just drove a Qunari force from Kirkwall would be fine with a Qunari agent absconding with a list of names of agents just waiting to undermine the defenses of every nation in Thedas.

No, that Hawke, he has no experience with Qunari aggression.

[Xilizhra]

It may make more sense for MotA to take place in Act 1, where Hawke might actually want a big jewel for its monetary value and to be highly inexperienced with the qunari.

Though my Act 3 rationale was that Tallis was screwing with a qunari plot to liquidate their own agents and will likely have other qunari trying to kill her now.

[Heimdall]

I did it act 2. My Hawke's rationale was more a desire to get out of the city for awhile in light of the Antivan Crow Assassins. She let Tallis take the list because she had some remaining, if slightly naive, hope for a peaceful resolution with the Qunari.

[Cismontane]

Hopefully, hawke will be able to hunt Tallis and the other members of the spy network, in a future DLC