12 réponses à ce sujet

[darth_lopez]

Zuerst spreche ich duetsch nicht so gut, weil ich  das Sprache noch immer lerne. Aber ich kann ein bisschen sprechen.

Ich studiere Nomenphrasen und ich habe eine Frage über 'Der, Die, Das' + einen Name. Kann man sagt die Phrase "Der Lopez", wenn man spricht über eine Person? Ob man diese Phrase sagen könnte, wann man die benutzen würde? Wie normal ist die?

tut mir leid, dass Mein duetsch  nicht so gut ist.

Auf English

I'm studying noun phrases and i have a question about "der, die, das"+ a Name. Can one say the phrase "Der lopez" if one is speaking about a person? If one can say this phrase, when would one use it? How normal is it?

sorry if my german is bad :/

danke schön

edit: man müsst auch ein Muttersprachler von Deutsch sein um zu antworten.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 29 février 2012 - 04:30 .

[Rabenkopf]

First: Sprachwissenschaflter not Wissensprachenschaftler when you mean linguists.
Second: Only when it is clear who "Der Lopez" is. And only male. it is the same like "The Lopez"...

Modifié par Not_Zero, 29 février 2012 - 04:19 .

[darth_lopez]

Not_Zero wrote...

First: Sprachwissenschaflter not Wissensprachenschaftler when you mean linguists.
Second: Only when it is clear who "Der Lopez" is. And only male. it is the same like "The Lopez"...

Thank you i'll fix that,

can you have adjectives come between the article and the name like "der alte Lopez"? to clerify phrases like this don't occur in english regularly. I've noticed some occurance and i'm looking into those i'm trying to get cross linguistic data on the subject though. (granted this is informal and for a midterm)

Modifié par darth_lopez, 29 février 2012 - 04:31 .

[Rabenkopf]

Yes, cou can.
in this topic german and english aren't that much different. Der alte Lopez and The old Lopez have the same rules. But I say it again: "Der" only for male.

Modifié par Not_Zero, 29 février 2012 - 04:43 .

[Forst1999]

Yes, you can put adjectives between the article and the name. For example if you say in english "I'm visiting old Lopez", in german that would be "Ich besuche den alten Lopez". You can't even build this sentence without the article.

[darth_lopez]

interesting, so it's not like "that lopez" or "That old lopez"?

[darth_lopez]

Forst1999 wrote...

Yes, you can put adjectives between the article and the name. For example if you say in english "I'm visiting old Lopez", in german that would be "Ich besuche den alten Lopez". You can't even build this sentence without the article.

very interesting indeed, so "Ich besuche alten Lopez" would be ungrammatical? what about just "Ich besuche Lopez"?

Modifié par darth_lopez, 29 février 2012 - 04:46 .

[Forst1999]

darth_lopez wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

Yes, you can put adjectives between the article and the name. For example if you say in english "I'm visiting old Lopez", in german that would be "Ich besuche den alten Lopez". You can't even build this sentence without the article.

very interesting indeed, so "Ich besuche alten Lopez" would be ungrammatical? what about just "Ich besuche Lopez"?

Yes, "Ich besuche alten Lopez" is wrong. But just "Ich besuche Lopez" is correct. "Ich besuche den Lopez" would be a bit uncommon, but it's not incorrect.

[darth_lopez]

Very very interesting, we do not have that in english, if things like "the old john" are grammatical (it sounds like it could be) it's incredibly Uncommon. You could say "That old John" or "That John" like "That (old) john is a funny guy" or "that john knows his stuff" but not "the john knows his stuff".

"that" in these cases is being used like a demonstrative i believe. But the german article in these instences is not being used demonstratively? And if a name were preceded by any adjective in general it would require the Article?

Modifié par darth_lopez, 29 février 2012 - 04:59 .

[Forst1999]

darth_lopez wrote...

Very very interesting, we do not have that in english, if things like "the old john" are grammatical (it sounds like it could be) it's incredibly Uncommon. You could say "That old John" or "That John" like "That (old) john is a funny guy" or "that john knows his stuff" but not "the john knows his stuff".

"That old John is a funny guy" can be translated with "Der alte John ist ein lustiger Kerl", but you could also say "Dieser alte John is a funny guy". Means pretty much the same.
Actual Bioware example. Did you ever take Sten to the Fade in DA:O? The illusions of his Qunari friends say "Don't bother the Sten" and you can ask why they call him "the" Sten, which reveals that it is more of a rank than a name. In german that scene doesn't work so well, as the article in this situation isn't uncommon.

"that" in these cases is being used like a demonstrative i believe. But the german article in these instences is not being used demonstratively? And if a name were preceded by any adjective in general it would require the Article?

Sorry, i am no linguist. I guess it's mostly used as a demostrative, but i'm not very sure about all this stuff. The "Der" in "Der John ist ein lustiger Kerl" just is a pretty useless filler word. If you wanted to differentiate this John from another John who isn't a funny guy/"lustiger Kerl", you would rather say "Dieser John ist ein lustiger Kerl".
But yes, if a name is proceeded by an acjective, it is treated like any noun and requires an article (in singular).

Modifié par Forst1999, 29 février 2012 - 05:28 .

[darth_lopez]

Forst1999 wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Very very interesting, we do not have that in english, if things like "the old john" are grammatical (it sounds like it could be) it's incredibly Uncommon. You could say "That old John" or "That John" like "That (old) john is a funny guy" or "that john knows his stuff" but not "the john knows his stuff".

"That old John is a funny guy" can be translated with "Der alte John ist ein lustiger Kerl", but you could also say "Dieser alte John is a funny guy". Means pretty much the same.
Actual Bioware example. Did you ever take Sten to the Fade in DA:O? The illusions of his Qunari friends say "Don't bother the Sten" and you can ask why they call him "the" Sten, which reveals that it is more of a rank than a name. In german that scene doesn't work so well, as the article in this situation isn't uncommon.

The use of "the Sten" there is actually what i'm looking into I've noticed recently that alot of the people i talk to have said similar things and it shouldn't be gramatical but we do it and it makes sense. But it Normally only Occurs with nicknames or pett names for close friends or family is what i've noticed and it might not be widespread, like "How's the jamie?" or "How's the Goose (a nickname)" "How's the Dan" when refering to a person. This would otherwise be ungramatical or unnacceptable at least. UNless as you said it refers to a Rank or Title or other noun.

"that" in these cases is being used like a demonstrative i believe. But the german article in these instences is not being used demonstratively? And if a name were preceded by any adjective in general it would require the Article?

Sorry, i am no linguist. I guess it's mostly used as a demostrative, but i'm not very sure about all this stuff. The "Der" in "Der John ist ein lustiger Kerl" just is a pretty useless filler word. If you wanted to differentiate this John from another John who isn't a funny guy/"lustiger Kerl", you would rather say "Dieser John ist ein lustiger Kerl".
But yes, if a name is proceeded by an acjective, it is treated like any noun and requires an article (in singular).

I see so it's pretty much just a filler word? no real meaning in those cases?

Modifié par darth_lopez, 29 février 2012 - 05:54 .

[Forst1999]

darth_lopez wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

Very very interesting, we do not have that in english, if things like "the old john" are grammatical (it sounds like it could be) it's incredibly Uncommon. You could say "That old John" or "That John" like "That (old) john is a funny guy" or "that john knows his stuff" but not "the john knows his stuff".

"That old John is a funny guy" can be translated with "Der alte John ist ein lustiger Kerl", but you could also say "Dieser alte John is a funny guy". Means pretty much the same.
Actual Bioware example. Did you ever take Sten to the Fade in DA:O? The illusions of his Qunari friends say "Don't bother the Sten" and you can ask why they call him "the" Sten, which reveals that it is more of a rank than a name. In german that scene doesn't work so well, as the article in this situation isn't uncommon.

The use of "the Sten" there is actually what i'm looking into I've noticed recently that alot of the people i talk to have said similar things and it shouldn't be gramatical but we do it and it makes sense. But it Normally only Occurs with nicknames or pett names for close friends or family is what i've noticed and it might not be widespread, like "How's the jamie?" or "How's the Goose (a nickname)" "How's the Dan" when refering to a person. This would otherwise be ungramatical or unnacceptable at least. UNless as you said it refers to a Rank or Title or other noun.

It's quite common with pets' or little childrens' names now that i think about it. Also nicknames. But it's not restricted to this cases. Something like "Die Merkel ist die erste weibliche Kanzlerin" (The Merkel is the first female Chacellor) is used too. Or "Ich have Mathe beim* Schneider"  (I have math classes by Schneider). 
*short for "bei dem"

"that" in these cases is being used like a demonstrative i believe. But the german article in these instences is not being used demonstratively? And if a name were preceded by any adjective in general it would require the Article?

Sorry, i am no linguist. I guess it's mostly used as a demostrative, but i'm not very sure about all this stuff. The "Der" in "Der John ist ein lustiger Kerl" just is a pretty useless filler word. If you wanted to differentiate this John from another John who isn't a funny guy/"lustiger Kerl", you would rather say "Dieser John ist ein lustiger Kerl".
But yes, if a name is proceeded by an acjective, it is treated like any noun and requires an article (in singular).

I see so it's pretty much just a filler word? no real meaning in those cases?

Pretty much, yeah. You have to use it if there is also an article, but otherwise it's filler.

Modifié par Forst1999, 29 février 2012 - 06:07 .

[darth_lopez]

Forst1999 wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...


The use of "the Sten" there is actually what i'm looking into I've noticed recently that alot of the people i talk to have said similar things and it shouldn't be gramatical but we do it and it makes sense. But it Normally only Occurs with nicknames or pett names for close friends or family is what i've noticed and it might not be widespread, like "How's the jamie?" or "How's the Goose (a nickname)" "How's the Dan" when refering to a person. This would otherwise be ungramatical or unnacceptable at least. UNless as you said it refers to a Rank or Title or other noun.

It's quite common with pets' or little childrens' names now that i think about it. Also nicknames. But it's not restricted to this cases. Something like "Die Merkel ist die erste weibliche Kanzlerin" (The Merkel is the first female Chacellor) is used too. Or "Ich have Mathe beim* Schneider"  (I have math classes by Schneider). 
*short for "bei dem"

I'm looking at that in my midterm paper too because it directly affects how some sentences are read puts case value on prepositions which implies there's a case phrase over the noun phrase to some extent (syntax gets wierd sometimes)

"that" in these cases is being used like a demonstrative i believe. But the german article in these instences is not being used demonstratively? And if a name were preceded by any adjective in general it would require the Article?

Sorry, i am no linguist. I guess it's mostly used as a demostrative, but i'm not very sure about all this stuff. The "Der" in "Der John ist ein lustiger Kerl" just is a pretty useless filler word. If you wanted to differentiate this John from another John who isn't a funny guy/"lustiger Kerl", you would rather say "Dieser John ist ein lustiger Kerl".
But yes, if a name is proceeded by an acjective, it is treated like any noun and requires an article (in singular).

I see so it's pretty much just a filler word? no real meaning in those cases?

Pretty much, yeah. You have to use it if there is also an article, but otherwise it's filler.

that is very helpful actually thank you ^^