19 réponses à ce sujet

[v0rt3x22]

Just wanted to say Kudos to BioWare about the Site Rule changes - I think its great! 

[Stanley Woo]

Thanks for the comment, Valkyre4, and I can see how it might sound a bit arrogant, but over the last couple of years, we've seen a general attitude shift from the BSN being a special place where people actually got to chat with game developers to a place with a tremendous amount of negativity and people taking our developers for granted, to the point of hurling abuse at them or otherwise showing disrespect. This has made the BSN a place that developers try to avoid.

We're hoping to change that with this change. We're no longer going to be your punching bags, we're no longer going to accept abuse or disrespect. people are still, as in the past, free to disagree with us, dislike us, and criticize us. No, it is even more important that people do it with maturity and civility, just as we've requested all along.

For the vast majority of our fans, there will be little to no difference. We've been very grateful to have such awesome fans who we can chat with about our games, even disagree with each other and debate various game features and systems. That will not change. it's only the worst elements of fandom that we'd prefer to not have disrupting your community experience. And may, just maybe, it will encourage more developers to come by and have a chat with y'all.

[John Epler]

bobobo878 wrote...

I just hope that the mods will tread lightly in implementing these new changes. I can understand the need to put an end to the Hepler bashing and all those "Why did f***ing Mr. Woo close my topic." threads, but recognizing harassment between community members takes a delicate touch. What looks like a mean spirited flaming to an observer could actually be a lighthearted inside joke. I just hope that they won't ban anyone for harassing other community members without actually talking to the person who the allegedly harassed.

Well, by and large, we tend to lean on the 'warning' side of things more than straight out banning. Accidents might happen, sure, but unless it's something rather clear cut (and I'm sure we've all seen examples where it's quite obviously harrassment), it shouldn't really affect anyone. Honestly, this is more a codification of rules we've always followed - it just makes it more apparent that insults and personal attacks are not tolerated.

[John Epler]

HiroVoid wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

I'm hoping this means a stricter and more heavily moderated BSN. If it were up to me, I would swing the banhammer very liberally and on an hourly basis.

I'm sure you'd appreciate the flak from every news outlet out there for locking tons of people out of their games then.   Can also do a lot of things for a company's reputation as well as losing potential customers.

Bans should just lock you out of posting on the boards... not your DLC or EA account. Whatchuonabout?

http://www.pcgamer.c...s-out-of-games/

This applies to this site as well, and it's my major issue with bannings.  Posting here is a priviledge.  Being able to play your game that you paid for should not be.

Any bans done by us are forum-only bans. They shouldn't have any effect on your ability to play games.

[Stanley Woo]

I would like to encourage all of you who are on board with the new rules--and even someo f those who aren't--to help us out as we go forward with the BioWare Social Network. instead of just hitting the REPORT THIS POST button when you see trouble, take the time to message a Moderator or two and link them to the trouble also. That way, we get immediate reports of trouble and can get to them quickly. Lead by example, folks, and show the newbies what it means to be a member of the BioWare Social Network.

now I'm not talking about narcing on folks and tattling, but keep us informed if you see trouble or potential trouble in the threads you visit regularly. the more support we get from you guys, the less likely it'll be that we'll get overwhelmed and perhaps judge someone a little too harshly.

We do understand that people form friendships and little cliques and have their inside jokes and lightheartedly poke fun of each other, but if we don't understand something like that, we'll check. EternalAmbiguity gets poked quite often in one of the Off-Topic threads, but the second he comes to me and says he'd like it to stop or be toned down, we'll make sure it stops or gets toned down.

And don't worry, a ban here is only for the BioWare Social Network; it should have no connection with your game access. i don't even think we can do that here, and that only EA Community has that kind of ability.

[John Epler]

BomimoDK wrote...

I'm in on that. But what is your policy regarding timed bans? is a ban permanent or is it done incrementally increasing bits of time up till an inevitable permaban? I'm not one to cross a line but i'd like to have a chance to come back if i did. People tend to cool down or learn after going overboard... or a few do.

By and large, unless it's for a serious offense (blatant racism, posting of pornography or other images that are considered unacceptable, posting links to pirated software), we tend towards 24-hour bans. As mentioned, there are exceptions, but unless you're consistently and regularly hostile on the forums you probably won't end up banned permanently.

[John Epler]

rolson00 wrote...

perhaps the site managers could put up something that tells people which mods are online like a twitter feed, only biofeed?

That's a good suggestion! I can talk to the site gurus about implementing something like this in the future - however, for the time being, I suggest messaging myself or Stan, as I tend to have the forums running on my second monitor and notifications about PMs go straight to my work inbox (which, if I'm at the office, I'll always see).

[John Epler]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So I can't keep my signature anymore? It was the nicest thing ever said to me.

I recommend putting it on a plaque and then hanging that above your desk. Motivational!

[John Epler]

simfamSP wrote...

Though I respect the action taken, and I seriously believe the forum needs a good scare (if communities aren't well managed then things are bound to get out of control, especially with the internet) I'm afraid that mods and staff alike will take it to far, to the point where we'd spend half an hour trying to think of the 'right words.'

But I have faith in the moderators and the staff to be able to point out a 'heated discussion' from obviously bashing, flaming, trolling etc...

I have high hopes that the future of the BSN, with this force applied, will be a better place. Alot of people - inlcuding me - let the anonymity and the freedom of speech get to their heads.

And that's a fair concern to have. Though I think that, by and large, we tend to be pretty receptive to feedback about moderation (unless it's of the WHY ARE YOU TURNING THIS FORUM INTO NORTH KOREA genre). By and large, most users won't notice a difference. As I said, we've been enforcing the 'no personal insults' rule for a while now, and all this really does is codify it. We want the BSN to be a place where people can interact and discuss our games with each other and with developers, and ensure that everyone can feel free to participate without worrying about being insulted or attacked.

[Stanley Woo]

Naughty Bear wrote...

Posting a smily in your post should be adequate enough to know your joking.

I hate you.

ULTRABANNED from playing all your games, including board games and card games! All your Magic cards are belong to me!

I kid, I kid. Yes, smileys often help, and if people were more in the habit of alerting us to trouble--again, using private messages to Moderators instead of or in addition to hitting the REPORT THIS POST button--we would have a much better idea of what you guys are like and what your tolerances and preferences are when it comes to trouble or disagreeable people.

[Stanley Woo]

Naughty Bear wrote...

I try to avoid swearing as that seems to be the quickest route to getting a ban. Or making a concern about something specific in the game.

This forum annoys me alot, some people fear of posting their own opinions incase they get flamed and accused of being  'troll'.

Like i said, it's specific members that do this and continue to get away with it.

Usually, they "continue to get away with it" because we don't see the trouble they're starting. Making sure we are directly alerted to the problem may help with this in the future. Dismissing arguments by calling people "Biodrones," "trolls," or "fanboys" isn't productive.

Also, more people should lead by example. Don't get involved in a lot of back-and-forths. At some point, respectfully agree to disagree and move to a new topic. Don't respond to spam and troll threads, even with "reported" or "inb4lock" type posts (those are pet peeves of mine). Your time is better spent notifying a Moderator. And I personally really enjoy seeing threads where community members help each other out: directing newbies to an existing thread on a topic, telling them what a dev has said on a given topic, sharing their knowledge and expertise, that sort of thing. That's what our community used to be in the past and what we'd like it to be in the future.

People don't need to put us on a pedestal or be timid about "bothering us with forum issues." Like John Epler, I have the forums open on a second monitor so I can quickly deal with issues when they come up, and I refresh and check for messages a couple times throughout the day. I am also often checking in on weekends or my days off. And since I don't sleep, I'm often on late at night. So you guys have a lot of support.

But once again, we would love it if you guys also supported each other and helped each other out, too. as my signature says, "Be excellent to each other."

[Stanley Woo]

Timbaroo wrote...

Smileys - The ultimate in protection against a big fat banhammer xD

Actually, i think I would say that sincerity is the ultimate protection against a banhammer. Because tone can be difficult to read sometimes in a text-only medium, the less sarcastic you are, the more likely it is that people will understand your tone. in real life, like in film, people can pick up on subtle cues and inflections, but in forums, like on stage, you have to exaggerate your movements and expressions a bit so as to be clear to everyone, even the guy in Moose Jaw.

i don't know if you've noticed, but when I'm being facetious in the forums, I tend to exaggerate it so fewer people misunderstand my tone.

[Stanley Woo]

Timbaroo wrote...

Basically, I just want to be warned if a mod thinks that I'm being malicious to another, when in fact I'm making jests with pals. I don't want to be banned "without warning", because I have been an active member on this site for 2 years now. Because really, I don't post on forums unless I've seen my friends have. In which case, I'm either trying tocontribute to the topic, or trying to give my friend (*cough*Smecky*cough*) a good burn. It's out of affection :')

We're not dodoheads either, Timbaroo. We can often recognize playful jest. I've been Chris Priestly's "sidekick" and "jest target" since I started with this company 11 years ago, and John Epler and I often trade witty barbs (mine are, of course, much wittier).

Unless you act like a real jerkface all the time, you'll get a warning, at least.

[Stanley Woo]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Hm.. I wonder how much longer I'll be around now..

Depends on your attitude towards these changes and how much you want to stay. Really, how long someone stays in our community is completely up to them.

[John Epler]

Jerakal wrote...

I can't wait for this rule to be used to ban people for "Any and all criticism against Bioware or it's employees."

Everything is fine, everyone loves you.

Watch this post for edits, kids!

Please. If we were going to do that, we would've done so a lot sooner. All the rule changes do is codify an existing policy, where those who are unable to remain civil and polite are given warnings and then banned. We have this idea that people should be able to discuss our games and post feedback both positive and negative without having to worry about being flamed, berated or otherwise insulted. I know people like to wring their hands and cry 'dear me, it's like 1984!' but, truth be told, we always had the ability to censor debate if we wanted to. We don't. Never have, never will.

Once again, all these new rules are doing is codifying something that is both A) already a policy and should be a matter of common sense and courtesy. Hell, I -love- criticism - when it's properly and rationally presented. I love engaging in discussions about game mechanics, and there are names I will actively seek out when replying becuase they offer some of the best discussion, about half of whom tend towards the 'negative' side of feedback.

But. If you can't stay polite, if you can't stay civil, you aren't welcome on these forums. If that's censorship to you, so be it. This isn't a free for all, nor should it be. We want a community of people who can disagree without resorting to name calling and petty bickering. And, hopefully, making it explicit that we don't tolerate certain behaviour will be the first step towards making this a more inviting and welcoming place for consumers and developers alike.

[Stanley Woo]

JasonRocker wrote...

Is it normal to be nervous everytime you post?

It is if you tend to be combative or insulting when disagreeing with someone. It is if you tend towards swearing, hyperbolic language, strawmen, and ad hominems when stating your case. it is if you have a history of being warned or temporarily banned, or if you are using an alternate account because your main has been permanently banned.

In short, if you are here to cause trouble, you should be nervous. But we Moderators are always around to ask questions of, to clarify our rules, to explain our actions, and generally to keep the community running smoothly. As John said, very little has actually changed. We've just added a klaxon and blinky lights to rules we've always had.

[Stanley Woo]

BaronIveagh wrote...

It sort of went from 'Be Excellent to Each Other' to 'Big Mod Is Watching!  Remember! Game unlike is thoughtcrime!  Contact MiniTrue for Infodump.  Your Papers MUST be in order to post!"

From my perspective, it went from whispering "Hey, guys, if you could maybe kind of tone down the personal attacks a tad, that'd be greatly appreciated, okay? Hey, thanks a bunch, sorry to disturb your conversation." to shouting "Hey! Cut it out!" Same enforcement, lower tolerance for edge cases and repeat offensers.

[Fernando Melo]

The thread is to discuss the new site rules - love'em, hate'em, etc. Continuing down the path of discussing each other will result in the new rules being applied. Sort it out and get it back on topic.

[John Epler]

JasonRocker wrote...

I believe the new forum rules while are invented to stop abuse from community members against each other, from insulting each other and the mod's. However from reading this thread community member's still do it just in a very civil manner. From my knowledge people still got bans before this was placed into effect. I know so, because I read thread's complaining about the person being banned.

This is an online gaming forum to have a messgae stating that they will kick you out for this, and this. It's coming across a little less friendly, and no less when Mass Effect 3 is supposed to be released. I honestly don't insult other poster's, or am rude to staff. It seem's like to me that certain abuse

The mod's may have been getting from a small mintority of people, they became frustrated and do this on the majority. I'm just curious what the gaming website's what will have to report on this or what EA will respond or how since they are merged with Bioware, a problem with one site could lead to issues to another.

I've been around the forums as a staff member for about a year and a half, now (I joined up when information about DA2 started to percolate) and, prior to that, I was on the old BioWare forums as a member (this was before I started working at BioWare).

It's a minority of people who are in violation of this rule, but - here's the important part - they can be a highly vocal minority. They're the group that will make multiple alt accounts after the first one gets banned because, to them, firing off vitriolic statements against other members and against BioWare staff is more important than, I don't know, making a sandwich? Doing something constructive, at least.

But, to address your last point - this has always been something we enforce on the majority. Don't want to get banned for it? Don't insult other people. Make your poitn without resorting to name calling and other 'tactics' that are completely unproductive, and your posting will be allowed to continue exactly as it has previously. Yes, it's the minority that made it necessary to articulate this - but it's always applied to everyone. We've always banned for personal attacks, and us explicitly stating this to be the case isn't going to suddenly change how we moderate. However, it does now explicitly state this to be the case, and while, sure, some people will cry '1984! The mods are downright Orwellian!', we've no plans on suddenly instituting a harsh crackdown on dissent where we only allow posts praising the Glorious Republic of BioWaristan.

However, some people do love their hyperbole, and as long as they keep it civil, hey, it's their quarter.

[John Epler]

Doctalen wrote...

A member of the bioware forum becoming an employee? I'd love to hear that story 

Mostly just a big ol' fan of BioWare games who posted a lot in University and then, after University, applied to work here and was lucky enough to get hired. I guarantee you that no one who was a mod back then would have any idea as to who I was.