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Kudos to Site Rule changes


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#26
Arcadian Legend

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Smecky Kitteh wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I just hope that the mods will tread lightly in implementing these new changes. I can understand the need to put an end to the Hepler bashing and all those "Why did f***ing Mr. Woo close my topic." threads, but recognizing harassment between community members takes a delicate touch. What looks like a mean spirited flaming to an observer could actually be a lighthearted inside joke. I just hope that they won't ban anyone for harassing other community members without actually talking to the person who the allegedly harassed.


This. Some of the people on here poke fun at each other in a light hearted way and i'd hate to see a mod take it out of context and perma ban someone/me. :pinched:


I think I remember a mod saying that in the event of a misunderstanding a permaban can be lifted. That was a while ago. Can a mod clarify?

#27
Naughty Bear

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Thanks for the comment, Valkyre4, and I can see how it might sound a bit arrogant, but over the last couple of years, we've seen a general attitude shift from the BSN being a special place where people actually got to chat with game developers to a place with a tremendous amount of negativity and people taking our developers for granted, to the point of hurling abuse at them or otherwise showing disrespect. This has made the BSN a place that developers try to avoid.

We're hoping to change that with this change. We're no longer going to be your punching bags, we're no longer going to accept abuse or disrespect. people are still, as in the past, free to disagree with us, dislike us, and criticize us.
No, it is even more important that people do it with maturity and civility, just as we've requested all along. :)

For the vast majority of our fans, there will be little to no difference. We've been very grateful to have such awesome fans who we can chat with about our games, even disagree with each other and debate various game features and systems. That will not change. it's only the worst elements of fandom that we'd prefer to not have disrupting your community experience. And may, just maybe, it will encourage more developers to come by and have a chat with y'all.


And what are the chances of this being abused? No offence but sure many peope here just go over the top but members here do get banned for simple things, and with no way to challenge and overturn the decision. I trust you guys but not when my access to the games i purchased are at stake.

Chris is my main problem, i have seen him throw bans everywhere. Many are justified but some are because some member made a lame but humourous joke about Bioware or it's products.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 29 février 2012 - 07:15 .


#28
Guest_Hainkpe_*

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What it comes down to is, we are allowed to be here. BSN belongs to Bioware and they have the right to say what goes and what does not. It's their house. Their rules. The line has been drawn and now you have a choice to abide by the rules and stay or not and move on.

It was along time in coming. I appreciate it and I hope the community changes for the better. Being civil and respectful is a choice in behavior. You have to make the best choice for you.

Thank you Bioware and mods.

#29
Valkyre4

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Thanks for the comment, Valkyre4, and I can see how it might sound a bit arrogant, but over the last couple of years, we've seen a general attitude shift from the BSN being a special place where people actually got to chat with game developers to a place with a tremendous amount of negativity and people taking our developers for granted, to the point of hurling abuse at them or otherwise showing disrespect. This has made the BSN a place that developers try to avoid.

We're hoping to change that with this change. We're no longer going to be your punching bags, we're no longer going to accept abuse or disrespect. people are still, as in the past, free to disagree with us, dislike us, and criticize us. No, it is even more important that people do it with maturity and civility, just as we've requested all along. :)

For the vast majority of our fans, there will be little to no difference. We've been very grateful to have such awesome fans who we can chat with about our games, even disagree with each other and debate various game features and systems. That will not change. it's only the worst elements of fandom that we'd prefer to not have disrupting your community experience. And may, just maybe, it will encourage more developers to come by and have a chat with y'all.


Like I said Stanley, I do agree and I do understand why these rules had to be implemented. I dont question that as an action. It is just that the wording used, I believe, was not ideal and they needed to hear it like this. For some members, yeah it was ideal, but for the majority of this community, I believe it was not.

I can understand that it is not a dev's job to come out here and speak. I know most of that you guys are doing it just to be closer with the fans. But you need to also be aware that we are here everyday as well. Waiting to hear more from you, learn about our favorite games. Sometimes things go out of hand. Sure action needs to be taken. But in all honesty I think a lot of the negativity could also be avoided by Bioware staff and moderators, by simply replying in some hot topics when they can of course.

I believe a lot of negativity errupts when some topics/questions that could be answered, are not. For example, the PS3 framerate issue about ME3. Yes you told us that you are looking into it. But look at it from our point of view. We have preordered CEs (which cost a lot btw) and we need to know if we are investing on the right system or not. I know it is a sensitive issue for you, but so is it for us. A simple reassurement or a bit more concern from your end could make a 17 page long topic into a mere 5 page long. We need to know more sometimes, I believe we deserve it in cases like this. Much more when it is so close to the release of the game.

Most of the time people are angry when they dont know. Sometimes we are asking for too much. Some other times we are not. And dont forget. Most of the times when Bioware officials make comments reassuring the fans we welcome these messages (the vast majority of us at least).

In any case we are your fans. We love the games you make and we want to experience them, criticise them and make them better. Both for you and for us.

Cheers.

Modifié par Valkyre4, 29 février 2012 - 07:19 .


#30
Arcadian Legend

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Maviro wrote...

I agree, with the way some people attack around here.


Another one of us!

Or are you the one I saw yesterday...


Yeah, same person.

#31
Maviro

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Another one of us!

Or are you the one I saw yesterday...


I believe I've heard that before, yesterday.  Not sure what I'm one of, but I like it

#32
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Maviro wrote...

I believe I've heard that before, yesterday.  Not sure what I'm one of, but I like it


Ah, it is you.

The pic, man, the pic. We're all XIII-2 supporters.

#33
Jane Shepard

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Maviro wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

I'm surprised this wasn't done long time ago.


I agree, with the way some people attack around here.


Yes. Honestly, I don't understand what do these people want to get by their actions. But it is known that sometimes people say that they think but at the same time they don't think what they say... :(
I personaly see no problems in these new rules...

#34
Maviro

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Ah, excellent. I'll look further into this without derailing the topic, apologies.

#35
Saberchic

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Deviija wrote...

I wanted to pop in to show my support for the site rules and code of conduct change/update. This is AWESOME, and I really am glad that BSN has finally gotten around to having something like this.

There is absolutely no reason why people should be personally attacking other people.


I totally agree. I hope this means some of the devs will come back to the boards. I have been missing some for a long time. :crying: I always liked when they came on and contributed to a discussion or clarified a misunderstanding.

#36
XX55XX

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In theory, I support these new rules.

But I fear they will be used to shut down any legitimate conversations.

But, their site, their rules.

#37
g99

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JohnEpler wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I just hope that the mods will tread lightly in implementing these new changes. I can understand the need to put an end to the Hepler bashing and all those "Why did f***ing Mr. Woo close my topic." threads, but recognizing harassment between community members takes a delicate touch. What looks like a mean spirited flaming to an observer could actually be a lighthearted inside joke. I just hope that they won't ban anyone for harassing other community members without actually talking to the person who the allegedly harassed.


Well, by and large, we tend to lean on the 'warning' side of things more than straight out banning. Accidents might happen, sure, but unless it's something rather clear cut (and I'm sure we've all seen examples where it's quite obviously harrassment), it shouldn't really affect anyone. Honestly, this is more a codification of rules we've always followed - it just makes it more apparent that insults and personal attacks are not tolerated.


Good attitude. I feared that the ban can be overused from now on... But if You (developers, administration of the forum) keep up this kind of order It's fine by me and I can agree with this. Keep us the good work, from both BioWare side and from the normal users.

#38
Naughty Bear

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XX55XX wrote...

In theory, I support these new rules.

But I fear they will be used to shut down any legitimate conversations.

But, their site, their rules.


This is what i fear along with banning members for simple/petty reasons.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 29 février 2012 - 07:28 .


#39
Chewin

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I respect these new changes in the site rule department, but see them a bit sceptically.

Hopefully they prove to be effectual, but at the same time, not giving the mods a reason to shut down legitimate conversations, etc.

#40
Elhanan

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I also support the new CoC.

I am also glad to see all the Community members included in the call for respect; not just the Devs. For me, it helps clarify that we as a Community are in this together.

#41
Valcutio

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Thanks for the comment, Valkyre4, and I can see how it might sound a bit arrogant, but over the last couple of years, we've seen a general attitude shift from the BSN being a special place where people actually got to chat with game developers to a place with a tremendous amount of negativity and people taking our developers for granted, to the point of hurling abuse at them or otherwise showing disrespect. This has made the BSN a place that developers try to avoid.

We're hoping to change that with this change. We're no longer going to be your punching bags, we're no longer going to accept abuse or disrespect. people are still, as in the past, free to disagree with us, dislike us, and criticize us. No, it is even more important that people do it with maturity and civility, just as we've requested all along. :)

For the vast majority of our fans, there will be little to no difference. We've been very grateful to have such awesome fans who we can chat with about our games, even disagree with each other and debate various game features and systems. That will not change. it's only the worst elements of fandom that we'd prefer to not have disrupting your community experience. And may, just maybe, it will encourage more developers to come by and have a chat with y'all.


Just curious but with the harsh sounding tones of these new rules, are you or anyone working at Bioware concerned that discourse will now by covered with a thick layer of insincerity out of fear of being banned?

#42
Cartims

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R E S P E C T.....find out whatt it means to me

#43
Guest_Ivandra Ceruden_*

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Valkyre4 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Thanks for the comment, Valkyre4, and I can see how it might sound a bit arrogant, but over the last couple of years, we've seen a general attitude shift from the BSN being a special place where people actually got to chat with game developers to a place with a tremendous amount of negativity and people taking our developers for granted, to the point of hurling abuse at them or otherwise showing disrespect. This has made the BSN a place that developers try to avoid.

We're hoping to change that with this change. We're no longer going to be your punching bags, we're no longer going to accept abuse or disrespect. people are still, as in the past, free to disagree with us, dislike us, and criticize us. No, it is even more important that people do it with maturity and civility, just as we've requested all along. :)

For the vast majority of our fans, there will be little to no difference. We've been very grateful to have such awesome fans who we can chat with about our games, even disagree with each other and debate various game features and systems. That will not change. it's only the worst elements of fandom that we'd prefer to not have disrupting your community experience. And may, just maybe, it will encourage more developers to come by and have a chat with y'all.


Like I said Stanley, I do agree and I do understand why these rules had to be implemented. I dont question that as an action. It is just that the wording used, I believe, was not ideal and they needed to hear it like this. For some members, yeah it was ideal, but for the majority of this community, I believe it was not.

I can understand that it is not a dev's job to come out here and speak. I know most of that you guys are doing it just to be closer with the fans. But you need to also be aware that we are here everyday as well. Waiting to hear more from you, learn about our favorite games. Sometimes things go out of hand. Sure action needs to be taken. But in all honesty I think a lot of the negativity could also be avoided by Bioware staff and moderators, by simply replying in some hot topics when they can of course.

I believe a lot of negativity errupts when some topics/questions that could be answered, are not. For example, the PS3 framerate issue about ME3. Yes you told us that you are looking into it. But look at it from our point of view. We have preordered CEs (which cost a lot btw) and we need to know if we are investing on the right system or not. I know it is a sensitive issue for you, but so is it for us. A simple reassurement or a bit more concern from your end could make a 17 page long topic into a mere 5 page long. We need to know more sometimes, I believe we deserve it in cases like this. Much more when it is so close to the release of the game.

Most of the time people are angry when they dont know. Sometimes we are asking for too much. Some other times we are not. And dont forget. Most of the times when Bioware officials make comments reassuring the fans we welcome these messages (the vast majority of us at least).

In any case we are your fans. We love the games you make and we want to experience them, criticise them and make them better. Both for you and for us.

Cheers.


^I wholeheartedly agree with Valkyre4. A lot of negativity can be avoided if you devs would just simply answer some questions for us. I understand that the devs possibly can't give away ALL information, but know that we invest in your products and therefore want to know what is to be expected. In other words: we want to know what we're buying. In most cases, just a short answer suffices. That's all we ask. Really.

Modifié par Ivandra Ceruden, 29 février 2012 - 07:39 .


#44
eshrafel

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Naughty Bear wrote...
Chris is my main problem, i have seen him throw bans everywhere. Many are justified but some are because some member made a lame but humourous joke about Bioware or it's products.


To be fair, I would probably have some kind of mental breakdown if I had to read the majority of threads/post/PMs on BSN. I sometimes wonder if Mr P drew some kind of short straw somewhere along the line :o

I'm pretty sick of the random arbitrary attacks that lurk around and have been for some while. There seemed to be less of it on the old boards anyway, but maybe that's just hazy nostalgic memories distorting my view. As has been commented above, some people think the negativity stems from a lack of communication -- or at least, lack of a dialogue -- though when such negativity exists you can kind of see why devs/mods wouldn't really want to establish any form of discussion in the first place. Chicken/egg?

#45
Saberchic

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Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

^I wholeheartedly agree with Valkyre4. A lot of negativity can be avoided if you devs would just simply answer some questions for us. I understand that the devs possibly can't give away ALL information, but know that we invest in your products and therefore want to know what is to be expected. In other words: we want to know what we're buying. In most cases, just a short answer suffices. That's all we ask. Really.


And sometimes they can't comment on those "simple questions." Unfortunately, that's when fans seem to start in with the "entitlement" mentality and things go down hill rather quickly.

#46
Karimloo

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I want things to be happy. Really I do.

I want things to be like old BioWare, where they could work and we could enjoy the product, praise and critic BioWare, and they would talk with us. I don't suppose anyone remembers the release of Mass Effect 1 and the ME forums.

Now, I don't feel any of that. All I see in this network now is hatred, spite, towards employees, to customers, to everyone. No one deserves it, and I think we all have the best of intentions, like a brother would argue with his sister for the benefit of their success. But I just can't fathom why things ended up like this. I don't know if this is EA, or just how things evolve when money and success is involved. I want the old times back.

EDIT: It's not about the rule changes, it's just why it had to be done and what's been happening, and why we need it now, I follow the rules sure, but it shouldn't have come to this.

Modifié par Karimloo, 29 février 2012 - 07:47 .


#47
Il Divo

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JohnEpler wrote...

Well, by and large, we tend to lean on the 'warning' side of things more than straight out banning. Accidents might happen, sure, but unless it's something rather clear cut (and I'm sure we've all seen examples where it's quite obviously harrassment), it shouldn't really affect anyone. Honestly, this is more a codification of rules we've always followed - it just makes it more apparent that insults and personal attacks are not tolerated.


That was actually going to be my next question. By making this a rule now, was the implication to this that previously we were allowed to insult/harass the development team? It always struck me as an unwritten rule, similar to that between posters on here.

#48
LGTX

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This is great news, I'd like BSN to have fans and critics rather than "biodrones" and trolls.

#49
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Saberchic wrote...

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

^I wholeheartedly agree with Valkyre4. A lot of negativity can be avoided if you devs would just simply answer some questions for us. I understand that the devs possibly can't give away ALL information, but know that we invest in your products and therefore want to know what is to be expected. In other words: we want to know what we're buying. In most cases, just a short answer suffices. That's all we ask. Really.


And sometimes they can't comment on those "simple questions." Unfortunately, that's when fans seem to start in with the "entitlement" mentality and things go down hill rather quickly.

I agree with Saberchic. Sometimes all they can say is they are looking into it because they themselves don't have an answer or there isn't one. Yet, the entitlement mentality takes over. We are all consumers of biowares products but that does not give us the right to demand they answer to us. They answer to themselves as a company. We have a choice in whether or not to buy their products. They don't have to answer to us. They do so at their discretion. 

Modifié par Hainkpe, 29 février 2012 - 07:53 .


#50
Sugandhalaya

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Hmmm...and when u get banned permanently, is there a way to manage your DLCs of ME2/3 and DA1/2 or are u banned from your DLC-Page, too?

And does this ban affect your whole EA-Account so u can never play an EA game online any more?

And...who does control this Rules in the german BSN...we don't really have active moderation there.