280 réponses à ce sujet

[phimseto]

Well-said, John, thanks.

[The Jackal]

Is it normal to be nervous everytime you post?

[Maria Caliban]

Smecky Kitteh wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I just hope that the mods will tread lightly in implementing these new changes. I can understand the need to put an end to the Hepler bashing and all those "Why did f***ing Mr. Woo close my topic." threads, but recognizing harassment between community members takes a delicate touch. What looks like a mean spirited flaming to an observer could actually be a lighthearted inside joke. I just hope that they won't ban anyone for harassing other community members without actually talking to the person who the allegedly harassed.

This. Some of the people on here poke fun at each other in a light hearted way and i'd hate to see a mod take it out of context and perma ban someone/me. 

Mods are not robots. They're human beings with a grasp on things like context and social relations.

JasonRocker wrote...

Is it normal to be nervous everytime you post?

When I enter a new social situation, I tend to be nervous because I'm self aware. Every group operates in a slightly different set of rules.

The reason you're nervous is because you feel as though the situation has changed and you're not sure of the rules. That's not a bad thing. It's a normal thing. Give it a few weeks and it will go away.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 01 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Volus Warlord]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Smecky Kitteh wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I just hope that the mods will tread lightly in implementing these new changes. I can understand the need to put an end to the Hepler bashing and all those "Why did f***ing Mr. Woo close my topic." threads, but recognizing harassment between community members takes a delicate touch. What looks like a mean spirited flaming to an observer could actually be a lighthearted inside joke. I just hope that they won't ban anyone for harassing other community members without actually talking to the person who the allegedly harassed.

This. Some of the people on here poke fun at each other in a light hearted way and i'd hate to see a mod take it out of context and perma ban someone/me. 

Mods are not robots. They're human beings with a grasp on things like context and social relations.

They feel like robots at times. 

[Maria Caliban]

Volus Warlord wrote...

They feel like robots at times.

I've never had that feeling.

[Stanley Woo]

JasonRocker wrote...

Is it normal to be nervous everytime you post?

It is if you tend to be combative or insulting when disagreeing with someone. It is if you tend towards swearing, hyperbolic language, strawmen, and ad hominems when stating your case. it is if you have a history of being warned or temporarily banned, or if you are using an alternate account because your main has been permanently banned.

In short, if you are here to cause trouble, you should be nervous. But we Moderators are always around to ask questions of, to clarify our rules, to explain our actions, and generally to keep the community running smoothly. As John said, very little has actually changed. We've just added a klaxon and blinky lights to rules we've always had.

[Volus Warlord]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

They feel like robots at times.

I've never had that feeling.

I have 

[BaronIveagh]

JohnEpler wrote...

Please. If we were going to do that, we would've done so a lot sooner. All the rule changes do is codify an existing policy, where those who are unable to remain civil and polite are given warnings and then banned. We have this idea that people should be able to discuss our games and post feedback both positive and negative without having to worry about being flamed, berated or otherwise insulted. I know people like to wring their hands and cry 'dear me, it's like 1984!' but, truth be told, we always had the ability to censor debate if we wanted to. We don't. Never have, never will.

John... if I didn't know better, I'd think you were brand new mod.  I run a game forum myself, and I know that if I had a policy like this on the books, I'd have to ban half the posters, because at one point or another, every gamer that posts about a game they are passionate about will break one or another of these rules.  Further, this does nto explain the lockdown on posting to this forum without having an Origin account for over a month..  This could only be seen as directed at new players buying ME3, and is a very bad PR move.

I'm not going to say 'Oooh, 1984!!!" but you are hanging out a sign that says 'Noobs need not post." and that actually fosters an even more elitest attitude than is already in place.

Stanley Woo wrote...
In short, if you are here to cause trouble, you should be nervous.

Stan, please stop channeling every hammy actor ever to play a german POW camp officer or prison warden.

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 01 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Merilsell]

CrustyBot wrote...

The wording of these new rules is quite frankly, a bit hilarious. It fuels the stereotype of BSN being overbearing and over moderated, even if not really true and that these particular new rules ought to be a good thing.

This pretty much sums my opinion about the new rules up. Though staying away from personal attacks should be a given and common sense in a forum. Normally.

Le sigh.

[hoorayforicecream]

JasonRocker wrote...

Is it normal to be nervous everytime you post?

I've never been nervous when I post, because I don't have some sort of driving necessity to bring anything personal into it. When I attack in a post, I attack arguments and not people. I argue against what I perceive to be faulty logic and not feelings. If someone has difficulty telling the difference between the two, then that someone probably should feel nervous.

[DreGregoire]

Stanley Woo wrote...

We've just added a klaxon and blinky lights to rules we've always had.

Quoted for truthiness, because that is exactly what I thought when I read through the "new rules," This is the same just worded more clearly for those who may have had trouble understanding the rules in the past.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 01 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[Tonymac]

JohnEpler wrote...

Jerakal wrote...

I can't wait for this rule to be used to ban people for "Any and all criticism against Bioware or it's employees."

Everything is fine, everyone loves you.

Watch this post for edits, kids!

Please. If we were going to do that, we would've done so a lot sooner. All the rule changes do is codify an existing policy, where those who are unable to remain civil and polite are given warnings and then banned. We have this idea that people should be able to discuss our games and post feedback both positive and negative without having to worry about being flamed, berated or otherwise insulted. I know people like to wring their hands and cry 'dear me, it's like 1984!' but, truth be told, we always had the ability to censor debate if we wanted to. We don't. Never have, never will.

Once again, all these new rules are doing is codifying something that is both A) already a policy and should be a matter of common sense and courtesy. Hell, I -love- criticism - when it's properly and rationally presented. I love engaging in discussions about game mechanics, and there are names I will actively seek out when replying becuase they offer some of the best discussion, about half of whom tend towards the 'negative' side of feedback.

But. If you can't stay polite, if you can't stay civil, you aren't welcome on these forums. If that's censorship to you, so be it. This isn't a free for all, nor should it be. We want a community of people who can disagree without resorting to name calling and petty bickering. And, hopefully, making it explicit that we don't tolerate certain behaviour will be the first step towards making this a more inviting and welcoming place for consumers and developers alike.

I was about to mention - this 'new' site rule is hardly new at all.  It has to do with basic human dignity, and how we treat others - this is already covered in the forum rules, although with a few more words added - the thought and content remain.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  If you expect to be treated with dignity and respect, then you should present  to others in this fashion.  Does anyone really expect to be treated poorly?  I would think not, but some people apparently do think that it is ok to be harsh and brutal and rude.  Well, the exit door is over there ladies and gents, if that is how you choose to operate.

The rules are not new at all - they are a friendly reminder.  I also think that the timing is perfect, as we will be seeing a lot of ME3 discussion up and coming next week. 

[AtreiyaN7]

sreaction wrote...

Goodness, BSN is becoming an increasingly unattractive place to frequent. The site conduct changes are draconian and unnecessary. Zero tolerance is over the top.

The site changes underscore an us v. them attitude. They only serve to increase the distance and relation between Bioware and their fanbase.

Now they've assigned themselves the ultimate trump card, conform or else. Doesnt a site ban equate to not being able to log into certain if not all EA games? Wow, another good reason to be AGAINST the idea of cloud gaming/Origin.

In the past the consumer controlled  the software, who gives a damn what one says in a forum?Now, ban me from the forum and take away my gaming privilege? Screw that. EA/Bioware has the Midas touch of marginalizing their fans... I am pretty confident I will not be buying another EA/Bioware game or subjecting myself to the arbitrary rules of a bunch of self important...

Zero tolerance is not over the top when it comes to people who can't do anything besides scream verbal abuse at the top of their digital lungs and who claim that it's "voicing their opinions." Throwing expletive-filled tantrums is not/should not be acceptable, so you have a simple choice: be civil and post your complaints (or have debates on issues) in a civil manner...or leave. They're not censoring anyone's opinion at all - they're just asking people to grow up and act their age, and if you can't manage to behave like an adult in this place, that's really your problem, not theirs.

Also, BioWare's never marginalized their fans in my opinion - I remember being around the old BW forums, and they were one of the only devs that interacted with their fans to the degree that they did. Instead of being, you know, appreciative of that, people have just become increasingly vicious over the years and seem to feel that that existing relationship entitles them to some sort of special right to say anything they want (even if it's horribly abusive).

This didn't just happen magically because of DA2 or ME2. It was going on even with DA:O (the ostensible golden child on the fantasy RPG side of things). I remember plenty of acrimonious arguments and threads on every bloody topic, including the Dark Ritual, Loghain, etc. It's just gotten progressively worse every year until it seems like a lot of people here have lost all sense of decorum.

It's incredibly funny that you're calling them self-important for requiring that we all behave decently to each other. If anything sounds self-important, I think it's your post. Furthermore, it was stated that a site ban would NOT equate to a ban on your EA account.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 01 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[The Jackal]

I am just trying to understand. What has changed they did before, to what they are doing now. Did they not ban people? I recall when I first arrived here, some thread's complaining about, what his name..was something banned, and this was before this was put into place. I never insulted, nor rude. Look at my post history..

[GuardianAngel470]

JasonRocker wrote...

I am just trying to understand. What has changed they did before, to what they are doing now. Did they not ban people? I recall when I first arrived here, some thread's complaining about, what his name..was something banned, and this was before this was put into place. I never insulted, nor rude. Look at my post history..

As JohnEpler has said, nothing has really changed. Bioware are just making explicit a policy they have always followed. People have been banned for abusive language before and they have been banned for spam.

I mean, who doesn't remember ManGiraffeDog? Seen him around lately?

No, I really like the new rules and I really think it was a good idea to make them so explicit. The link's in my sig about how much I agree with this sentiment (which ironically was locked but whatever).

[hoorayforicecream]

JasonRocker wrote...

I am just trying to understand. What has changed they did before, to what they are doing now. Did they not ban people? I recall when I first arrived here, some thread's complaining about, what his name..was something banned, and this was before this was put into place. I never insulted, nor rude. Look at my post history..

Things haven't really changed. They banned people before for doing the same thing. Now they are just stating it for the record that this sort of thing won't be tolerated. They'll get an influx of new forumgoers once Mass Effect 3 hits shelves next week, so it's better to clarify now to help cut down on the number of "BUT I DIDN'T KNOW CALLING SOMEONE <offensive word of choice> WAS GONNA GET ME BANNED" complaints they get after ME3's launch. It's also extremely apropos, given the recent incident involving cyberbullying and Ms Hepler.

[Merilsell]

The wording of the rules is more dramatic

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

JasonRocker wrote...

I am just trying to understand. What has changed they did before, to what they are doing now. Did they not ban people?

As JohnEpler has said, nothing has really changed.

Not true. The wording of the rules is more dramatic now

[BaronIveagh]

Merilsell wrote...
Not true. The wording of the rules is more dramatic now

It sort of went from 'Be Excellent to Each Other' to 'Big Mod Is Watching!  Remember! Game unlike is thoughtcrime!  Contact MiniTrue for Infodump.  Your Papers MUST be in order to post!"

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 01 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[Elhanan]

Death threats and family harassment may have a way of inciting a more dramatic rules presentation from earlier; would for me, too.

[Stanley Woo]

BaronIveagh wrote...

It sort of went from 'Be Excellent to Each Other' to 'Big Mod Is Watching!  Remember! Game unlike is thoughtcrime!  Contact MiniTrue for Infodump.  Your Papers MUST be in order to post!"

From my perspective, it went from whispering "Hey, guys, if you could maybe kind of tone down the personal attacks a tad, that'd be greatly appreciated, okay? Hey, thanks a bunch, sorry to disturb your conversation." to shouting "Hey! Cut it out!" Same enforcement, lower tolerance for edge cases and repeat offensers.

[BaronIveagh]

Eh, I don't see this as helping though.

[inappropriate comments removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 01 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[YohkoOhno]

That's the type of talk BaronIveagh that can get you banned (or arrested).

Simply put, asking people to be civil on an Internet message board is not too much to ask, especially when in the greater scheme of life, playing games is not a high priority.

[BaronIveagh]

YohkoOhno wrote...

That's the type of talk BaronIveagh that can get you banned (or arrested).

Simply put, asking people to be civil on an Internet message board is not too much to ask, especially when in the greater scheme of life, playing games is not a high priority.

Why?


And how was it uncivil?  I didn't harm the person in question, I just sent him a verty firm message.


Edit: Looking at the posting rules,  I still don't see it.  i wasn't being uncivil or talking about an illegal act, so...

Modifié par BaronIveagh, 01 mars 2012 - 09:58 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

BaronIveagh wrote...

I watch the green blossom of dollars
Mass Effect 3 to e released without my money
Silent snow swirling

There was a place called BSN
I loved to drop by now and then
Mods warned all the griefers:
"Yo, play nice or leave us."
So they up and whined ad nauseum.