37 réponses à ce sujet

[Grengrad]

In other words, is boss XYZ always level 13, so if I am level 13 and having trouble with him I can go do some side quests, get up to level 15 and come back and have my way with him, as he is still 13, or will I come back to find that he is now also a level 15?

[Arttis]

Bosses i think are always 1 level above you

Elite bosses are 2 levels above you

I think

[Grengrad]

I figured it worked that way, but if that is the case it makes me question the point of doing side quests.

[Arttis]

Possibly its harder to defeat some bosses with fewer skills/talents/armor/weapons.

Theres always the story you get with the side quests as they fill up most of the game.

I am sure the equipment you may get will be reason enough though.

[Wissenschaft]

Grengrad wrote...

I figured it worked that way, but if that is the case it makes me question the point of doing side quests.

I doubt your going to be able to beat the archdemon, Dragons, and other powerful monsters on high diculties without some great equipment, hence the sidequest. 


Bossies leveling up with you is great, this way you can do quest in any order you like without fear that any of them might get to easy.


Question: Do regular enemies level up with you. Do basic enemies, like Genlocks get tougher as you level up?

[Winterbay]

If we take the little flashgame as a guide then yes, they would. Because in there the monsters level up as you do.

[fatalefout]

as i read it(in a walkthrough somewhere), when you enter a particular area, everything "locks levels", so normal mobs become the level you are at that moment, bosses 2 lvls higher, smaller critters 2 lvls lower. so enter an area at lvl 10 and normal mobs are lvl 10, come back later at lvl 15 and they're still lvl 10.



this means i won't be walking around too much, and clearing entire areas first before heading for the next. would be a shame if you'd make some store quests too easy by wandering around...

[Wissenschaft]

Eh, thats not a big deal for me since I tend to finish areas off complete when I explore them. Note to self, don't be jumping around to different areas.

[Grengrad]

fatalefout wrote...

as i read it(in a walkthrough somewhere), when you enter a particular area, everything "locks levels", so normal mobs become the level you are at that moment, bosses 2 lvls higher, smaller critters 2 lvls lower. so enter an area at lvl 10 and normal mobs are lvl 10, come back later at lvl 15 and they're still lvl 10.

Interesting... so, I can sneak my level 1 into Mordor, then comeback a day later at level 10 and own Sauron.

Modifié par Grengrad, 02 novembre 2009 - 09:27 .

[allothernamesweretaken]

Grengrad wrote...

I figured it worked that way, but if that is the case it makes me question the point of doing side quests.

You remember when you did things for fun, right?

[Lorianno]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
You remember when you did things for fun, right?

Yeah, when it gave you satisfaction for your hardwork. Not endless level scaling.

I've been so hyped for this game since day 1 it was announced, but more and more i'm finding myself disappointed with DA:O and with Bioware.

For a game that claims to be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate / Baldur's Gate 2, it sure is nothing ****ing like Baldur's Gate / Baldur's Gate 2, beyond the pause and play feature.

[Winterbay]

Spirtual successor does not mean "looks like, and has the same gameplay as". It means that the basic thinking of story and other things are the same... (at least in my book)



When doing a side quest gives you not just stats but nice loot that you can use to kill off harder enemies soemwhere else I'd say that they might be worth it even to a person that is not a cumpulsive explorer...

[Lorianno]

I'd much rather the game take on the notion that it's not what what you're wielding but how you're wielding it. Or else it turns into another WoW ****fest where people wear armor ten sizes too big for them, and wield weapons in one hand that a strongman competition wouldn't consider for two hands.



And for those too simple to understand what i mean. The game should be more focused on your level and skill than 1337 l00t, word.

[Grengrad]

Lorianno wrote...

I'd much rather the game take on the notion that it's not what what you're wielding but how you're wielding it. Or else it turns into another WoW ****fest where people wear armor ten sizes too big for them, and wield weapons in one hand that a strongman competition wouldn't consider for two hands.

And for those too simple to understand what i mean. The game should be more focused on your level and skill than 1337 l00t, word.

The game is not focused on your level if every enemy levels whenever you do... In fact, it kinda makes leveling pointless.
That said, I already paid for and pre-loaded my DDE, and I am sure I will still enjoy it.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

From what I've seen of combat so far on live streams I think that above easy level it is dependent on skill, level and tactics.



Specially what with friendly fire to consider.

[allothernamesweretaken]

Lorianno wrote...

I'd much rather the game take on the notion that it's not what what you're wielding but how you're wielding it. Or else it turns into another WoW ****fest where people wear armor ten sizes too big for them, and wield weapons in one hand that a strongman competition wouldn't consider for two hands.

And for those too simple to understand what i mean. The game should be more focused on your level and skill than 1337 l00t, word.

And level scaling creates a world where it's based solely on skill, and your level just means you have more options.

No level scaling creates a world where some people will just grind, and trivialize the game.

Just because Obvlivion did it terribly wrong, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

[Kemor]

In fact, it kinda makes leveling pointless.

It really depends on how it's implemented in the game I think. In Oblivion for example, it was totally stupid until it got modded. Cruising around the land where random bandits all wore Daenic (sp?) full armor/shield/weapon, each worth insane amount of money, totally breaks it.

In DA:O, there seems to be very little item scaling, or rather it's a very smooth curve from what I read. You WILL be far more powerful by level 10 than at level 1 but it will mostly be because of what you know (talents/skills) and not what you wear (no vorpal Life-slaying 2hd Weapon of Mass destruction +200). For health and mana, it's not meant to make you insanely powerful (since enemies will have scaling levels hence HP/mana as well) but more to give you more flexibility in your combat tactics, especially when you include stuff like friendly fire as said before....

...and we all know that playing this game without full scale friendly fire is silly unless you're a life like cliché of a console gamer like all these guys playing with video streaming currently...they have no clue whatsoever and play it like it's God of War or something...insane.

Modifié par Kemor, 02 novembre 2009 - 01:33 .

[Apocolypse09]

Well that said how long till the doom sayers start trashing DA:o cause u need skill and tactics to survive not loot or levels. Ahhhhh takes me back to Eye of the beholder.

Modifié par Apocolypse09, 02 novembre 2009 - 01:40 .

[Lorianno]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...
And level scaling creates a world where it's based solely on skill, and your level just means you have more options.

No level scaling creates a world where some people will just grind, and trivialize the game.

Just because Obvlivion did it terribly wrong, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Mate, I get what you're saying, but at the same time, it doesn't trivialize. If you were a level 20 in BG2 for example, it would be absolutely ludicrous if you ran into a group of bandits or randoms who were of equal power to you. At that level you're no longer some random, you're becoming a legend-- if you aren't one already.

The fact of the matter is, while player skill matters this is a role playing game. It is based around your character and their skill with a sword, not your 1337 micro. As they become leveled and seasoned and eventually utter masters in their art, they should rape accordingly. You don't control every swing, you don't tell them how to breathe, you direct them, and give them tactical positioning. You're their tactical mind.

The game speaks of realism, and yet it scales in every situation. That's not realism. Imagine yourself in a situation like this (Lol i no rite?), obviously you'll be on par in the beginning if not less than impressive. But after dozens of fights, months of training etc. I would expect that you would have picked up on plenty of things through simple practice and not only the theory of the training. Hence you would not struggle against random bandits or the same little beasties you've fought for weeks and weeks.

This shouldn't be any different. When you scale your enemies, it makes levelling absolutely pointless beyond new talents. You might as well stay at the same HP and MP the whole way through. If scaling works for ALL encounters and ALL situations, you might very well be fighting a very nasty level 20 mouse on par with the darkspawn in some bar somewhere. WTF bioware.

[Drasanil]

@Lorianno: Enemies do level with you to some extent, but it's not full blown level scaling. Enemies are assigned a fixed level range and level with in that range depending on your character's level, in addition when your first go into an area the game locks down the current mobs levels so when you do come back later after leveling up a bit it will be easier. From what I understand you shouldn't see level 17 Genlocks or Bandits when you're level 17.

[Lorianno]

Funny enough Dras, according to the guides you should. Bosses will be 1-2 levels higher, elite bosses will be 2 levels higher, scum of the street will only be 1-2 levels lower. Darkspawn are considered at the "Normal" threat rating, and so they level at the same rate you level. Genlock Alpha's and Hurlock Alpha's will be "Lieutenant" threat rating, so they're 1 level ahead.



It IS full blown level scaling, which is what makes me sick to my stomach. I may have to ruin the game by metagaming level locking just so I can feel my characters have actually improved, as opposed to just being kicked in the nuts by mobs no different in talent tree or tactics as i've been fighting before at earlier stages.



Imagine you're at a job, where if you get a promotion, everyone else gets a promotion. And you can never get ahead. Sounds promising no?



I have never considered in my entire life using this term to describe Bioware, ever. BUT.



****ing ****s.

[dweber77]

Even if there is level scaling who cares. If it is present you can look at it like this. The darkspawn have heard about this new hero going around and kicking everone's ****ing butts. So the darkspawn decide to step up their training so maybe the have the chance to turn the tables on you.



I understand it's not a system you like and I can partially agree with how you feel. But it was the way they designed it and I am going to enjoy it either way. So I found another way to look at it from an RP sense.



That may not work for you and that's cool too. We all have your opinions about something we don't like thus far. (I wanted Human Barbarians dammit!)

[mrmoneda]

Lorianno wrote...

Imagine you're at a job, where if you get a promotion, everyone else gets a promotion. And you can never get ahead. Sounds promising no?

Sign me up. :happy:

[harlath]

"When the player enters the area, it scales the creatures in the area
to the player's level and to the values in this 2DA. If you set a max
level of 5, and you bring in a level 8 party, the game will scale to a
level 5 party. The creature's rank is just another scale it uses after
it levels the creature to your level." - http://social.biowar...hp/Areadata.xls

So
if a level nine party enters an area with a max level of five and
encounters a critter (-3 levels v base) it seems the monster will spawn
as level two. Meanwhile, a boss or elite boss would be level six or
seven (level five base plus one or two bonus levels). A monster's rank
(independent of level) also alters health and resistances.

I needed to mod Oblivion to really enjoy it, but it seems the Dragon Age system has sensible checks and balances built in.

[Lorianno]

But you see Har, I would need to mod the existing game to take advantage of that scaling system. Which is fail.