48 réponses à ce sujet

[Dasher1010]

I'm all for Adam Fenix and Dom dying in Gears 3. Mostly since it was well done. But Mass Effect 3's endings were just contrived. The good ending has a ton of forced drama just to ensure that players don't get a happy ending.

Now an ending where Shepard can't survive but he ends up being visited by his LI at the end of the game looking over his grave and if female is pregnant. that would be a lot more rewarding than "Lol, we're taking away all your friends. This is what you get for whining about DA2. Play some TOR, yo." I'm just saying.

[Carnage752]

Who's still hoping this is an elaborate prank by Bioware?
They could be doing these kind of things:
http://www.cracked.c...th-pirates.html

Probably not but oh well eh? Guess I'll just enjoy the final battle rather than the ending.

[Elegana]

MARIAAAA!

[AlphaJarmel]

I love the part where Joker and your crew leave you for dead and try to make a run for it only to get caught in the explosion from the Relays. Quitters never win.

I mean this makes perfect sense.

Modifié par AlphaJarmel, 01 mars 2012 - 03:19 .

[humes spork]

Well, going into serious mode for a moment my personal issue isn't with the endings themselves, or even the very idea of a bittersweet/downer ending. I actually think that fits best.

My problem's with the apparent ending sequence. The whole Crucible/Guardian thing just seems cheap and contrived as all get out, and reeks of deus ex machina. Do we really need something like that at this point in the trilogy?

[Anthropophobic]

Dasher1010 wrote...

But Mass Effect 3's endings were just contrived.

lol wut

[yoshibb]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

I love the part where Joker and your crew leave you for dead and try to make a run for it only to get caught in the explosion from the Relays. Quitters never win.

I mean this makes perfect sense.

Yeah, suicide missions, fights against geth armies, etc. all ok, but not this. I guess Joker forgot he had a doctor's appointment.

[The Last Guardian]

Yeah...I get what your saying. A bitter sweet ending. The more I think about it, the more I hope it's not just completely bitter. That's what really made RDR ending so good. John dying made me sad, and if you think about it, if the game ends there it wouldn't really feel "complete" so to speak. Taking revenge as his son on the man who killed him is what MADE the ending.

Really hope that's the same case ME3 ending. You die for a CAUSE. You die for a REASON. You die for NEW HOPE, and a new future for others. That's what makes a ending, that's what would make me teary eye'd at the sigh of Shepards passing.

Still, in the end the bitter ending might not be bad. I can sit here and imagine Clint Mansells melencholic piano music playing in the background. Some epic music then might follow. They could make it really dramatic and epic. I think context in this case is key. On paper it sounds horribly depressing. But when you see what lead up to all this, and the situation, the dialgoue, the music, etc. It could make it come together

[yoshibb]

Let me try and explain what the difference between actually sad and forced sad is:

I recently watched a movie called The Music Never Stops (spoilers if you never watched the movie and want to) In it the son has lost all memory and has basically become a zombie thanks to a brain tumor. The story is all about his father reconnecting with him through music that he hates because it is the only way to see his son come to life again and talk with him. In the end, his father takes him to a grateful dead concert in an effort to create a new memory with his father since music was his only connection to these memories. Afterwards, the father dies a few months later of a heart condition but at the funeral it's shown that the son remembers that concert with his father when a particular song is played. I cried my eyes out, this is actually sad.

Now imagine the father died right before the concert. Still sad right? Not in a good way but in a pointless way. Because you spent the whole movie watching these two try to rebuild a broken bond and in the end the father dies before he gets a chance to truly reconcile with his son. What would be the point of watching that movie? It's an epic waste of time and it makes you feel terrible after you leave the theater. This is forced sad.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Dasher1010 wrote...

I'm all for Adam Fenix and Dom dying in Gears 3. Mostly since it was well done. But Mass Effect 3's endings were just contrived. The good ending has a ton of forced drama just to ensure that players don't get a happy ending.

Hang on--have you actually seen it?

[The Last Guardian]

yoshibb wrote...

Let me try and explain what the difference between actually sad and forced sad is:

I recently watched a movie called The Music Never Stops (spoilers if you never watched the movie and want to) In it the son has lost all memory and has basically become a zombie thanks to a brain tumor. The story is all about his father reconnecting with him through music that he hates because it is the only way to see his son come to life again and talk with him. In the end, his father takes him to a grateful dead concert in an effort to create a new memory with his father since music was his only connection to these memories. Afterwards, the father dies a few months later of a heart condition but at the funeral it's shown that the son remembers that concert with his father when a particular song is played. I cried my eyes out, this is actually sad.

Now imagine the father died right before the concert. Still sad right? Not in a good way but in a pointless way. Because you spent the whole movie watching these two try to rebuild a broken bond and in the end the father dies before he gets a chance to truly reconcile with his son. What would be the point of watching that movie? It's an epic waste of time and it makes you feel terrible after you leave the theater. This is forced sad.

 I can create a counter example so to speak. I'm natively russian, and we have a semi famous film (from the 80's). It's entitled "Red Day". It's about a army troop who were childhood friends, and took place during the battle of Stalingrad during 1943. You get to know all about the charcters, there past lives as childhood friends, there family, etc. You see how they fight tooth and nail. You see how they care for each other, like brothers. An in the end you get a feeling that they might survive, they might win. But they didn't. The film ends with all the characters lying face down in ditches defending there position till the last breath. Mud on there face, blood, cuts everywhere, a pile of dead. I know in the end Russia wins Stalingrad. But they didn't, they couldn't know. An the film asks the very question oof a character asking "did we win? I don't know."

They were dead. It was a bitter ending, yet it still made me feel because of everything that led up to the final encounter. 

 Granted, I know ME is different. You make choices and the fact that your choice doesn't lead to a more positive ending is a bit distraughting. I get that. 

 All I'm saying is that you can still have a negative bitter ending that still makes you feel like you didn't waste time in the process. 

Modifié par The Last Guardian, 01 mars 2012 - 03:45 .

[Mims]

That's a good example, and actually, I would have loved that ending for Shepard and the crew. There's just one thing. In that, they're dying together. If Shepard and the Normandy crew had died together, people would be upset, but they'd have closure. 

But there isn't closure in this ending. The crew is flung off randomly, leaving more questions than answers. Do they live? Do they find other survivors? How did the other two squad members teleport back to the ship? We don't know. We feel like Shepard is forever seperated from his friends. Its worse than dying together, unified.

Worst of all is that it isn't nessisary. It adds nothing to the plot. Why not just have them crash on earth? What is the point of finding this new planet, other than the "lolsymbolism"?

Modifié par Mims, 01 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[Patriota125]

Elegana wrote...

MARIAAAA!

OH, FERNANDO, MI AMIGO!

Por que!?

yoshibb wrote...

Let me try and explain what the difference between actually sad and forced sad is:

This is forced sad.

But ME3 isn't even sad, just crude and dark.

[Tcrawf24]

As long as Baird lives, i dont give a fu** who dies

[gabewpashere]

WE ARE GONNA RIDE WHAT!?!?!? anyone get the reference?

[yoshibb]

The Last Guardian wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Let me try and explain what the difference between actually sad and forced sad is:

I recently watched a movie called The Music Never Stops (spoilers if you never watched the movie and want to) In it the son has lost all memory and has basically become a zombie thanks to a brain tumor. The story is all about his father reconnecting with him through music that he hates because it is the only way to see his son come to life again and talk with him. In the end, his father takes him to a grateful dead concert in an effort to create a new memory with his father since music was his only connection to these memories. Afterwards, the father dies a few months later of a heart condition but at the funeral it's shown that the son remembers that concert with his father when a particular song is played. I cried my eyes out, this is actually sad.

Now imagine the father died right before the concert. Still sad right? Not in a good way but in a pointless way. Because you spent the whole movie watching these two try to rebuild a broken bond and in the end the father dies before he gets a chance to truly reconcile with his son. What would be the point of watching that movie? It's an epic waste of time and it makes you feel terrible after you leave the theater. This is forced sad.

 I can create a counter example so to speak. I'm natively russian, and we have a semi famous film (from the 80's). It's entitled "Red Day". It's about a army troop who were childhood friends, and took place during the battle of Stalingrad during 1943. You get to know all about the charcters, there past lives as childhood friends, there family, etc. You see how they fight tooth and nail. You see how they care for each other, like brothers. An in the end you get a feeling that they might survive, they might win. But they didn't. The film ends with all the characters lying face down in ditches defending there position till the last breath. Mud on there face, blood, cuts everywhere, a pile of dead. I know in the end Russia wins Stalingrad. But they didn't, they couldn't know. An the film asks the very question oof a character asking "did we win? I don't know."

They were dead. It was a bitter ending, yet it still made me feel because of everything that led up to the final encounter. 

 Granted, I know ME is different. You make choices and the fact that your choice doesn't lead to a more positive ending is a bit distraughting. I get that. 

 All I'm saying is that you can still have a negative bitter ending that still makes you feel like you didn't waste time in the process. 

See I get that but it's all about how things are set up. The thing about that movie I described is that it was all about a father and son reconciling. I builds up with some scary moments and you know that the father is going to die but that's not what it's about. The movie you described is a realistic war story. It's like if I went into Saving Private Ryan and expected everything to work out. I expect people to die and yet I'm still going to be sad cause it's a parallel to real life and I knew that going in.

It would be like if The Return of the Jedi ended with Luke going to the dark side and his friends and the rebels all being annihilated it wouldn't be dramatic or sad because it is not set up to be a realistic war story. It's a space adventure. In the same way, Mass Effect is not set up for a hopeless ending. Shepard has beaten all the odds and done the impossible before. For it just to suddenly become all horrible and dark, angers the audience, and it doesn't connect with them.

If they wanted this ending, basically they needed the situation to be hopeless from the start and Shepard falls apart more and more as time goes on. Shepard also really can't die and come back cause not only is it not realistic, but that implies some sort of triumph and hope. 

Basically you can't have happy, happy, sad. Storytelling just doesn't work that way. 

[Allworkandlowpay]

Until you've played the game in it's entirety, you really have no justification or authority to say that the endings are contrived.

/end thread.

[Xaijin]

The Last Guardian wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

Let me try and explain what the difference between actually sad and forced sad is:

I recently watched a movie called The Music Never Stops (spoilers if you never watched the movie and want to) In it the son has lost all memory and has basically become a zombie thanks to a brain tumor. The story is all about his father reconnecting with him through music that he hates because it is the only way to see his son come to life again and talk with him. In the end, his father takes him to a grateful dead concert in an effort to create a new memory with his father since music was his only connection to these memories. Afterwards, the father dies a few months later of a heart condition but at the funeral it's shown that the son remembers that concert with his father when a particular song is played. I cried my eyes out, this is actually sad.

Now imagine the father died right before the concert. Still sad right? Not in a good way but in a pointless way. Because you spent the whole movie watching these two try to rebuild a broken bond and in the end the father dies before he gets a chance to truly reconcile with his son. What would be the point of watching that movie? It's an epic waste of time and it makes you feel terrible after you leave the theater. This is forced sad.

 I can create a counter example so to speak. I'm natively russian, and we have a semi famous film (from the 80's). It's entitled "Red Day". It's about a army troop who were childhood friends, and took place during the battle of Stalingrad during 1943. You get to know all about the charcters, there past lives as childhood friends, there family, etc. You see how they fight tooth and nail. You see how they care for each other, like brothers. An in the end you get a feeling that they might survive, they might win. But they didn't. The film ends with all the characters lying face down in ditches defending there position till the last breath. Mud on there face, blood, cuts everywhere, a pile of dead. I know in the end Russia wins Stalingrad. But they didn't, they couldn't know. An the film asks the very question oof a character asking "did we win? I don't know."

They were dead. It was a bitter ending, yet it still made me feel because of everything that led up to the final encounter. 

 Granted, I know ME is different. You make choices and the fact that your choice doesn't lead to a more positive ending is a bit distraughting. I get that. 

 All I'm saying is that you can still have a negative bitter ending that still makes you feel like you didn't waste time in the process. 

Well spoken. Unless there is a furtherance where things get back on their feet (in whatever condition) bascially you should have let the Reapers win. Saying thta convergence is the only possible outcome and preventing that means dark age or genocide no matter what is completely contrived.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Dasher1010 wrote...

I'm all for Adam Fenix and Dom dying in Gears 3. Mostly since it was well done. But Mass Effect 3's endings were just contrived. The good ending has a ton of forced drama just to ensure that players don't get a happy ending.

Now an ending where Shepard can't survive but he ends up being visited by his LI at the end of the game looking over his grave and if female is pregnant. that would be a lot more rewarding than "Lol, we're taking away all your friends. This is what you get for whining about DA2. Play some TOR, yo." I'm just saying.

Oh! lord I havent played gears 3 yet

[Dasher1010]

DinoSteve wrote...

Dasher1010 wrote...

I'm all for Adam Fenix and Dom dying in Gears 3. Mostly since it was well done. But Mass Effect 3's endings were just contrived. The good ending has a ton of forced drama just to ensure that players don't get a happy ending.

Now an ending where Shepard can't survive but he ends up being visited by his LI at the end of the game looking over his grave and if female is pregnant. that would be a lot more rewarding than "Lol, we're taking away all your friends. This is what you get for whining about DA2. Play some TOR, yo." I'm just saying.

Oh! lord I havent played gears 3 yet

And I thought I was behind the times in not re-upping yet.

[Olueq]

We are clearly getting trolled.

[Eterna]

We Still don't know the specifics of the ending. We only know the broad general picture.

It would be like me judging the whole of World War 2 when the only knowledge I have about it is that Hitler put Jewish People in Camps.

We need more information before we judge the whole ending. For instance, it's possible that the only mass relay that Blows up is the one that Shepard gets stranded in.

[Allworkandlowpay]

I found Gears ending far more contrived. The world is falling apart around you, humanity seems to have lost, but a LITERAL Deus Ex Machina (not like the Crucible) comes out of the bleachers in the last minute of act 3 to save the day and make a happily ever after ending. It's silly and wrong for the world.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Carnage752 wrote...

Who's still hoping this is an elaborate prank by Bioware?
They could be doing these kind of things:
http://www.cracked.c...th-pirates.html

Probably not but oh well eh? Guess I'll just enjoy the final battle rather than the ending.

I truley hope so, but I fear not.