15 réponses à ce sujet

[doubledeviant]

1.) Stamina Potions

It's easy; the effect exists in-game (the spell Rejuvenate) and wouldn't be code-intensive (a few new potion items, additions to the loot lists, and reciepes) to implement.  It would balance (or at least do much towards balancing) rogues and warriors with mages.

I very much hope that we see this in a patch rather than DLC.  Having to buy Warden's Keep to acquire some form of party storage is a very shady marketing tactic.  It's as if an obvious feature was deliberately not included in the game for the sole purpose of selling DLC.

2.) Fallout-style Examine

What's with the lack of information in this game?  Excepting the Hex tree/chain, I don't use debuffs because I often don't know whether or not my spell has been successful or resisted.  If the spell is successful, I don't know how much debuffing it does.  Even a simple tooltip describing the buffs/debuffs active on a enemy (with numbers!!!) would suffice.

I want more information/feedback from the game in general (we've been gimped for console users, I'd wager), but the ability to examine an enemy is easily tops on my list.

3.) Lockpicking and Stealth should be skills instead of talents.

These are classic rogue abilities that every rogue should have access to without having to waste talent points.  If it's too complex to change, then grant rogues an extra talent point every two levels (instead of the useless accelerated skill points currently recieved).  We shouldn't have to sacrifice archery, dual-wielding, specialization abilities, and whatnot to gain the classic benefits of having a rogue in the party.

3.) Rogues should get extra talent points instead of extra skill points.

There are numerous minor tweaks needed here and there, but I think the above would result in a MUCH more enjoyable game.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 26 novembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[FrostyThundertrod]

3. rouges skills are a bit over loaded has it is.

[Valmy]

doubledeviant wrote...
3.) Lockpicking and Stealth should be skills instead of talents.

These are classic rogue abilities that every rogue should have access to without having to waste talent points.  If it's too complex to change, then grant rogues an extra talent point every two levels (instead of the useless accelerated skill points currently recieved).  We shouldn't have to sacrifice archery, dual-wielding, specialization abilities, and whatnot to gain the classic benefits of having a rogue in the party.

There are numerous minor tweaks needed here and there, but I think the above would result in a MUCH more enjoyable game.

Horrible idea.  The Rogues already probably are going to get stealing and poison and need to get the combat skills to get those precious archery, dual-weild and so forth. 

[doubledeviant]

Valmy wrote...
Horrible idea.  The Rogues already probably are going to get stealing and poison and need to get the combat skills to get those precious archery, dual-weild and so forth. 

Um... what?  You'd prefer having a bunch of points to spend on Trapmaking and Stealing rather than Lockpicking and Stealth?  That's crazy, imo.  Poison is cool, but I can only spend four skill points there before I start wishing Lockpicking and Stealth were skills.

Addition:  It just feels like having a lockpicker or a scout means that the character is useless because you have to ignore the nifty rogue talents and spec abilities.  That's the gist of my issue.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 25 novembre 2009 - 03:25 .

[Valmy]

doubledeviant wrote...
Um... what?  You'd prefer having a bunch of points to spend on Trapmaking and Stealing rather than Lockpicking and Stealth?  That's crazy, imo.  Poison is cool, but I can only spend four skill points there before I start wishing Lockpicking and Stealth were skills.

Not crazy I compulsively steal on my rogues and I get lots of good stuff.  I probably get more loot doing that than using lockpicking.  I didn't even mention trapmaking.

Why force me to pick lockpicking and stealth?  I mean besides the fact that then every class can get lockpicking and remove one of the primary contributions the rogue class brings to a group.  I mean why not just have warriors cast healing spells?

And God forbid I want to get a few tactics slots on my rogue...and you did not even address the fact that your main rogue will want to get coercion and they need to get combat tactics to get the combat skills.

Modifié par Valmy, 25 novembre 2009 - 03:26 .

[doubledeviant]

Valmy wrote...
Not crazy I compulsively steal on my rogues and I get lots of good stuff.  I probably get more loot doing that than using lockpicking.  I didn't even mention trapmaking.

Why force me to pick lockpicking and stealth?  I mean besides the fact that then every class can get lockpicking and remove one of the primary contributions the rogue class brings to a group.  I mean why not just have warriors cast healing spells?

And God forbid I want to get a few tactics slots on my rogue...and you did not even address the fact that your main rogue will want to get coercion and they need to get combat tactics to get the combat skills.

The main character needing Coercion is a problem with all classes, not just the rogue.  Tactics slots are useless and should have been free from the start.  But I hear the gist of what you're saying.

As I edited before I noticed your reply:

It just feels like having a lockpicker or a scout means that the character is useless in combat because you have to ignore the nifty rogue talents and spec abilities.  That's the gist of my issue.

I'd be happy with extra talent points instead of skill points, then.  I did put it foward as an alternative in the OP.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 25 novembre 2009 - 03:35 .

[Must have name]

Stealth should stay a Talent. After all, it's a skill that helps in combat. Though yes, Lockpicking should be a skill.



Agreed on the other two points, especially point 2. I find it really, really annoying that I can't tell if the enemy is debuffed or not.

[Altharas]

While i do believe there's a problem with early level rogues due to having to skill up lockpicking over combat talents, i don't think making them skills is a good idea. This is mere speculation, as i haven't tried it myself, but i've heard accounts of Warriors being better Dual-Wield than rogues. So, if the warrior could also skill lockpicking and stealth, why the snacks would you EVER take a rogue?



Perhaps making Stealth and Lockpicking unique Rogue SKILLS instead of talents might be a possible solution, so their combat performance isn't gimped to justify their place in an already small group. This would also mean rogue's advanced skill up's would have worth, since currently there aren't enough useful skills to warrant the extra points.

[IPerrin]

   lockpicking as a unique to rogue skill, and rogues getting twice as many skill points as other classes would sound fair to me, they do in DnD after all. I'm a bit more split on stealth, since it has more combat implications. Rogues already do well in combat, freeing up those talent points would be going too far.

  I very much agree that stamina potions should be added.

Modifié par IPerrin, 25 novembre 2009 - 03:48 .

[doubledeviant]

IPerrin wrote...
snip

Rogues already do well in combat, freeing up those talent points would be going too far.

 I very much agree that stamina potions should be added.

My rogues don't perform so well in combat (because I direct talent points to Lockpicking and Stealth).  However, this might (or might not) stem from the Dex bug... I'm not using the hotfix because it bugs Shale (or so I've heard).  I'm eager for an official Dex fix to see the difference it makes.

Aside from one initial backstab, stealth doesn't have a combat use until the third or fourth talent point spent, does it?

Modifié par doubledeviant, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:04 .

[Washell]

I very much hope that we see this in a patch rather than DLC.  Having to buy Warden's Keep to acquire some form of party storage is a very shady marketing tactic.  It's as if an obvious feature was deliberately not included in the game for the sole purpose of selling DLC.

It isn't a marketing tactic. It's being too close to the product to see what is needed. I'm on my third play now and find I have plenty of inventory space now. It was only when I didn't know what was good, mediocre and bad that I felt I had insufficient storage. Game has been in development for 5 years and PC version was already done for 6 months, I think most devs and testers long forgotten their first playthroughs. Also, one of the devs released an (un)official DLC adding storage chest to the camp, not exactly proper employee behaviour if the company did in fact do this as a marketing tactic.

[TheGreenLion]

Stamina potions I agree with. Numbers for debuffs/DoTs and such, don't think ya HAVE to have em but it would make some things easier to calculate if you like that kinda thing.



Rogues having what they do are already over-loaded with "rogue talents" and have obvious skills that will be chosen already as stated above. What they should have done is allow chests to be "bashed" open like some other games have allowed, with a chance of hurting the object inside/destroying it. That way rogues wouldn't need to pick locks. But, nothing fancy in those chests anyway so the only thing you resist is the compulsion to stare at the sparkling locked chest with envy.



The DLC is the wave of the future. Ever since the console games DLCs made HUGE profit beyond selling the game and foolish people bought into it because "they couldn't mod it like PCs could" companies now expect to have post-release content added to get more money and stuck copyrights on it so that modders couldn't use it, or they faced heavy fines/penalties (jail time?!)



Don't buy the DLCs and they will disappear, but how do you get millions of people to do that all at once....no idea.

[19percent]

In general terms I do like it when games separate combat and non-combat skills, but I'm not sold on moving the deft hands/stealth trees. As has been noted, stealth is just a combat skill in this game. Why do you feel forced to spend points on it? Its sole use outside of combat is a small bonus to pick pocketing (from stealth). It has no utility; you can't avoid combat, you can't sneak into anything, you can't overhear anything or use it in a plot related manner, nothing (exceptions to these for one or two rogue specific quests and soloing or all rogue parties, I guess). If you would rather have other combat abilities, spend your talent points on those instead. You don't need stealth so there should be no reason to feel forced to take it.

Lelianna for example doesn't have anything in the way of stealth if you don't buy into it for her yourself.

doubledeviant wrote...

Aside from one initial backstab, stealth doesn't have a combat use until the third or fourth talent point spent, does it?

There are combat implications to all of the ranks in that they determine if you'll be detected or not, and of course rank 3 granting the ability to stealth in combat. Anyway what I'm driving at with all of the above though, is that if all you are using it for is an initial free crit, it wasn't worth putting points into in the first place. You'd be better off with a non stealth spec. You may find stealth much more useful if you combine it with traps.

As for deft hands I agree, but the problem is more that lock picking isn't useful to begin with - imo. Fixing deft hands wouldn't fix the underlying problem. But I could see it as a skill.

Remember you don't actually need deft hands to open locks, doing so is a rogue specific ability so making deft hands a skill wouldn't let other classes open locks (unless you wanted it to, of course).

Modifié par 19percent, 25 novembre 2009 - 06:59 .

[Beechwell]

Remember that lockpicking is also used for finding and disarming traps. So it does have a combat use. I like it the way it is. My noble rogue was definitely an efficient fighter, and also had the full lockpicking tree. She didn't have stelath, but that is the choice you have to make between direct combat effectiveness and auxiliary talents. I believe it makes the class way more interesting than the warrior.



I agree on the buff/debuff info though. That would be very helpfull. Not quite sure about stamina potions. I eventually managed to balance stamina quite well with my rogue, with the right talents and some points in willpower. Rather limit the availability of mana and health potions.

[Suhiira]

The whole point of making lockpicking and stealth talents rather then skills is to restrict them to the rogue class.

If you made them skills why even bother with the rogue class at all? The class would become nothing more then an alternate warrior class.

[doubledeviant]

Washell wrote...
It isn't a marketing tactic. It's being too close to the product to see what is needed. I'm on my third play now and find I have plenty of inventory space now. It was only when I didn't know what was good, mediocre and bad that I felt I had insufficient storage. Game has been in development for 5 years and PC version was already done for 6 months, I think most devs and testers long forgotten their first playthroughs. Also, one of the devs released an (un)official DLC adding storage chest to the camp, not exactly proper employee behaviour if the company did in fact do this as a marketing tactic.

I think that defense is B.S.  Even if true, any playtester could have raised the issue.  Also, I was given the impression that the unofficial DLC in question simply moved the Warden's Keep chest to the camp (meaning that purchase of WK would be required for use).

EDIT:  Checked out unofficial DLC, doesn't seem to require WK... but still.  Only available on the PC, and many people don't know about it (I didn't).  Wasn't available until after most of us had purchased WK.  Still think it's shady tactics.

Another note:  For clarity, I've edited the OP.  I realize that changing Lockpicking and Stealth to skills might be problematic (mostly due to the poorly designed skill system), and thus I favor extra talent points instead of the current (useless) extra skill points.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:18 .