60 réponses à ce sujet

[jelf rs]

Daforth wrote...

You think? N7 120 here too, all unlocked, all played. Since the demo is released I play MP almost every evening (yeah I am addicted, I know )  If this is your only argument left, shows how good you are with a Krogan Soldier. I rest my case. 

(BTW, do you know how many N7 120 player are currently ?  1161 at the moment of this post. So, pulling out this and stating you played more Gold match comparing to someone who you does not even know is sooo childish.)

But I don't argue more, it is your play. Many here wrote similar oppinion like me. 

So you still do not understand. It's not about how you can play a krogan soldier on gold with its current abilities and situation.
It's that currently Krogan soldier class is "broken"(I do not like to use this word but w/e) and you can't play it on gold or higher with the supposed playstyle.

I know people here hate MMOs but I'll just take an example from WoW since it's about class balance only.
Back in the days(when WoW was first released) Druids were designed to be an all-rounder and have the ability to switch between roles(dps, tank, healer) on the fly. This is fine and Druids can perform as intended in all pre-60 dungeons.
However the problem occurs as soon as people reach 60. Due to some skill design flaws and lack of equipment choices, the only role that Druids can fullfil in 40 men raid dungeons is healer. And as a healer both Priests and Paladins can do better jobs than Druids. Their function is a group is close to none.
Eventually more and more people realize this and a lot times you cannot find a single Druid in a 40 men group anymore. Of course in the end Blizzard is forced to make changes to the class so that a Druid can still be a Druid post-60, instead of a lackluster healer only.

The situation is simialr to the Krogans. When designing the Krogan race, I do not think the people at Bioware would think like "Let's give Krogans a bunch of melee powers and tons of health and shield(when compared to other races) so that they can hide behind pillars and snipe people, and perhaps melee people once or twice a game."

When designing the Krogans, Bioware obviously would like it to be a CQC character, with the ability to melee people A LOT and can take lots of punishments.
This is okay on bronze and silver(like Druids pre-60) and Krogans can just perform as the role design intended.

The problem is when you want to play gold, Krogans cannot do what they were supposed to do on gold(much like druids post-60). On gold whatever a Krogan can do infiltrators and sentinels can do better. There is no point to have a Krogan soldier in the party.

This is where the problem is.

[Atmosfear3]

jelf rs wrote...

So you still do not understand. It's not about how you can play a krogan soldier on gold with its current abilities and situation.
It's that currently Krogan soldier class is "broken"(I do not like to use this word but w/e) and you can't play it on gold or higher with the supposed playstyle.

I know people here hate MMOs but I'll just take an example from WoW since it's about class balance only.
Back in the days(when WoW was first released) Druids were designed to be an all-rounder and have the ability to switch between roles(dps, tank, healer) on the fly. This is fine and Druids can perform as intended in all pre-60 dungeons.
However the problem occurs as soon as people reach 60. Due to some skill design flaws and lack of equipment choices, the only role that Druids can fullfil in 40 men raid dungeons is healer. And as a healer both Priests and Paladins can do better jobs than Druids. Their function is a group is close to none.
Eventually more and more people realize this and a lot times you cannot find a single Druid in a 40 men group anymore. Of course in the end Blizzard is forced to make changes to the class so that a Druid can still be a Druid post-60, instead of a lackluster healer only.

The situation is simialr to the Krogans. When designing the Krogan race, I do not think the people at Bioware would think like "Let's give Krogans a bunch of melee powers and tons of health and shield(when compared to other races) so that they can hide behind pillars and snipe people, and perhaps melee people once or twice a game."

When designing the Krogans, Bioware obviously would like it to be a CQC character, with the ability to melee people A LOT and can take lots of punishments.
This is okay on bronze and silver(like Druids pre-60) and Krogans can just perform as the role design intended.

The problem is when you want to play gold, Krogans cannot do what they were supposed to do on gold(much like druids post-60). On gold whatever a Krogan can do infiltrators and sentinels can do better. There is no point to have a Krogan soldier in the party.

This is where the problem is.

QFT

Damage on enemies should be toned down slightly on gold so that races and playstyles don't become extinct due to overwhelming incoming fire. The same can be said about the Turian sentinel as well since they are the only other "tough" class/race playable in the demo. But at least they have overload. Carnage and Incinerate Grenade don't even compare to that.

[ncknck]

Daforth wrote...

 On Gold playing a Krogan Soldier means playing a Soldier, supporting the team, hold the line and melee when the situation allows or requires. 

what do you mean exactly with "support" and "hold the line".

Clever Krogans does not run 100 yard ahead to melee a group of enemy when they can shoot down as well beside their teammates, who can help him

i see.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Bronze solo is very possible, trick is to do objectives asap, and play it safe for normal combat, most enemies fail at killing you while running, unless you run through their team, which almost never happens on bronze since sparse enemy population.

[Blissey1]

ncknck wrote...

Daforth wrote...

 On Gold playing a Krogan Soldier means playing a Soldier, supporting the team, hold the line and melee when the situation allows or requires. 

what do you mean exactly with "support" and "hold the line".

I think he means "pick guys up when they take a stray shot to the face" and "****smack any enemy that sneaks up on the group"

[The_11thDoctor]

Love Krogan, hate soldier class. Just so boring

[Peer of the Empire]

krogan soldier rapes gold except for phantoms, but you can still try to melee them.

For melee hero bring the Avenger and little else.  Both AR rounds and Carnage spam will stagger regular troops

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 02 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[mybudgee]

I love the Krogan. Loads of fun! But...why in god's name are people using just the mattock or two pistols as the loadout for a Krogan?!? If you choose just one weapon, it gots to be a shotgun! Right?

Modifié par mybudgee, 02 mars 2012 - 09:06 .

[Sentr0]

jelf rs wrote...

In a balanced game, no matter pvp or pve, every classes should have their own unique roles and something that other classes can not substitute easily.

In this game, a krogan soldier's features are his high health/shield and the unmatched melee ability.
However on gold, these two features become marginal. While you can increase your health and shield by fraction, the enemies' damage increases exponentially. So on gold a krogan soldier can only survive by hiding behind covers most of the time like every other classes and using guns.
But in such conditions, a lot other classes, like infiltrators and sentinels, can do a better job. There's no point for a krogan soldier to exist. No matter how good you are at shotgun+carnage, you are still no match for those classes. And the chances to melee are so rare that it won't change the fact that krogan soldiers are far inferior.

Note that though this is not a competitive game, the less you contribute still means the more of a burden you are. There is a reason why people don't like level 1 in a gold mission. Think it this way, a level 1 infiltrator can sometimes do a better job than a level 20 krogan soldier, be it dealing damage, completing objectives or rezing people.
When you think it this way, then there's no point to use krogan soldier on gold.

If you think krogans shouldn't melee for the sake of meleeing. Then one probably shouldn't use krogan soldier on gold only for the sake of using it as well.

this

Modifié par Sentr0, 02 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[Daforth]

jelf rs wrote...

Daforth wrote...

You think? N7 120 here too, all unlocked, all played. Since the demo is released I play MP almost every evening (yeah I am addicted, I know )  If this is your only argument left, shows how good you are with a Krogan Soldier. I rest my case. 

(BTW, do you know how many N7 120 player are currently ?  1161 at the moment of this post. So, pulling out this and stating you played more Gold match comparing to someone who you does not even know is sooo childish.)

But I don't argue more, it is your play. Many here wrote similar oppinion like me. 

...

When designing the Krogans, Bioware obviously would like it to be a CQC character, with the ability to melee people A LOT and can take lots of punishments.
This is okay on bronze and silver(like Druids pre-60) and Krogans can just perform as the role design intended.

The problem is when you want to play gold, Krogans cannot do what they were supposed to do on gold(much like druids post-60). On gold whatever a Krogan can do infiltrators and sentinels can do better. There is no point to have a Krogan soldier in the party.

This is where the problem is.

Yes, I understand that, and I agree, on Gold you cannot play like on Bronze, I already said that. Maybe it is a problem, I don't see it as a problem, and I don't think that makes weak Krogan Soldier on Gold, but you are right that it requires different approach, that maybe considered as "anti-kroganish".

What I argue with  is that saying Krogan Soldier is terrible at Gold, and no point to have in the party. What I say, based on my experience, that Krogan Soldier, if you accept the different approach than on Bronze fares well on Gold. I also agreed that sentinel (well the Turian Sentinel) is somewhat better, but that also does not mean that one cannot be good and effective with a Krogan on Gold. I did, and assume other as well. 

And I realized one thing that Krogan excell: the capability to escape from bad situations. When the situation is under somewhat control other classes can utilize themself more, as Krogan does not use their melee/Rage strength but others can can use themselves to the full potential, but when the sh*t hit the fan I found that with Krogan I can escape, reposition and turn the situation back is higher than with the Turian Sentinel (inbefore, obviously not as good as with an Infiltrator who can cloak).

This is somewhat similar to the case of vanguards in ME2. In the beginning many cried that vanguards are weak on Insanity, but the case was that it only needs different approach on Instanity and later turned out that actually vanguards are very good on Instanity if played properly. Properly means, not maybe as you imagine how a vanguards should play or as you can play it on Normal, but according to the different circumstances of the Instanity!

All in all, I agree with you that Krogan Soldier cannot play its full potential on Gold like an Infiltrator or a Sentinel, but does does not make it bad, terrible and no use. But I admit it can be disappointing to one that a Krogan Soldier cannot headbutt through Gold like on Bronze, but I don't mind that.

Bottom line, it is a debate of two kinds of thinking:

Thinking #1: Here is a class, this supposed todo this and this. I cannot do this and this on Gold, so this class is bad, no use, drop it, use another that can do the same as on Bronze.

Thinking #2: Here is a class, it has this and this tools, capabilities. Lets see how to play it on Bronze. Ok, I can do that. Lets see how to play it on Gold, hmm does not working, lets he how to play it to be effective, even it means different approach. Hmm, ok, not bad at all, but yeah, not like on Bronze.

Based on Thinking #1, you are right, don't bring a Krogan to Gold, bring a Turian Sentinel instead.
Based on Thinking #2, you realize that it is quite good if you use it according to the situation well.

Modifié par Daforth, 02 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[WaffleCrab]

mybudgee wrote...

I love the Krogan. Loads of fun! But...why in god's name are people using just the mattock or two pistols as the loadout for a Krogan?!? If you choose just one weapon, it gots to be a shotgun! Right?

a.) no such thing as double pistols.
b.) you propably mean SMG. AR and smg rounds stagger enemies, and mattock is the most accurate AR out there.
c.) weapon choices can depend on your build or what your doing, i do tend to favor claymore or katana, but if i dont see anyone with a widow on gold, i take it instead of shotgun. as it does the same damage, longer range, more ammo capacity etc etc.