43 réponses à ce sujet

[Grovermancer]

Level 24 Rogue Archer, 866 damage!  (ps. NO HOTFIX!)

It's TRUE!  (her armor, attack rating, and base damage stats are actually higher than this; removed her helm for this pic -- oh, and I did NOT use "Far Song" Bow as it didn't fit my RP)


HA HA, maybe a little spin! 
:innocent:

I remember reading someone on this forum talking about how great Archers were, citing that they did 750 dmg on an enemy w/ their archer...

WELL GUESS WHAT KIND OF ENEMY I DID 866 DAMAGE ON???

Let's just say "scrub canon-fodder" units designed to make you and your party feel heroic LOL!  (late game stuff)

Any other 'legit' enemy, I couldn't break 500 w/ "Arrow of Slaying."  Otherwise, every shot was consistently in the 50's towards end-game.

This Archer play-through was fun (my 4th overall), and allows/demands a different strategy than the other classes I've played.  But their raw damage output is low.


Wouldn't hurt to address a couple issues:
1.  elemental weapon damage -- Mage enhancements work on every other unit, even the dog, yet don't effect Archers (even though the char screen shows that it does)
2.  craft elemental arrows -- if I can McGuyver fancy traps out of crude materials, I can surely make arrowheads with elemental damage
3.  critical damage % insanely low -- insanely low, needs raised significantly
4.  too few quality bows -- the best 2 bows you either can't use, or can only get with certain alignment or plot-choices
5.  certains talents apparently don't work -- rapid fire, for example, seems to do nothing that 'rapid aim' weapon trait does
6.  "ENCHANTMENT!" -- no runes for bows  (does BW hate Archers?)


Hopefully the patch will address some or all of these issues...

Modifié par Grovermancer, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:02 .

[hazeblaze]

I'm still on my 1st playthrough... I was thinking there would be a lvl cap at 20... is this not true???

[GoldenusG]

Level 25 is the cap. Very few people reach it without exploiting a couple of xp traps. A fair few squeeze into level 24 though.

[T0rin3]

Grovermancer wrote...

 (ps. NO HOTFIX!)

Fail.

[Grovermancer]

No, I got to 24 today...  Barely.  (some have said 25 is the cap)

Actually had 2 side-quests glitch/bug (that's what I call it)    cause I apparently did a few things in an order the game didn't care for.  I also had a lot of non-party member NPC's steal XP throughout the game.

If you take ALL that lost XP together, I still probably only would've hit level 24.5 or so ...don't think I would've quite hit 25.


I try not to use walkthroughs w/ quests except on rare occasion.  I'm thinking I completed a vast majority though.

OH -- defusing TRAPS and UNLOCKING chest adds up to a LOT of XP too! 

(And there's a cheap belt you can buy that addes XP to discovering Codex entries, raising them from 50XP to 75XP.  I didn't bother with it either.)

[Grovermancer]

T0rin3 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

 (ps. NO HOTFIX!)

Fail.

I'm not messing with anything unless it's official.

[csmayer]

There is no cap that I could see. My chars are Lvl 22, 21 and 20. Though I have no Idea how you got to 24 (did you glitch in ostagard?).



I have to say I agree with you though. especially the lack of bow choices was a bit saddening.

I used Mage's Eye on my main and had Leliana use Marjolaine's bow - so there were 2 archers in my party most of the time. but the biggest problem is, that - at least for me that is - they do not have enough stamina to do more than one Arrow of Slaying in a fight.



I think by increasing critical damage or adding elemental damage or even enchantments the class would be as overpowered as mages though, so it's prolly better to just increase rogues stamina or something. besides, elemental arrows are found regularly and if used with care and only in harder fights, are very valuable.



Still, I kinda see your point there. Maybe they'll address it in a future patch.

[T0rin3]

Grovermancer wrote...

Wouldn't hurt to address a couple issues:

Ok, I couldn't help but respond with more than just "fail".

3.  critical damage % insanely low -- insanely low, needs raised significantly

Far Song bow + Seekers of Red Jenny = 195% critical damage... (5% from max) Not using the best items for RP reasons is not an excuse to cry foul of poor itemization.

4.  too few quality bows -- the best 2 bows you either can't use, or can only get with certain alignment or plot-choices

Read the above point. The bow in the Dragon hoard in the Elven Ruins is almost as good as Far Song though.

5.  certains talents apparently don't work -- rapid fire, for example, seems to do nothing that 'rapid aim' weapon trait does

And? Isn't that a good thing, a weapon replaces the need for using a skill that gives you no criticals and sucks up stamina persistently? (because rogue archers have quite enough things to sustain)

6.  "ENCHANTMENT!" -- no runes for bows  (does BW hate Archers?)

When you start hitting darkspawn with the end of your bow, then we've got something to talk about.

[T0rin3]

Grovermancer wrote...

T0rin3 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

 (ps. NO HOTFIX!)

Fail.

I'm not messing with anything unless it's official.

It's freaking from Bioware, and they said they would be including the same fix in the official patch? But you really have to wait till it's officially official before you can play your character legitimately?

[Grovermancer]

csmayer wrote...

There is no cap that I could see. My chars are Lvl 22, 21 and 20. Though I have no Idea how you got to 24 (did you glitch in ostagard?).

No, I don't even know what that is -- what is it?

I was just very, very thorough, (TAB key LOL!) and one goal of this play-through (my 4th) was to try and get as much XP as possible.  (suppose I should've wore that Codex-belt too, and been more careful with quest-order so as to not glitch a few like I did).

I have to say I agree with you though. especially the lack of bow choices was a bit saddening.
I used Mage's Eye on my main and had Leliana use Marjolaine's bow - so there were 2 archers in my party most of the time. but the biggest problem is, that - at least for me that is - they do not have enough stamina to do more than one Arrow of Slaying in a fight.

I used "Falon Din's Reach" (sp) Bow, with Wade's Drakeskin Armor. 

Actually, I think it's the COOLDOWN that makes "Arrow of Slaying" so rarely used; 60s is so long, the battle is usually over before it recharges again.

I think by increasing critical damage or adding elemental damage or even enchantments the class would be as overpowered as mages though, so it's prolly better to just increase rogues stamina or something. besides, elemental arrows are found regularly and if used with care and only in harder fights, are very valuable.

Still, I kinda see your point there. Maybe they'll address it in a future patch.

Thing is, except for the Arrow of Slaying, (and Shattering Arrow, as a minor CC), as an Archer I was really just a support unit, and I wasn't all that powerful.

Was fun and the strategy was unique, but the damage just wasn't there it seems.

[AlphaMagnum]

There are known bugs with the hotfix, just fyi.



It has been reported to screw up Shale, Alistair, and Sten's armor values. And I can vouch for that on the subject of Shale.



What happens is that when using the hotfix, uppon getting the character, Shale's armor is set to 0, despite having a crystal equipped already. ie....Armor when wearing basic crystal = 0, so Armor without = negative 10ish.



This royally screws up any hopes of Shale tanking, and similar bugs can occur with Alistair/Sten, so you can be left without a viable tank if you're unlucky.

[Cadarin]

Arrow of slaying pretty much guarantees a dead mage in the first ~3 seconds of every fight. I like to follow that up with Critical Shot on one of Morrigan's frozen targets for an instant shatter. That's 2 kills in 2 attacks. With that kind of burst, I don't really see a problem with archers in this game.

[Black Kracken]

4 archer playthroughs?! Wow. How many hours overall?

[csmayer]

Wait a second. Falon Din's Reach is actually better than Mage's Eye.



I got to admit I had some .... problems .... determining which piece of equipment is better than another. at least in some cases.



Oh and the reason I didnt hit even level 23 is, that I seem to have left out some things, in my first playthrough anyway (the one with the archer sadly). For instance I did somehow not have enough drake scales to have made make the armors ... It kinda sucks that I can't just go back and fix that :X

Well apparently one never stops learning stuff



Can you confirm that it is indeed better?



I have Spearthrower, Falon Din's Reach and Mage's Eye - Don't have Far Song though - 'cause I'm lawful stupid hehe.



I chose Mage's Eye due to it's critical chance, because I used the Shattering thingy quiet often.

Thinking about it now the +2 damage and rapid aim make more sense actually... Can you confirm that?

[MonsoonStorm]

Add "Aim" to your bug list. I went solo against a white level mage with "aim" and every shot missed but one. I died. I turned off "Aim" and went with "Rapid Shot", was able to kill the mage, but it took 10 seconds and I had 1/8 health left. This is at lvl 13.

[BlueEyes_Austin]

Remember that a rogue archer can also enter stealth for a crit as well. So between Arrow of Slaying and 2 popsicles breaking you can take out three enemies in the first seconds of a fight. That's pretty darn worhtwhile.

[Haasth]

Wait. So, you were an assassin / duelist? Could you elaborate a bit on how you made those work so well with archery, as they are clearly designed for melee combat. I'd love to use them if possible.

[Grovermancer]

T0rin3 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

Wouldn't hurt to address a couple issues:

Ok, I couldn't help but respond with more than just "fail".

3.  critical damage % insanely low -- insanely low, needs raised significantly

Far Song bow + Seekers of Red Jenny = 195% critical damage... (5% from max) Not using the best items for RP reasons is not an excuse to cry foul of poor itemization.

I'm not breaking the Wade's Drakeskin set bonus for that.  And besides, I've heard many say backstabs are only for mele, and not ranged.  AND they've already acknowledged issues with low crit %, so it's not just me.

4.  too few quality bows -- the best 2 bows you either can't use, or can only get with certain alignment or plot-choices

Read the above point. The bow in the Dragon hoard in the Elven Ruins is almost as good as Far Song though.

What point?  That's we're not allowed to RP or else "suffer the consequences?"  They offer a powerful bow you can only get by being either "evil" or irresponsible or maybe just a forgetful or not thorough player.  If I gotta "be evil" and let an NPC commit suicide just to get an item that's geared towards any alignment, that's bullchite.  (because, you know, I couldn't otherwise get that bow from the back of the shop) ?????


That is the bow I was using -- Falon Din's Reach.

5.  certains talents apparently don't work -- rapid fire, for example, seems to do nothing that 'rapid aim' weapon trait does

And? Isn't that a good thing, a weapon replaces the need for using a skill that gives you no criticals and sucks up stamina persistently? (because rogue archers have quite enough things to sustain)

It would be good if there was something else better to replace it (skill-wise).  Many of the Archer talents are wastes, and based on this forum, no one uses hardly any of them.  The only sustainable I used towards the end was the Duelist skill of "Dueling."  Ocassionally "Suppressing Fire," though I doubt it even did that much to make it worthwhile.

6.  "ENCHANTMENT!" -- no runes for bows  (does BW hate Archers?)

When you start hitting darkspawn with the end of your bow, then we've got something to talk about.

So there's no lore in DA or other fantasy of ranged weapons receiving runic powerups?

Modifié par Grovermancer, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:57 .

[Grovermancer]

T0rin3 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

T0rin3 wrote...

Grovermancer wrote...

 (ps. NO HOTFIX!)

Fail.

I'm not messing with anything unless it's official.

It's freaking from Bioware, and they said they would be including the same fix in the official patch? But you really have to wait till it's officially official before you can play your character legitimately?

You're misrepresenting that.

It's from one Dev, who threw it together as a quickfix for the community, and it's been implied it will be significantly altered for the official patch, especially re: enemy archers.  And other issues re: Archers may be addressed as well.

[Grovermancer]

AlphaMagnum wrote...

There are known bugs with the hotfix, just fyi.

It has been reported to screw up Shale, Alistair, and Sten's armor values. And I can vouch for that on the subject of Shale.

What happens is that when using the hotfix, uppon getting the character, Shale's armor is set to 0, despite having a crystal equipped already. ie....Armor when wearing basic crystal = 0, so Armor without = negative 10ish.

This royally screws up any hopes of Shale tanking, and similar bugs can occur with Alistair/Sten, so you can be left without a viable tank if you're unlucky.

Yet another reason I aint touched the Hotfix.

And Shale (and Allister) were my tanks this play-through.

[T0rin3]

Grovermancer wrote...

I'm not breaking the Wade's Drakeskin set bonus for that.  And besides, I've heard many say backstabs are only for mele, and not ranged.  AND they've already acknowledged issues with low crit %, so it's not just me.

Uhhhh... so again, personal preference, and you blame itemization? And all items that boost backstab damage %, also boost critical attack %. You don't read the item effects I take it?

What point?  That's we're not allowed to RP or else "suffer the consequences?"  They offer a powerful bow you can only get by being either "evil" or irresponsible or maybe just a forgetful or not thorough player.  If I gotta "be evil" and let an NPC commit suicide just to get an item that's geared towards any alignment, that's bullchite.  (because, you know, I couldn't otherwise get that bow from the back of the shop) ?????

You can choose to kill him out of pity, that's what I did.. not particularly evil, but if you're so concerned with itemization, I would think you would prioritize it above say, some artificial character and how he behaves in an artificial world. You either want to role play a very specific or you want the best items, it's your choice. Nobody to blame but yourself on that one.

That is the bow I was using -- Falon Din's Reach.

Yeah, that's the one I mentioned, it's almost as good as Far Song, but not quite.

It would be good if there was something else better to replace it (skill-wise).  Many of the Archer talents are wastes, and based on this forum, no one uses hardly any of them.  The only sustainable I used towards the end was the Duelist skill of "Dueling."  Ocassionally "Suppressing Fire," though I doubt it even did that much to make it worthwhile.

Rapid Aim is a tier 1 talent, it is not supposed to be an end game "good" talent. Supressing Fire, a tier 3 talent is good against bigger, harder enemies. Aim is bad, except when combined with big attacks like Arrow of Slaying. There aren't many sustained bow talents that you can use all the time, most are situational, and personally I'm glad. With specializations there are quite enough sustained abilities to use, I barely have enough stamina to use 2 sustained talents and still be able to fire arrow of slaying.

So there's no lore in DA or other fantasy of ranged weapons receiving runic powerups?

Not in any "traditional fantasy" game I've played in the last 15 years.

[Grovermancer]

Cadarin wrote...

Arrow of slaying pretty much guarantees a dead mage in the first ~3 seconds of every fight. I like to follow that up with Critical Shot on one of Morrigan's frozen targets for an instant shatter. That's 2 kills in 2 attacks. With that kind of burst, I don't really see a problem with archers in this game.

Arrow of Slaying didn't outright kill Mages the last 1/3 of the game. (though it did major damage)

Yes, I could also use Critical Shot to shatter frozen enemies, but I didn't want to rely too much on shattering; I've already done a lot of that in my prior 3 play-throughs. (plan on playing an Elementalist Mage next play-through, so don't want to spoil it too much)


Like I said, I really enjoyed this play-through, it was fun and offered (demanded ?) a different strategy...  

But if you want to play as "Legolas" or "Robin Hood," that probably aint gonna happen.

[T0rin3]

Grovermancer wrote...

AlphaMagnum wrote...

There are known bugs with the hotfix, just fyi.

It has been reported to screw up Shale, Alistair, and Sten's armor values. And I can vouch for that on the subject of Shale.

What happens is that when using the hotfix, uppon getting the character, Shale's armor is set to 0, despite having a crystal equipped already. ie....Armor when wearing basic crystal = 0, so Armor without = negative 10ish.

This royally screws up any hopes of Shale tanking, and similar bugs can occur with Alistair/Sten, so you can be left without a viable tank if you're unlucky.

Yet another reason I aint touched the Hotfix.

And Shale (and Allister) were my tanks this play-through.

AFAIK, it is known that it messes up Shale, which I can accept. I've never heard of it ever affecting Alistaire or Sten.

Anyways, the only reason I use it, is because without it, Archery is overpowered. Using Longbows, you get 100% of your damage derived from strength, or as a Rogue with Lethality: cunning.

100% damage from cunning, the dump stat, well, that's just ridiculous.

[Grovermancer]

Black Kracken wrote...

4 archer playthroughs?! Wow. How many hours overall?

No, different class each time.

1. standard Male Sword & Board (lvl 20)
2. evil male Elf Blood Mage (lvl 21) (RP'd using mostly Entropy and Virulent Bomb line of spells)
3. casteless male Dwarf 2-H Zerker (lvl 23) (most fun of all play-throughs)
4. female Dalish Rogue Archer (lvl 24)

First play-through took around 70 hrs IIR.  This last one took under 60.  (not sure about the numbers, and I pause any time I open a screen, read a Codex, etc)

[Grovermancer]

csmayer wrote...

Wait a second. Falon Din's Reach is actually better than Mage's Eye.

I got to admit I had some .... problems .... determining which piece of equipment is better than another. at least in some cases.

Oh and the reason I didnt hit even level 23 is, that I seem to have left out some things, in my first playthrough anyway (the one with the archer sadly). For instance I did somehow not have enough drake scales to have made make the armors ... It kinda sucks that I can't just go back and fix that :X
Well apparently one never stops learning stuff

Can you confirm that it is indeed better?

I have Spearthrower, Falon Din's Reach and Mage's Eye - Don't have Far Song though - 'cause I'm lawful stupid hehe.

I chose Mage's Eye due to it's critical chance, because I used the Shattering thingy quiet often.
Thinking about it now the +2 damage and rapid aim make more sense actually... Can you confirm that?

I screwed up my first play-through too.  I imagine everyone does.

I can't really confirm numbers or stats, as I'm not one of those type of players.

But I always go for higher regular base damage over an occasional chance of increased critical damage...  (unless the crit chance is at least 30%)

Like I said earlier, every single regular shot did around 55 dmg.  Not huge, but reliable and effective.

That's why I chose Falon Din's Reach; higher base damage, and rapid aim.