244 réponses à ce sujet

[jmood88]

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

[Kanmuru]

Estelindis wrote...

YankeeBravo wrote...

When you say you only ever saw two dialogue options, you're talking about options on the right side of the wheel for "paragon" and "renegade" responses, right?

Still had the options on the left side of the wheel to branch conversations deeper?

Yes.  I'm sorry, I should have been more clear!  Of course, the investigate (etc) options weren't always there, but they sometimes were.  I'm just talking about the options that move you forward in the conversation, on the right side.

Can you prove that it was gameplay with a imported character ?

The leaker stated that the norm is 3 dialogue choices and they usually involve dlcs and actions from mass effect 1 and 2. 

Modifié par Kanmuru, 01 mars 2012 - 04:24 .

[Estelindis]

Quick update, by the way. The guy who gave myself and some others access to the party posted today: "I would point out that we weren't playing final code, but *almost* final builds of the game." Still, I wouldn't expect that would make a huge difference in terms of dialogue.

Kanmuru wrote...

Can you prove that it was gameplay with a imported character ?

 
I said that it wasn't gameplay with an imported character.

...That's what I said, right?  *frantically checks post*

Yes, that's what I said: 

Estelindis wrote... 
none of us had the option to import a save, so maybe that's why there weren't more conversation options...? 

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[jmood88]

tez19 wrote...

I would be surprised if there are any 'hubs' at all like ME1 and a bit of ME2 to walk around and talk to people. It will be just ACTION, ACTION ACTION to try and get all the call of doody fans to buy ME3. Bioware seem to be forgetting more and more their loyal fans and ditching them for fickle casual's. Bioware in steep decline.

"Fickle casuals"? The only fickle one's are the so called long term fans who have forgotten how Mass Effect 1 was really like and made up this narrative in their minds where that game was perfect and that Bioware ruined the series after that.

[Kanmuru]

Estelindis wrote...

Quick update, by the way. The guy who gave myself and some others access to the party posted today: "I would point out that we weren't playing final code, but *almost* final builds of the game." Still, I wouldn't expect that would make a huge difference in terms of dialogue.

Kanmuru wrote...

Can you prove that it was gameplay with a imported character ?

 
I said that it wasn't gameplay with an imported character.

...That's what I said, right?  *frantically checks post*

But thats the diference, the leaker said imported char get many more dialogue choices

[Darth Death]

Eclipse merc wrote...

I haven't seen a single neutral option yet from all the videos i've watched.

Yeah, I'm concerned about this. It's one extreme or the other with no middle ground to balance. 

[Estelindis]

Kanmuru wrote...

But thats the diference, the leaker said imported char get many more dialogue choices

Well, good!  

But, ah, does anyone think that's unfair?  

Modifié par Estelindis, 01 mars 2012 - 04:27 .

[Squallypo]

jmood88 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I would be surprised if there are any 'hubs' at all like ME1 and a bit of ME2 to walk around and talk to people. It will be just ACTION, ACTION ACTION to try and get all the call of doody fans to buy ME3. Bioware seem to be forgetting more and more their loyal fans and ditching them for fickle casual's. Bioware in steep decline.

"Fickle casuals"? The only fickle one's are the so called long term fans who have forgotten how Mass Effect 1 was really like and made up this narrative in their minds where that game was perfect and that Bioware ruined the series after that.

i really didnt find anything wrong with ME 1 honestly i like everything about it perhaps some of the cover system could have been done much better but other than that the difficulty was not bad and the use of powers was well made, and we had ALOT OF rpg elements in it which was pretty much destroyed in ME 2. 
thats why i hope ME 3 will be the closest thing to ME 1 in that matter but seeing this new *information* seems like its gonna be a ME 2 but worst.

so far if things are *true* im going with :
ME 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ME2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ME3 ? eh i dont know anymore whats going on here lul <_<  *goes back to play kotor 2 TSLRCM* 

Modifié par Squallypo, 01 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[Daywalker315]

tez19 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I would be surprised if there are any 'hubs' at all like ME1 and a bit of ME2 to walk around and talk to people. It will be just ACTION, ACTION ACTION to try and get all the call of doody fans to buy ME3. Bioware seem to be forgetting more and more their loyal fans and ditching them for fickle casual's. Bioware in steep decline.

Hey, Señor Hardcore Fan? There's a Normandy Tour and a big darn-tooting thread with information on Locations that you missed while being so hardcore, amigo.

Hey casual, has it occured to you that i might not want things spoiled? I have no interest in watching vids as i want to find everything out myself in my playthrough. But casual, Bioware's recent record has shown them ditching their loyal fanbase for more casual's like yourself with FLASHY BANG action.

Just stop. Please. If you "don't want things spoiled" then please don't go around trying to scare people by claiming there's not going to be any hubs and it's just all action and so on. Even non-spoiler info about the game would be able to tell you that there are hubs with lots of missions. The IGN reviewer even complained a little bit because there were so many missions random people would give you on the Citadel that didn't feel like they were directly tied to beating the Reapers (but it was a minor quibble he had with it). So side quests galore, anyone? Just relax and try to hold off on the doom and gloom if possible. Please?

[Woobels]

jmood88 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I would be surprised if there are any 'hubs' at all like ME1 and a bit of ME2 to walk around and talk to people. It will be just ACTION, ACTION ACTION to try and get all the call of doody fans to buy ME3. Bioware seem to be forgetting more and more their loyal fans and ditching them for fickle casual's. Bioware in steep decline.

"Fickle casuals"? The only fickle one's are the so called long term fans who have forgotten how Mass Effect 1 was really like and made up this narrative in their minds where that game was perfect and that Bioware ruined the series after that.

ME1 (And 2) did have times where you could have proper interactive chats with your squad members much more often.

[Daywalker315]

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

[Alraiis]

I've been replaying the Baldur's Gate series. It blows my mind how often I only have two dialogue choices, one of which is comically evil. The original Mass Effect looked like a step up... until I played it again and realized how many "different" responses led to exactly the same line from Shepard. And "neutral" options were the worst offenders—they're usually just disguised versions of one of the other two choices.

Think of the major decision points for the series: Ashley vs. Kaidan; saving the Council; killing the Rachni; the genophage debate; rewriting or destroying the heretics; electing Anderson or Udina; the Collector base. There are typically only two choices. Not three. If there's a neutral option, it's usually a non-choice—you end up letting another person decide, or you choose one of the two outcomes for a slightly different reason. Exceptions to this are very rare.

Here's what I think: If decisions are only going to come down to one of two choices, make the dialogue only two choices. Have the player actually choose, so their decisions are something they own. That, in my opinion, is the right way to present those choices.

You might think, at this point, that I am a shameless Bioware apologist. In truth, however, I think these binary choices show a lack of creativity and an unwillingness to explore nuance. I would prefer dilemmas that had three, four, or five different resolutions, but they opted not to go that route. If they lied about how the dialogue works, that's even worse.

Anyway, all I'm saying is: Don't pretend this is new for Bioware. Dialogue with only two choices has been popping up since the beginning.

[SnowHeart1]

Daywalker315 wrote...

First point about ME2. That's nice and all ... but this isn't ME2. It's a different intro and opening to the story and they choose to go a different route. As I said, there are some instances where they led to the same general thing anyway and many cases where three options don't make sense. "You ready to move out Commander?" "Yes"/"Not yet" ... and a third pointless option would be, what? "Hmm, well, I think I'll slowly walk in that direction til I make up my mind."

Also, this isn't one of those "what the h*** is going on?" moments. We didn't just wake up from a 2-year nap. We know who the enemy is and they're blowing crap up. Not the best time to sit and have a chat. Ultimately, I'm not concerned due to the sheer volume of dialogue. There will be choices and options. Most of the people who play pick a Paragon or Renegade path and stick to it anyway, thus eliminating the middle choice. But since that middle choice is no longer there, they act like they always used it and they're being betrayed that it's gone. It will be there plenty over the course of the game, trust me.

Finally, the previous poster mentioned that in a lot of cases, the investigate option is still there. If you want to find out what's going on, it's not like every conversation will just have two options on the right and no investigate options over and over. We will all be fine. We will not implode if some conversations don't have 814 options to pick.

I am psyched for ME3 and will enjoy it for what it is. What I won't do is get worked up over something small like 30% or something (completely random guess) of the conversations having two distinctly different choices instead of two different ones and one that's pretty similar to one or the other anyway.

Also, for the record, DA2 wasn't the complete disaster most people on here act like it was. Sure, the story wasn't great and I got tired of the same places over and over but the companion characters were decently entertaining and the combat just destroyed DA:O if you ask me. I played through both games twice and the combat was leaps and bounds better in DA2 IMO. The story and setting of DA:O was infinitely better though, yes.

Dude, if you think it's appropriate and it's all going to be roses, cool for you. You can be an optimist; I'm not trying to rain on your parade. As you said, I'm also planning to enjoy ME3 for what it is. I just think it's going to be less in terms of conversation options than you apparently do. And I'll still enjoy it. But, yes, last time I said, "The demo was just an incomplete taste of what is to come," I wound up proven wrong. Fool me once and all that jazz.

I am going to nit-pick one of your arguments, though. Namely, "Also, this isn't one of those "what the h*** is going on?" moments." I think it is. Both from Shepard's perspective and, more importantly, some players'. Shep has been in jail and, presumably, a bit cut off from the scuttlebutt. More to the point, from the player's perspective, we've got  two year gap of events to fill in or, for a new player, a whole bunch of questions as to who are these people and why do I care about them? You're apparently fine with just pushing that along and getting Shep onto the Normandy. Cool. Fair enough. Some people, like me, might want an opportunity to ask some questions, though. And that opportunity is not there. Period.

Does that mean ME3 is going to be awful? I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that if past is present, the demo is a fair enough and accurate enough baseline on what we can expect for the rest of the game. And, even if I'll be a little sad if that turns out to be true, I'll still be fine with it. I guess I just don't think folks should get their hopes up and start chanting, "It's just a demo; it's just a romance scene; the full game will be different" when past history on Bioware-post-EA-merger releases suggests that's not entirely likely. Doesn't mean it's going to be a bad game; just means people might want to control their expectations and play the game for what it is.

Edit/PS/TLDR version: Put another way, I didn't think the dialogue options in the demo were "bad". I was just a little disappointed there weren't more choices.

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 01 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Cody211282]

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

[jmood88]

Squallypo wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

I would be surprised if there are any 'hubs' at all like ME1 and a bit of ME2 to walk around and talk to people. It will be just ACTION, ACTION ACTION to try and get all the call of doody fans to buy ME3. Bioware seem to be forgetting more and more their loyal fans and ditching them for fickle casual's. Bioware in steep decline.

"Fickle casuals"? The only fickle one's are the so called long term fans who have forgotten how Mass Effect 1 was really like and made up this narrative in their minds where that game was perfect and that Bioware ruined the series after that.

i really didnt find anything wrong with ME 1 honestly i like everything about it perhaps some of the cover system could have been done much better but other than that the difficulty was not bad and the use of powers was well made, and we had ALOT OF rpg elements in it which was pretty much destroyed in ME 2. 
thats why i hope ME 3 will be the closest thing to ME 1 in that matter but seeing this new *information* seems like its gonna be a ME 2 but worst.

so far if things are *true* im going with :
ME 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ME2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ME3 ? eh i dont know anymore whats going on here lul <_<  *goes back to play kotor 2 TSLRCM* 

I loved the first Mass Effect but the game was far from perfect, and that wasn't just because of the combat. As I said earlier, there were instances where there were only two dialogue options even for characters who would talk more later. It's entirely possible that there are only two options for some people but that wouldn't be a major change for the series. There is too much revisionist history around here and people blow things way out of proportion. I have yet to see a single person who has played through the game say that there are only two dialogue options per character, this comes from people who haven't played the game or have only played through the intro mission.

[Daywalker315]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

First point about ME2. That's nice and all ... but this isn't ME2. It's a different intro and opening to the story and they choose to go a different route. As I said, there are some instances where they led to the same general thing anyway and many cases where three options don't make sense. "You ready to move out Commander?" "Yes"/"Not yet" ... and a third pointless option would be, what? "Hmm, well, I think I'll slowly walk in that direction til I make up my mind."

Also, this isn't one of those "what the h*** is going on?" moments. We didn't just wake up from a 2-year nap. We know who the enemy is and they're blowing crap up. Not the best time to sit and have a chat. Ultimately, I'm not concerned due to the sheer volume of dialogue. There will be choices and options. Most of the people who play pick a Paragon or Renegade path and stick to it anyway, thus eliminating the middle choice. But since that middle choice is no longer there, they act like they always used it and they're being betrayed that it's gone. It will be there plenty over the course of the game, trust me.

Finally, the previous poster mentioned that in a lot of cases, the investigate option is still there. If you want to find out what's going on, it's not like every conversation will just have two options on the right and no investigate options over and over. We will all be fine. We will not implode if some conversations don't have 814 options to pick.

I am psyched for ME3 and will enjoy it for what it is. What I won't do is get worked up over something small like 30% or something (completely random guess) of the conversations having two distinctly different choices instead of two different ones and one that's pretty similar to one or the other anyway.

Also, for the record, DA2 wasn't the complete disaster most people on here act like it was. Sure, the story wasn't great and I got tired of the same places over and over but the companion characters were decently entertaining and the combat just destroyed DA:O if you ask me. I played through both games twice and the combat was leaps and bounds better in DA2 IMO. The story and setting of DA:O was infinitely better though, yes.

Dude, if you think it's appropriate and it's all going to be roses, cool for you. You can be an optimist; I'm not trying to rain on your parade. As you said, I'm also planning to enjoy ME3 for what it is. I just think it's going to be less in terms of conversation options than you apparently do. And I'll still enjoy it. But, yes, last time I said, "The demo was just an incomplete taste of what is to come," I wound up proven wrong. Fool me once and all that jazz.

I am going to nit-pick one of your arguments, though. Namely, "Also, this isn't one of those "what the h*** is going on?" moments." I think it is. Both from Shepard's perspective and, more importantly, some players'. Shep has been in jail and, presumably, a bit cut off from the scuttlebutt. More to the point, from the player's perspective, we've got  two year gap of events to fill in or, for a new player, a whole bunch of questions as to who are these people and why do I care about them? You're apparently fine with just pushing that along and getting Shep onto the Normandy. Cool. Fair enough. Some people, like me, might want an opportunity to ask some questions, though. And that opportunity is not there. Period.

Does that mean ME3 is going to be awful? I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that if past is present, the demo is a fair enough and accurate enough baseline on what we can expect for the rest of the game. And, even if I'll be a little sad if that turns out to be true, I'll still be fine with it. I guess I just don't think folks should get their hopes up and start chanting, "It's just a demo; it's just a romance scene; the full game will be different" when past history on Bioware-post-EA-merger releases suggests that's not entirely likely. Doesn't mean it's going to be a bad game; just means people might want to control their expectations and play the game for what it is.

Edit/PS/TLDR version: Put another way, I didn't think the dialogue options in the demo were "bad". I was just a little disappointed there weren't more choices.

For the record, do you know for a fact that they don't expand upon your time in jail and the months between ME2 and ME3 AFTER the events of the demo/Mars mission? Perhaps on the Normandy? Perhaps once you reach the Citadel? All I'm saying is that the time to recap every little bit of your story and the last few months was NOT while the windows were being blasted out of the building you're standing in. That's all. I prefer to have faith that they will recap those events at some point during the first few hours of the game. Either way, I don't care much personally because I played all the DLC and know what's going on. But for those who didn't, I'm sure they won't leave people guessing about everything that happened after the core ME2 game ended and ME3 started. It's just that while on Earth, the way they opened the game, it was not the ideal time to have that happen.

[Alchemist4]

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

[Wulfram]

Alraiis wrote...

Think of the major decision points for the series: Ashley vs. Kaidan; saving the Council; killing the Rachni; the genophage debate; rewriting or destroying the heretics; electing Anderson or Udina; the Collector base. There are typically only two choices. Not three. If there's a neutral option, it's usually a non-choice—you end up letting another person decide, or you choose one of the two outcomes for a slightly different reason. Exceptions to this are very rare.

Choosing the same outcome for a different reason matters.  A Shepard who let the Council die because aliens weren't worth human lives is very different from a Shepard who let them die because they thought it offered the best chance of victory.

How Shepard talks matters, too.  My "neutral" shepard may in fact choose Paragon for most of the big decisions, but when she talks to people she's professional and direct, rather than touchy feely like a paragon.

[jmood88]

Alchemist4 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

You didn't have less options in Mass Effect 2, so I fail to see how the series has been going downhill as far as dialogue options are concerned.

[Cody211282]

Alchemist4 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

They did have more in ME1 but there where still a few point that made me facepalm becuase they were all the same, shep talking to the counsle is by far the worst.

[Daywalker315]

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

And the 20k lines in ME1 and 26k in ME2 (especially this because of some things from ME1 changing something in ME2) didn't take that same type of thing into account? Your argument doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Daywalker315, 01 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[bluewolv1970]

As someone who was concerned about story/dialogue and such (and vocal about my concern) I feel much better having read some of the early reviews from sites that are normally on overly critical side like the German review...I feel much better about the game than I did a few weeks ago...conversely my concerns over DA2 only kept getting worse closer to launch...

[Cody211282]

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

You didn't have less options in Mass Effect 2, so I fail to see how the series has been going downhill as far as dialogue options are concerned.

I just finished ME1 and working on ME2, and I have to say ME2 had a lot of places with only 2 options, mostly middle then top/bottom.

[jmood88]

Cody211282 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

You didn't have less options in Mass Effect 2, so I fail to see how the series has been going downhill as far as dialogue options are concerned.

I just finished ME1 and working on ME2, and I have to say ME2 had a lot of places with only 2 options, mostly middle then top/bottom.

I just played through Mass Effect 1 as well and there were just as many instances where there were two dialgoue options.