244 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody211282]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

And the 20k lines in ME1 and 26k in ME2 (especially this because of some things from ME1 changing something in ME2) didn't take that same type of thing into account? Your argument doesn't make sense.

All I am saying is the numbers are probably a bit padded and probably a small but decent percent is just "oh you picked paragon/renegade in game 1."

Now I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, it's the quality of the dialogue more then how much people say, but to me the numbers look a bit padded.

[Daywalker315]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Choosing the same outcome for a different reason matters.  A Shepard who let the Council die because aliens weren't worth human lives is very different from a Shepard who let them die because they thought it offered the best chance of victory.

How Shepard talks matters, too.  My "neutral" shepard may in fact choose Paragon for most of the big decisions, but when she talks to people she's professional and direct, rather than touchy feely like a paragon.

Nailed it! I used neutral a lot.

You're probably in the minority. The true RPG playthrough and not trying to fill up a Paragon bar and so forth. Don't get me wrong, on 2 of my ME1 playthroughs, I chose "focus on Sovereign" at the end, effectively leaving the Council to die without saying it in so many words. I just think that a lot of non-critical decisions and conversations, especially in ME1, they effectively said the same type of thing, just worded a little differently.

I still don't believe that the entire game will be filled with every conversation only having two choices and no investigate options though like some people seem to think. It would be tough to hit 40,000 lines of dialogue if this were the case, people.

[Cody211282]

jmood88 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

^ That's what I meant. In ME1, you had greater diversity of dialog option to choose from in a given conversation with an NPC.

You didn't have less options in Mass Effect 2, so I fail to see how the series has been going downhill as far as dialogue options are concerned.

I just finished ME1 and working on ME2, and I have to say ME2 had a lot of places with only 2 options, mostly middle then top/bottom.

I just played through Mass Effect 1 as well and there were just as many instances where there were two dialgoue options.

True, but not nearly as much as 2 did, I'm just hoping that's not the trend going into this game.

[AkiKishi]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

As someone who was concerned about story/dialogue and such (and vocal about my concern) I feel much better having read some of the early reviews from sites that are normally on overly critical side like the German review...I feel much better about the game than I did a few weeks ago...conversely my concerns over DA2 only kept getting worse closer to launch...

Those are the guys that gave DA2 87% take whatever you like from that.

[SnowHeart1]

Daywalker315 wrote...
*snip*

For the record, do you know for a fact that they don't expand upon your time in jail and the months between ME2 and ME3 AFTER the events of the demo/Mars mission? Perhaps on the Normandy? Perhaps once you reach the Citadel? All I'm saying is that the time to recap every little bit of your story and the last few months was NOT while the windows were being blasted out of the building you're standing in. That's all. I prefer to have faith that they will recap those events at some point during the first few hours of the game. Either way, I don't care much personally because I played all the DLC and know what's going on. But for those who didn't, I'm sure they won't leave people guessing about everything that happened after the core ME2 game ended and ME3 started. It's just that while on Earth, the way they opened the game, it was not the ideal time to have that happen.

I think we're talking past each other here because I feel like you keep missing my point. Maybe I'm articulating it poorly. What I am trying to say is I believe (I could be wrong) the dialogue options in the demo are more likely than not to be indicative of the range dialogue choices we have available through the majority of the game. Not certainly and not always, but more likely than not the majority. What do I base that on? It's a different game, but the dialogue options in SWTOR are very limited -- they really are just the two or three options on the right side. And, we saw the same thing in the ME3 demo. And the same thing in the ME3 romance scenes that have been leaked or previewed. And arguments that it's just the demo ring very similar to DA2. Again, different game, not a certainty, yadda yadda, but it is not completely uninformed speculation. There is a basis for the belief.

Now, I'm not sure if you're saying, "It's okay we don't have more dialogue options, because Bioware will give us scripted exposition, movie-style, later in the game," or if you're saying, "That's okay because we'll probably have expanded dialogue options later, after the chaos of the introduction and reaper invasion of Earth." If it's the first, then we're just talking past each other. If it's the second, as I said, you can have that hope and I think it would be nice if you're right. I'm just not going to hold my breath. Not trying to rip on you for feeling different, and sorry if I pissed you off or something. I'm just trying to say that, to the extent people are concerned about this, they're not completely off base. Do they know for certain? No, no more than you do (unless you've got a final copy of ME3; I know I don't).

[Alraiis]

Wulfram wrote...

Alraiis wrote...

Think of the major decision points for the series: Ashley vs. Kaidan; saving the Council; killing the Rachni; the genophage debate; rewriting or destroying the heretics; electing Anderson or Udina; the Collector base. There are typically only two choices. Not three. If there's a neutral option, it's usually a non-choice—you end up letting another person decide, or you choose one of the two outcomes for a slightly different reason. Exceptions to this are very rare.

Choosing the same outcome for a different reason matters.  A Shepard who let the Council die because aliens weren't worth human lives is very different from a Shepard who let them die because they thought it offered the best chance of victory.

How Shepard talks matters, too.  My "neutral" shepard may in fact choose Paragon for most of the big decisions, but when she talks to people she's professional and direct, rather than touchy feely like a paragon.

These things matter only if the other characters notice or react. They never seem to, however. I do wish they could do that nuance better, but if it's only going to be a surface-level illusion, I'd rather it weren't there. I should clarify that I am talking primarily about the Big Choices™—your example about how your Shepard talks to people is regular conversation is well-taken. Having three or more choices there is easier to implement and I hope it hasn't been abandoned.

[Daywalker315]

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

Alchemist4 wrote...

Sadly, the dialog option have been getting cut out of the game with each installment it seems.

That's not true at all.

This ^ ... ME1 = 20k lines of dialogue, ME2 = something like 26k lines I believe, ME3 = 40k lines of dialogue. I think we'll be fine. Just relax and try it yourself when it comes out.

But you have to wonder how much f it is just "you picked renegade instead of paragon this one time."

And the 20k lines in ME1 and 26k in ME2 (especially this because of some things from ME1 changing something in ME2) didn't take that same type of thing into account? Your argument doesn't make sense.

All I am saying is the numbers are probably a bit padded and probably a small but decent percent is just "oh you picked paragon/renegade in game 1."

Now I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, it's the quality of the dialogue more then how much people say, but to me the numbers look a bit padded.

That might be the case but I just don't get the doom and gloom. The "tutorial" mission and the second mission have some 2-option deals. It's getting the story going quickly and setting it up. The explaining of what Shep's been up to probably comes later with the Council or with the crew on Normandy (or both). The romance paths have a lot of 2-option choices on the right side ... ok, it's a romance in ME, you're either in, or you're out. I just think people, especially here on BSN, tend to overreact to these things they haven't actually played themselves.

[ncknck]

exskeeny wrote...


sex scene with 3 options

1: lets do it
2: no
3: how about just a handjob, I've got a lot on my mind.

Wait, is this dialogue true?? oh my.

[MartinDN]

I liked neutral, and in my opinion, and clearly in most cases, it offered the better dialogue. Especially if you had a full rene/paragon bar and didnt care for the points. So if true its basically making you conform to either paragon or renegade - a system which is clearly faulty when looking at choices such as rewriting or destroying the geth.

[iRAWRasaurusREX]

Personally I feel like there is too much auto dialog, where Shepard talks without your choice in what s/he is saying.

[Cody211282]

MartinDN wrote...

I liked neutral, and in my opinion, and clearly in most cases, it offered the better dialogue. Especially if you had a full rene/paragon bar and didnt care for the points. So if true its basically making you conform to either paragon or renegade - a system which is clearly faulty when looking at choices such as rewriting or destroying the geth.

The geth and genophage thing should have been done like this
1-You say what side your on.
2-You say why your on that side and your reasoning is what gives you points into renegade or paragon.

[Cody211282]

iRAWRasaurusREX wrote...

Personally I feel like there is too much auto dialog, where Shepard talks without your choice in what s/he is saying.

I was sorta hoping that was just for the demo

[Daywalker315]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
*snip*

For the record, do you know for a fact that they don't expand upon your time in jail and the months between ME2 and ME3 AFTER the events of the demo/Mars mission? Perhaps on the Normandy? Perhaps once you reach the Citadel? All I'm saying is that the time to recap every little bit of your story and the last few months was NOT while the windows were being blasted out of the building you're standing in. That's all. I prefer to have faith that they will recap those events at some point during the first few hours of the game. Either way, I don't care much personally because I played all the DLC and know what's going on. But for those who didn't, I'm sure they won't leave people guessing about everything that happened after the core ME2 game ended and ME3 started. It's just that while on Earth, the way they opened the game, it was not the ideal time to have that happen.

I think we're talking past each other here because I feel like you keep missing my point. Maybe I'm articulating it poorly. What I am trying to say is I believe (I could be wrong) the dialogue options in the demo are more likely than not to be indicative of the range dialogue choices we have available through the majority of the game. Not certainly and not always, but more likely than not the majority. What do I base that on? It's a different game, but the dialogue options in SWTOR are very limited -- they really are just the two or three options on the right side. And, we saw the same thing in the ME3 demo. And the same thing in the ME3 romance scenes that have been leaked or previewed. And arguments that it's just the demo ring very similar to DA2. Again, different game, not a certainty, yadda yadda, but it is not completely uninformed speculation. There is a basis for the belief.

Now, I'm not sure if you're saying, "It's okay we don't have more dialogue options, because Bioware will give us scripted exposition, movie-style, later in the game," or if you're saying, "That's okay because we'll probably have expanded dialogue options later, after the chaos of the introduction and reaper invasion of Earth." If it's the first, then we're just talking past each other. If it's the second, as I said, you can have that hope and I think it would be nice if you're right. I'm just not going to hold my breath. Not trying to rip on you for feeling different, and sorry if I pissed you off or something. I'm just trying to say that, to the extent people are concerned about this, they're not completely off base. Do they know for certain? No, no more than you do (unless you've got a final copy of ME3; I know I don't).

No, you didn't ****** me off at all. In fact, I'm just happy we're at least having a civil discussion. It seems hard to do around here. I was referring to the second one in your second paragraph BTW. I still get the feeling that the actual choices of what to say about what we've been up to (and the expository nature for those who don't know) will come later on board Normandy and even more likely, on the Citadel with the Council. We will be explaining our actions and talking about the Reapers (my guess, purely speculative). And knowing the Council, they won't listen to us, but at least the info about what we've been up to will come out.

For the record, I think you and I are closer to seeing eye to eye than you think. I realize the demo scared some people and I know other scenes have been leaked showing only 2 options. I do think it's possible ME3 will have more 2-option choices than in the past but I also believe in no way will it make up a majority or anywhere near 100% of the time. I could be wrong and it would feel a little hollow if that were the case but I choose to believe BioWare regarding "trying" to have 3 or more options when possible until proven wrong. I'm an optimist! Also, for the record, I still believe not every single situation NEEDS 3 or more options, but that's just my opinion.

Modifié par Daywalker315, 01 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[MartinDN]

Cody211282 wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

I liked neutral, and in my opinion, and clearly in most cases, it offered the better dialogue. Especially if you had a full rene/paragon bar and didnt care for the points. So if true its basically making you conform to either paragon or renegade - a system which is clearly faulty when looking at choices such as rewriting or destroying the geth.

The geth and genophage thing should have been done like this
1-You say what side your on.
2-You say why your on that side and your reasoning is what gives you points into renegade or paragon.

Indeed, those 2 choices really do highlight it - with the geth your choosing to set them free from, essentially, coded slavery just because they didnt choose the other sides version, yet its renegade? The genophage cure... now in my opinion saving the cure should of been renegade, hell i would of liked this system to be removed entireley - but as thats not happening -  only a renegade would of saved a cure, a cure that was created from experimenting on different races, the ends justifys the means and all that. 

Mass effect would of GREATLY benefited from dragon ages dialogue system.

If the whole game is like this....yeah its pretty much ruined it, i hope this whole claim is garbage. Im sure i would still enjoy the game mind.

Modifié par MartinDN, 01 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[Il Divo]

tez19 wrote...

Yup it looks like Bioware are ditching what made them great and becoming another generic FLASHY BANG action game developer. Bioware in steep decline.

I highly doubt that you have any idea what made Bioware great in that pathetic mind of yours.

[DarthCaine]

jmood88 wrote...

even the "Holy Grail of Video Games" (Mass Effect 1)

You misspelled "KOTOR"

Modifié par DarthCaine, 01 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[Wulfram]

Daywalker315 wrote...

That might be the case but I just don't get the doom and gloom. The "tutorial" mission and the second mission have some 2-option deals. It's getting the story going quickly and setting it up. The explaining of what Shep's been up to probably comes later with the Council or with the crew on Normandy (or both). The romance paths have a lot of 2-option choices on the right side ... ok, it's a romance in ME, you're either in, or you're out. I just think people, especially here on BSN, tend to overreact to these things they haven't actually played themselves.

How would a third option slow down getting the story going?

And romances shouldn't just be about whether you're in or out.  Even if it's just the option to be either flirty or heartfelt in saying "yes", it's still valuable.

[Daywalker315]

Il Divo wrote...

tez19 wrote...

Yup it looks like Bioware are ditching what made them great and becoming another generic FLASHY BANG action game developer. Bioware in steep decline.

I highly doubt that you have any idea what made Bioware great in that ........

Careful there man. The new update to the code of conduct around here is pretty strict about personal attacks. Tez's posts can be frustrating sometimes but no reason to go after him like that and risk getting yourself banned.

Modifié par Daywalker315, 01 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[Cody211282]

MartinDN wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

I liked neutral, and in my opinion, and clearly in most cases, it offered the better dialogue. Especially if you had a full rene/paragon bar and didnt care for the points. So if true its basically making you conform to either paragon or renegade - a system which is clearly faulty when looking at choices such as rewriting or destroying the geth.

The geth and genophage thing should have been done like this
1-You say what side your on.
2-You say why your on that side and your reasoning is what gives you points into renegade or paragon.

Indeed, those 2 choices really do highlight it - with the geth your choosing to set them free from, essentially, coded slavery just because they didnt choose the other sides version, yet its renegade? The genophage cure... now in my opinion saving the cure should of been renegade, hell i would of liked this system to be removed entireley - but as thats not happening -  only a renegade would of saved a cure, a cure that was created from experimenting on different races, the ends justifys the means and all that. 

Mass effect would of GREATLY benefited from dragon ages dialogue system.

If the whole game is like this....yeah its pretty much ruined it, i hope this whole claim is garbage. Im sure i would still enjoy the game mind.

Thats why I think the reasoning behind what you are doing is more impotain to assigning the point then what you do. I was all for blowing that geth station to hell because I didn't see it as giving them another chance, I saw it as you going in abd brain washing an entire culture that didn't agree with you and to me thats way worse then killing someone.

I could argue your reasoning with the genophage one but I'll just say that it further highlights why assigning points to those conversations was a bad idea.

Overall though those 2 quests were the best parts of ME2.

[Daywalker315]

Wulfram wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

That might be the case but I just don't get the doom and gloom. The "tutorial" mission and the second mission have some 2-option deals. It's getting the story going quickly and setting it up. The explaining of what Shep's been up to probably comes later with the Council or with the crew on Normandy (or both). The romance paths have a lot of 2-option choices on the right side ... ok, it's a romance in ME, you're either in, or you're out. I just think people, especially here on BSN, tend to overreact to these things they haven't actually played themselves.

How would a third option slow down getting the story going?

And romances shouldn't just be about whether you're in or out.  Even if it's just the option to be either flirty or heartfelt in saying "yes", it's still valuable.

I get it. I don't even disagree. I'm just saying that's how they did them and those things alone don't necessarily mean that 100% of the game is like that. Those things represent particular segments of the game and I can understand how they would write them with only 2 options.

[jmood88]

DarthCaine wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

even the "Holy Grail of Video Games" (Mass Effect 1)

You misspelled "KOTOR"

Most of the people on here seem to have never played it. I only ever see references to Mass Effect 1 when reading about Bioware's supposed downfall.

[Il Divo]

jmood88 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

jmood88 wrote...

even the "Holy Grail of Video Games" (Mass Effect 1)

You misspelled "KOTOR"

Most of the people on here seem to have never played it. I only ever see references to Mass Effect 1 when reading about Bioware's supposed downfall.

Eh, more than you might think have made it through the series. This is Bioware after all. Personally, it's my holy grail of Bioware games.

[Goliz]

Its funny how there's always an explanation for the game to be awesome when they cut something out.

They take holster: Nobody even used that, man!!! Do you even remember what button?

They dont fix the animations: Animations are soooo much better than ME1 and ME2, man!!! Do you even remember those animations?

They gives us less options for conversations: Conversations are going to be sooo much better in ME3, man!!!! Do you even remember what the other options were for?

Point something wrong with the game and watch the same reaction over and over again. As much as i like the games i cant close my eyes to so much ****.

[bluewolv1970]

BobSmith101 wrote...

bluewolv1970 wrote...

As someone who was concerned about story/dialogue and such (and vocal about my concern) I feel much better having read some of the early reviews from sites that are normally on overly critical side like the German review...I feel much better about the game than I did a few weeks ago...conversely my concerns over DA2 only kept getting worse closer to launch...

Those are the guys that gave DA2 87% take whatever you like from that.

but in gaming anything under 90% is code for garbage usually so...the early reviews on ME3 are way better than DA2 (and the issues with ME3 are more technical and engine based - which I personally care less about)...Believe I am not a Bioware apologist in the least bit (as many of my previous threads wouldl attest) but I really feel at worst the game will be very very good if not great...everyone who has reviewed it has said it has the longest plot and is bigger than 1 and 2 so while that does not necessarily speak to quality it does speak to Bioware not balancing gameplay and story.