350 réponses à ce sujet

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Jerryk72 wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Jerryk72 wrote...

JJDrakken wrote...

Don't throw more money at them, honestly, if they cannot provide the ending 90% of the player base wants. Screw em & move on to another company to lavish over.


JJ

That is the issue with BSN. We think we are the 90% when in reality with are at most the .090% of all BW gamers. Just think about it for a second. JK Rowling made a series of successful books where she plotted out the end details BEFORE she finished the first book. Do you really think she polled her books fans to determine how end the story she created?? Not a chance..

Why do people keep using novels, where choice is never implied, in relation to an RPG where it has been/is?

RPG's are nothing more than a "Choose Your Own Adventure" Novel with a finite number of choices and outcomes. In the grand scheme of the story it would be unrealistic to have a care bear happy ending after the universe was nearly destroyed. The fact that any civilization survived the war is a plus.

It's a choose your own adventure where the endings are all the same.

And enough with, "it's unrealistic". No, just, you came back from the dead. I repeat, you came back from being a frosty space corpse. You destory a reaper single-handedly in the first game. You have sex with a Turian and I'm pretty sure the chaffing was the least of Shepard's problems. You want realism, try non-fiction.

[BettyBlueGT]

To OP. People like you are the reasons game companies pull crap like this by saying "its okay you were lazy. here take my $$ for something you should have done at the start".

[dw99027]

No. Just no.

[jellobell]

BettyBlueGT wrote...

To OP. People like you are the reasons game companies pull crap like this by saying "its okay you were lazy. here take my $$ for something you should have done at the start".

But it's not like we'd do this for any other game; not even any other Bioware game, but ME3 is the big payoff that we've all been waiting for and lots of people want it to have a good ending.

[mellodejavu]

jellobell wrote...

BettyBlueGT wrote...

To OP. People like you are the reasons game companies pull crap like this by saying "its okay you were lazy. here take my $$ for something you should have done at the start".

But it's not like we'd do this for any other game; not even any other Bioware game, but ME3 is the big payoff that we've all been waiting for and lots of people want it to have a good ending.

What you're doing is encouraging lazy behavior. Is it really something you want to endorse? Paying for endings that we should have got in the first place? I mean most people do this for weapons and armor but come on...game endings. It needs to stop.

[Pobatti]

This is refreshing and good 

It means that Mass Effect isn't 'dead' after 3, since the fans are willing to invest more time and money trying to obtain that ever elusive perfect ending - but I don't think we'll get it as DLC, neither do I think it's a good idea for numerous reasons. Firstly, there's the frightening prospect of encouraging developers to purposefully pull this sort of stunt commonly in the future, but let's see what all this 'better ending' really represents:

It means that folks are willing to keep buying and supporting these games! No doubt, that perfect ending is the 'carrot' that Bioware could dangle for a couple more entire games. At the moment, the ending is rather grim no matter how you play or the decisions you make - but this represents a mere turning point (a link) in the larger Mass Effect story.

As long as Bioware don't forget about how ME3 ended and actually make it relevant to ME4, folks will eagerly pounce on that game since it will hold the potential to make everything that's happened so far both a necessary evil on the path to greater good, and become far more significant among the fans besides how the ending is currently viewed.

It might take us to ME5 or maybe even ME6, but I've no doubt that there will be a 'perfect ending' eventually. As long as the whole story from ME1-3 remains 'canon' and a key or influential aspect of the second trilogy, Shepard & the Normandy may be seen as the 'enablers' of whichever hero picks up the pieces in the future - he/she couldn't have done (whatever) had the original trilogy and sacrifices never happened.

That's how you redeem the ending and epilogue - give it meaning.

[Acrylium]

I promised Liara to come back. I intend to keep my word.

[jellobell]

Pobatti wrote...

This is refreshing and good 

It means that Mass Effect isn't 'dead' after 3, since the fans are willing to invest more time and money trying to obtain that ever elusive perfect ending - but I don't think we'll get it as DLC, neither do I think it's a good idea for numerous reasons. Firstly, there's the frightening prospect of encouraging developers to purposefully pull this sort of stunt commonly in the future, but let's see what all this 'better ending' really represents:

It means that folks are willing to keep buying and supporting these games! No doubt, that perfect ending is the 'carrot' that Bioware could dangle for a couple more entire games. At the moment, the ending is rather grim no matter how you play or the decisions you make - but this represents a mere turning point (a link) in the larger Mass Effect story.

As long as Bioware don't forget about how ME3 ended and actually make it relevant to ME4, folks will eagerly pounce on that game since it will hold the potential to make everything that's happened so far both a necessary evil on the path to greater good, and become far more significant among the fans besides how the ending is currently viewed.

It might take us to ME5 or maybe even ME6, but I've no doubt that there will be a 'perfect ending' eventually. As long as the whole story from ME1-3 remains 'canon' and a key or influential aspect of the second trilogy, Shepard & the Normandy may be seen as the 'enablers' of whichever hero picks up the pieces in the future - he/she couldn't have done (whatever) had the original trilogy and sacrifices never happened.

That's how you redeem the ending and epilogue - give it meaning.

Except that if this is the case and the ending is set in stone then I am never buying another Bioware game, let alone a potential Mass Effect 4.

They have to give us an ending that provides us with some measure of closure if they expect us to buy into the future of the Mass Effect IP. Right now I just feel like I'm being screwed over.

[Holiday]

jellobell wrote...

BettyBlueGT wrote...

To OP. People like you are the reasons game companies pull crap like this by saying "its okay you were lazy. here take my $$ for something you should have done at the start".

But it's not like we'd do this for any other game; not even any other Bioware game, but ME3 is the big payoff that we've all been waiting for and lots of people want it to have a good ending.

But the thing you aren't understanding is that if they do this and it works, other companies will start doing it and probably wouldn't give you a choice but to buy the ending if you want to complete the game.

[Pobatti]

jellobell wrote...

Except that if this is the case and the ending is set in stone then I am never buying another Bioware game, let alone a potential Mass Effect 4.

I guess you missed the point of my meaning a bit 

In my scenario above, what you see in the epilogue is technically correct - but we're given very little clarification and is actually very vague; so much so that it looks to be deliberately leaving holes to come along and fill in the future.

Remember the whole plot issue of the 2011 series of Doctor Who.. what we saw in the first episode was the cold hard truth that couldn't be changed or altered in any way. That's exactly what ultimately happened, only in the final episode of the season it was revealed the Doctor was actually inside a robot replica of himself. That's what I mean by 'deliberately vague' and 'we don't know the whole story'.

Mass Effect wouldn't do anything quite that contrived, all we would need to see is what happens between the Normandy crashing and the epilogue. Who knows, the crew might indeed make it back to Earth after all - though in all likelihood the canon Shepard died in the ending regardless of what happens. Bioware are suggesting we keep our ME3 saves, so we don't know anything... yet.

[Marta Rio]

Holiday wrote...

But the thing you aren't understanding is that if they do this and it works, other companies will start doing it and probably wouldn't give you a choice but to buy the ending if you want to complete the game.

I know that this is a major argument why we shouldn't be asking for ending-changing DLC, as it sets a bad precedent that unscrupulous developers/publishers could exploit. 

However, I do think we sort of have to take things like this on a case-by-case basis.  I don't think it was Bioware's intention to release an ending that the fans would hate.  Why would they?  There are many reasons, other than malice/greed that could have led to these endings being released (*cough* writer's ego *cough*).  I've heard a number of interviews with the devs explaining how things they thought people were going to enjoy (e.g. planet scanning) turned out to be loathed by most of the fan base.  And vice versa (e.g. the idea of Tali/Garrus as LIs). 

If you look at the Fallout 3 Broken Steel DLC, that was the result of developers admitting their mistakes and trying to make amends for something that left a lot of players unhappy.  Same thing with Lair of the Shadow Broker (sort of).  I have no problem buying that sort of DLC, because it's not simply a cash grab.  I mean, it's always sort of a cash grab, but they didn't intentionally put terrible things in the game for the purpose of selling future DLC.  I don't think that's the case here either, with these less than stellar endings.

On the other hand, take day-one DLC like From Ashes.  It's hard to see that as anything other as a cash-grab (and it's particularly insidious because it's a freakin' Prothean for goodness sake).  That's the kind of DLC I'm not in favor of.

So yeah, as consumers, I think we can make up our own minds as to the motivations behind why a certain DLC is being released.  If we don't like the motivations, then we don't buy the product.

[Pobatti]

 I'd just like to point out a little something that might not completely understand my rationalisation of the ending being a case of something there merely to close one trilogy, that is vague enough to remain canon while being able to completely alter the situation completely in subsequent sequels.

The (so called) greatest game ever, Final Fantasy VII did this. For the first disk, the plot was about saving the planet from having it's life energy sucked out. It ended with the death of a most fondly remembered character for no reason other than (apparently) forced emotional impact.

By the end of the game, you defeated Shinra and Sephiroth, and saved the world... or did you?

You see the Highwind spiralling out of control as meteor still hasn't been stopped. Suddenly, the lifestream bursts through the planet's surface and engulfs the world, and then meteor, and then... a massive flash of bright light and an explosion.

Cue 200 years in the future. Midgar is an overgrown deserted ruin, and an aged Red XIII takes his children to the site.

Apparently, Cloud, Barret, Tifa and the others (indeed the world's population) all died in the fight between the planet's lifestream and meteor. There's not a soul to be seen, but there are birds in the sky and nature has returned at the apparent cost of the extermination of all humanity.

Then, cue Advent Children. Everyone's still alive. It turns out the entire cast survived the ending of FFVII after all.

You see, it's us that filled in the blanks originally. It was never stated that humanity were killed off, but it was simply so difficult to disprove and there were so many hints in the game towards the fact, that the spinoffs and sequels were seen as a gigantic retcon when really they weren't. They only retconned our own interpretation of events.

We're the only ones saying Joker died, that Tali and Garrus starved... not the game.

Modifié par Pobatti, 02 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[Oof]

Pobatti wrote...

Then, cue Advent Children. Everyone's still alive. It turns out the entire cast survived the ending of FFVII after all.

You see, it's us that filled in the blanks originally. It was never stated that humanity were killed off, but it was simply so difficult to disprove and there were so many hints in the game towards the fact, that the spinoffs and sequels were seen as a gigantic retcon when really they weren't. They only retconned our own interpretation of events.

We're the only ones saying Joker died, that Tali and Garrus starved... not the game.

This would be a good argument, except Mass Effect takes itself too seriously for such implausibility to be accepted. If ME had been made in the campy spirit of, say, The Fifth Element? Sure, then we could accept that there will be highly improbable twists. But ME is (apparently... ) a sci-fi story that aims for realism. It's not manga/anime.

Modifié par Oof, 02 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[Pobatti]

Oof wrote...

Pobatti wrote...

Then, cue Advent Children. Everyone's still alive. It turns out the entire cast survived the ending of FFVII after all.

You see, it's us that filled in the blanks originally. It was never stated that humanity were killed off, but it was simply so difficult to disprove and there were so many hints in the game towards the fact, that the spinoffs and sequels were seen as a gigantic retcon when really they weren't. They only retconned our own interpretation of events.

We're the only ones saying Joker died, that Tali and Garrus starved... not the game.

This would be a good argument, except Mass Effect takes itself too seriously for such implausibility to be accepted. If ME had been made in the campy spirit of, say, The Fifth Element? Sure, then we could accept that there will be highly improbable twists. But ME is (apparently... ) a sci-fi story that aims for realism. It's not manga/anime.

I'd agree there, except I recall Mass Effect 2 pulling a stunt where the Normandy was destroyed and Shepard was spaced and killed. Only a few scenes stood between there and Shepard being fully back to life, with a second (secretly built) almost identical ship, with most of his crew back with him...

Things can go from pretty much everything's lost, to back where we were before rather quickly :happy:

Modifié par Pobatti, 02 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[Oof]

Pobatti wrote...

Oof wrote...

This would be a good argument, except Mass Effect takes itself too seriously for such implausibility to be accepted. If ME had been made in the campy spirit of, say, The Fifth Element? Sure, then we could accept that there will be highly improbable twists. But ME is (apparently... ) a sci-fi story that aims for realism. It's not manga/anime.

I'd agree there, except I recall Mass Effect 2 pulling a stunt where the Normandy was destroyed and Shepard was spaced and killed.

Only a few scenes stood between there and Shepard being fully back to life, with a second (secretly built) almost identical ship, with most of his crew back with him alive and well...

Things can go from pretty much everything's lost, to back where we were before rather quickly :happy:

Hah. See, this is why I think people are crazy for thinking ME is high art, and this is why I find the whole ME series so amusing. It tries to be something it can't live up to -- serious. It's like a clown with a revolver. Sure, it's got a revolver, but it's still a clown.

I've long ago accepted ME for what it is (and not what it tells me it is): a vaguely entertaining popcorn movie ridden with plotholes and incongruities. And that's okay. I can enjoy that game.

[push2play]

Why are people saying that Bethesda had started something with Broken Steel? They simply caved in to F3 fans screaming bloody murder over the original ending. That they charged for it? Well what did anyone expect them to do? Alter their original idea and develop something else for free? Besides, the ****storm over F3 wasn't about the content as such (you didn't have to die, you could've sacrificed someone else), but rather that the ending was a definite one (i.e. no open world play afterwards) and came a bit out of the blue without much warning. Obsidian pretty much flipped everyone the bird with Fallout:New Vegas doing the same thing, but at least they did warn people ahead of time.

I wouldn't draw parallels with Fallout and Bethesda here, it was a completely different issue.

[XX55XX]

Acrylium wrote...

I promised Liara to come back. I intend to keep my word.

Liara's not real. And yes, she is coming back. In ME3.

[Jerryk72]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Jerryk72 wrote...
RPG's are nothing more than a "Choose Your Own Adventure" Novel with a finite number of choices and outcomes. In the grand scheme of the story it would be unrealistic to have a care bear happy ending after the universe was nearly destroyed. The fact that any civilization survived the war is a plus.

It's a choose your own adventure where the endings are all the same.

And enough with, "it's unrealistic". No, just, you came back from the dead. I repeat, you came back from being a frosty space corpse. You destory a reaper single-handedly in the first game. You have sex with a Turian and I'm pretty sure the chaffing was the least of Shepard's problems. You want realism, try non-fiction.

Fair points about the realism aspect.. As for the endings being the same, I will reserve judgement until I play the game. ME1 had one real ending. The only differences are who you selected for the council and if the current council lived or died,  In ME2 there were two main endings (You live or Die) with a few variables. Who lived, who died in your squad and whether you gave the base to TIM or not. In ME3, I hear there are 3 main endings with regards to the Reapers. The squad plus Shepard are reduced to variables in terms of whether they live or die. In each game, no matter what ending you had, the variables were always presented with the ending. So I can see why people feel "all the endings are the same".  So maybe the happy ending is there but you needed the highest paragon rating to achieve it and its only really attainable via NG+

I guess we will all find out in 3 days 5 hours..

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Ksandor wrote...

That is the DLC concept alright.

Indeed, I once made a youtube video ranting about how his exact kind of DLC exploitation, among other things, is ruinging games as we know them.

[Nayt Navare]

/signed.

[Xtreme-Tiramisu]

Wishful thinking I'd like that too but chances are very slim.

Do remember that it's not just going to be just the BW guys at their studio working on this DLC.

They will also need to hire the voice actors to redo several plots in the storyline. If you changed the past, you're also changing the future. The voice actors will need to come back for more sessions at the recording studio and redo the script.

Those famous faces of actors/actresses have already moved on from their ME3 VG project long ago, i doubt we're going to see them comming back for more work anytime soon.

Remember ME isn't just a video game like 10+ years ago, which only involves in silent dialogues between video game characters. It's not gonna just be like a month work at the BW studio developing the DLC. Major VG titles these days are giving the players a cinematic experience so there will be A LOT of work to be reconsidered and implemented..

[u2rocksbaby]

I would pay $20 for an ending where you get your love interest back. Final offer.

[AdrynBliss]

If they charged for alt endings the internet would catch fire, fall over and sink into the swamp.
Seriously, the possible ramifications are staggering, there would be a sub-cultural explosion and not in a good way, the public backlash would make investors and shareholders nervous about future projects and the whole house of cards goes over.
To admit they screwed up the ending by producing more would be bad enough but to charge for them, while DA2 is still fresh in people's minds, would be a slow painful suicide.

[crimzontearz]

AdrynBliss wrote...If they charged for alt endings the internet would catch fire, fall over and sink into the swamp.Seriously, the possible ramifications are staggering, there would be a sub-cultural explosion and not in a good way, the public backlash would make investors and shareholders nervous about future projects and the whole house of cards goes over.To admit they screwed up the ending by producing more would be bad enough but to charge for them, while DA2 is still fresh in people's minds, would be a slow painful suicide.

don't care......if the endings are not emended I doubt I'd buy any other BW game in the future. what's the point of emotional investment if all is taken away from you? If all they can do is apparently lie about it too?

I'd rather give my money to the emerging studio Vigil and their darksiders 2

[crimzontearz]

oh and yes I forgot



TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE