155 réponses à ce sujet

[vanguard_of_destruction]

NsanlyCrzy wrote...

PC games = for serious adults with skills.

Consoles = dumbed down skilless easy versions for casual gamers.

Simple example:

Racers: Gran Turismo and Forza. Both games pretend to be simulations, but they are arcade. You want a real simulation, play GTR, rFactor, Live for Speed...with a real Wheel, like Logitech G27.

FPS: Consoles have aimbots. Nothing more needs to be said, well except that FPS games are originally designed for Mouse&Keyboard ONLY. Technically every FPS game on console is a PC port, when it comes to controls, because FPS games were invented for PCs and Keyboard&Mouse control games only, before console gaming.

Also EVERY PC player I have met so far had a mic! You just need to open your mouth, if you have something productive to say. 

It SEEMS that console gamers have a mic more often, because most of them are kids or act like kids who have to brabble stuff all the time. 

Again, all about maturity vs kidulthood.

cool stereotyping bro

[Calibisto]

NsanlyCrzy wrote...

PC games = for serious adults with skills.

Consoles = dumbed down skilless easy versions for casual gamers.

Simple example:

Racers: Gran Turismo and Forza. Both games pretend to be simulations, but they are arcade. You want a real simulation, play GTR, rFactor, Live for Speed...with a real Wheel, like Logitech G27.

FPS: Consoles have aimbots. Nothing more needs to be said, well except that FPS games are originally designed for Mouse&Keyboard ONLY. Technically every FPS game on console is a PC port, when it comes to controls, because FPS games were invented for PCs and Keyboard&Mouse control games only, before console gaming.

Also EVERY PC player I have met so far had a mic! You just need to open your mouth, if you have something productive to say. 

It SEEMS that console gamers have a mic more often, because most of them are kids or act like kids who have to brabble stuff all the time. 

Again, all about maturity vs kidulthood.

Sorry, normally I would ignore this, but I find this too funny.
For gods sake, being good at PC gaming doesn' t make you mature. 

I am 37 and I like the controller. Mostly because I play for fun, I got nothing to prove.

[Leeroi]

AreleX wrote...

i'm in awe of the fact that i'm better than all of you (and have been for at least 3 different BW games) and you all still enjoy running your mouths about platform so much.

ROFL nice joke there. :D:D

[BuffPhantoms]

All this kb/m and controller talk has me thinking one thing...

Why did they stick 6 functions on 1 key for Keyboard, which has 100+ keys? Wouldn't that have taken a few minutes of coding to fix?

[granyte]

i just wish that ME3 was cross platform game so we could settle this with a match

[BuffPhantoms]

granyte wrote...

i just wish that ME3 was cross platform game so we could settle this with a match

Well its not exactly down to skill or opinion, one device simply allows a superior degree of speed and sensitivty....which is why several multiplats PCversion has enhanced AI, no magnetic aim, and no auto-aim.

The founder of Voodoo PC, Rahul Sood, says that Microsoft once floated the idea of implementing cross-platform play between the PC and Xbox 360 for a range of titles. Thing is, testing didn’t go so well.The proposal, part of Microsoft’s LIVE push, popped up “many many months ago”, and would have allowed people playing games available on both PC and 360 – like Gears of War – to take each other on. Kind of like 2007 shooter Shadowrun, only people would actually play it.Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn’t compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. “The console players got destroyed every time”, Sood says. “So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative.”

[Greystone]

PC is not easier than console.  PC keyboard+mouse is far, FAR superior to any game controller.  That doesn't make it easier because games are designed for this.  I absolutely guarantee pc insanity run is harder than consoles because the enemies either won't be as accurate or damaging as the pc version since we have such superior aiming control.

I have nothing against consoles.  I'm almost 32 and gamed exclusively on consoles from the atari 2600 to gamecube until around 2000 when I first played on a pentium 3 powered computer.  It was quite a culture shock learning to use mouse and keyboad at first, but now 12 years later I have a hard time playing fps games on consoles not because I can't aim with a controller, but because of how unprecise it is.

There really is no comparison.

The best way I can show the difference is from the first fps game I played in pc multiplayer which was Aliens vs Predator 2 for the pc around 2000.  I predominantly played as a marine and when you fired your rifle you got the best accuracy by weaving the rifle left and right minutely while rapidly tapping the fire button.  Using this technique you could literally instagib enemies from half way across the map with accurate headshots.  Using the sniper rifle in this game you could pull quickscopes that make CoD quick scopes look slow by comparison.

This level of control and precision is impossible to duplicate on a controller.

Don't get me wrong controllers are great for what they are, but I think the next generation of consoles seriously needs to integrate built in keyboard+mouse functionality for all their games.

[AreleX]

Leeroi wrote...

AreleX wrote...

i'm in awe of the fact that i'm better than all of you (and have been for at least 3 different BW games) and you all still enjoy running your mouths about platform so much.

ROFL nice joke there. :D:D

put your money where your mouth is.

[granyte]

BuffPhantoms wrote...

granyte wrote...

i just wish that ME3 was cross platform game so we could settle this with a match

Well its not exactly down to skill or opinion, one device simply allows a superior degree of speed and sensitivty....which is why several multiplats PCversion has enhanced AI, no magnetic aim, and no auto-aim.

The founder of Voodoo PC, Rahul Sood, says that Microsoft once floated the idea of implementing cross-platform play between the PC and Xbox 360 for a range of titles. Thing is, testing didn’t go so well.The proposal, part of Microsoft’s LIVE push, popped up “many many months ago”, and would have allowed people playing games available on both PC and 360 – like Gears of War – to take each other on. Kind of like 2007 shooter Shadowrun, only people would actually play it.Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn’t compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. “The console players got destroyed every time”, Sood says. “So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative.”

i was well aware of that atempt from microsoft and it's exactly what i was talking about

i wish every game was cross platform that would force a couple of the console fanboys to rethink the superiority of thier controler

[Leeroi]

AreleX wrote...

Leeroi wrote...

AreleX wrote...

i'm in awe of the fact that i'm better than all of you (and have been for at least 3 different BW games) and you all still enjoy running your mouths about platform so much.

ROFL nice joke there. :D:D

put your money where your mouth is.

Wahahaha, you're funny. Plz look in my sig. Haven't seen that done on console and most likely won't. Object Rho w/ Vanguard & no cover? Oh yea, that doesn't exist on console either. So... what exactly are your achievements? Everything that's been done on console for Bioware games has been done better & faster on PC.

If you were to VS me in a FPS you'd get absolutely destroyed. So saying stuff like "oh bla bla I'm better than any of the PC gamers" makes you look really really bad (to a degree of being funny). You may be good for a console gamer and I'm not taking that away from you, I've even enjoyed watching some of your vids. But you're pretty far off from achieving the things the best of us can do on PC. 

No wonder LAN party games are played on PC, Battlefield 3's nation's tournament is on PC and so much more. I've no intention of starting a flame war. But you should really look around before flaunting your ego. GL 

Modifié par Leeroi, 02 mars 2012 - 08:41 .

[AreleX]

i simply said 'put your money where your mouth is', as in, don't go into a 3 paragraph diatribe, simply post some 'accomplishment' from this game (or da2 or me2) and i will beat it.

it's funny, you pc players have been telling me for YEARS that the games are 'easier on console' after watching what i do, as a justification for you not being able to do it. accomplishments? how about helping thousands upon thousands of people enjoy a game more, learn more about it, and play it better? you know, something that equates to a bit more than a pissing contest. but if that's what you want, i'll oblige you. i just suggest you stop facing the wind first.

edit:
i don't want a flame war either, and i don't mean for this to be one. i simply say again, 'put your money where your mouth is'.

Modifié par AreleX, 02 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[MoZedK]

Stardusk78 wrote...

It seems every time someone accomplishes something on PC like a solo run, in come Xboxers et al. and say, it's easy, you play on PC. I have no idea since I have never played on the console but I can't imagine it being that much easier. It just sounds like a way of putting people down.

Yes it's "easyer" on PC I have both, and the Mouse is super good for aiming that what makes it "easyer", whilst the thumbstick is not and will never be as precise.

So the Mouse and Keyboard is better in shooters then the Controller on the consoles.

Modifié par MoZedK, 02 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[Leeroi]

AreleX wrote...

it's funny, you pc players have been telling me for YEARS that the games are 'easier on console' after watching what i do, as a justification for you not being able to do it.

Where is this? What have you done for ME2 that we've not been able to?

A speed run of Suicide Mission's first part at 2:31? - Done on PC
Charging & killing 2 YMIR without cover or stasis? - Done on PC
Object Rho vanguard without cover? - Done on PC


Ser Cauthrien fight on DA without potions or retreating? - Done on PC.

I'm happy you've helped a lot of people, that's what all of us should do and I honestly do my best by posting strategy & tactics. But that has never been a point in any of my arguments so I don't even know why you're bringing it up. You wanted achievements, here they are. Now please show me some equivalent for console.


EDIT: Forgot to post sabresandiego's Collector Platform speed run at 1:15 from combat start to finish on Insanity (no flashbang either). Never seen this done on console.

Modifié par Leeroi, 02 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[vanguard_of_destruction]

Leeroi wrote...

AreleX wrote...

it's funny, you pc players have been telling me for YEARS that the games are 'easier on console' after watching what i do, as a justification for you not being able to do it.

Where is this? What have you done for ME2 that we've not been able to?

A speed run of Suicide Mission's first part at 2:31? - Done on PC
Charging & killing 2 YMIR without cover or stasis? - Done on PC
Object Rho vanguard without cover? - Done on PC


Ser Cauthrien fight on DA without potions or retreating? - Done on PC.

I'm happy you've helped a lot of people, that's what all of us should do and I honestly do my best by posting strategy & tactics. But that has never been a point in any of my arguments so I don't even know why you're bringing it up. You wanted achievements, here they are. Now please show me some equivalent for console.

not saying they have been done but who's to say it hasn't been done on console we just haven't heard about it

BSN=/=everyone who plays mass effect
not even close

Modifié par vanguard_of_destruction, 02 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[AreleX]

Defending the hatch (LOTSB), no cover
Dantius Towers (the whole mission, one run), no cover
Mordin Loyalty (the whole mission, one run), no cover


Ancient Rock Wraith, 20 seconds, Nightmare
Hybris, Mage, 2:30, Nightmare
Xebenkeck, 2 minutes, Nightmare, no kiting

come on, man. what bothers me is your (you AND PC players as a whole) false sense of superiority. as long as i'm around, you don't get to walk all over console players for free. not as long as i can do everything you can, except better, in most cases.

Modifié par AreleX, 02 mars 2012 - 09:23 .

[Darkov]

The game is designed to work with the controls, assuming BioWare hasn't ignored the difference then the difficulty will be the same across all machines, it is likely just going to play slightly differently.

I play FPS games on Xbox 360 and PC, and the game is always much slower, less enemies and more favourable to the player on the console, but it needs those handicaps because of the unresponsive controls.

[Leeroi]

vanguard_of_destruction wrote...

not saying they have been done but who's to say it hasn't been done on console we just haven't heard about it

BSN=/=everyone who plays mass effect
not even close

You are right. I wasn't implying that we've seen all the feats accomplished on console with this game, ththere's no denying that. I'm more than certain there are amazingly skilled console gamers out there that can pull some of these off. But using the same logic you can say there's PC gamers that may have done things we aren't aware of either. So to put it in context I'm just talking about the things we've seen - that's why I challenged AreleX to show me some console achievements. Because the ones I listed for PC are easily found on youtube and if you search around on BSN. 

[Kidd]

I play on console, and I'll freely admit that out of competitive point of view, the mouse is superior. My PC is very capable of running ME3, yet I play ME on 360. Why? I love controllers, find the smaller movements more immersive and I like the general console experience where everything just works and everything is centralised.

I think all those used to dual sticks and/or keyboard+mouse ought to try out Metroid Prime 3/Trilogy on the Wii, btw. It's a very interesting experience where you have almost as much control as with a mouse (you can do things like jump, turn 180 degrees and fire at the enemy behind you and turn forward again before you hit the ground, np) and the immersion is through the roof as your wiimote more or less becomes the arm of Samus Aran.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I've always been a console player since I've never had a pc that's up to scratch for gaming, until recently that is. The PC is great for strategy games, that's a no brainer, but it really takes some getting used to when it comes to shooters. The mouse is definitely better for aiming, no arguments there, its the keyboard that really messes me up. Running with wasd is awkward and then having to move to the number keys to use powers messes me up even more.

[vanguard_of_destruction]

Leeroi wrote...

vanguard_of_destruction wrote...

not saying they have been done but who's to say it hasn't been done on console we just haven't heard about it

BSN=/=everyone who plays mass effect
not even close

You are right. I wasn't implying that we've seen all the feats accomplished on console with this game, ththere's no denying that. I'm more than certain there are amazingly skilled console gamers out there that can pull some of these off. But using the same logic you can say there's PC gamers that may have done things we aren't aware of either. So to put it in context I'm just talking about the things we've seen - that's why I challenged AreleX to show me some console achievements. Because the ones I listed for PC are easily found on youtube and if you search around on BSN. 

maybe its just easier for pc to record? i know console's best method of recording or that i know of is a $200 piece of equipment and no other way(yes there are cheaper versions but still some of the stuff can get complicated and your still paying) and i know fraps has a free version. 

Modifié par vanguard_of_destruction, 02 mars 2012 - 09:11 .

[AcidThe Wraith]

vanguard_of_destruction wrote...

AcidThe Wraith wrote...

Aim assist, not aim bot. 

Console without aim assit would be impossible, the thimbsticks are just not presice enough.

PC mouse is literally that much easier to aim with.

not neccessarily some console gamers like myself do turn it off and i have no problem but i do feel as even in some games when you can turn it off there still a small assist there pretty annoying and i don't think it matters as much with third person shooters. console gamers could play just fine without aim assists if they got used to it but not enough games give you the option to turn it off for people to get used to it.

There is not a console shooter to my knowlege that allows you to completely take off aim assist. The option, if availible, just towns it down a bit. 


Shooters need it, or you simply wouldn't be able to hit any thing. Try playing a PC version of a shooter like Halo 2 vista or something similar, and plug an Xbox/PS3 controller into it and see how bad your aim is. Consoles need it. 

[AcidThe Wraith]

NsanlyCrzy wrote...

PC games = for serious adults with skills.

Consoles = dumbed down skilless easy versions for casual gamers.

Simple example:

Racers: Gran Turismo and Forza. Both games pretend to be simulations, but they are arcade. You want a real simulation, play GTR, rFactor, Live for Speed...with a real Wheel, like Logitech G27.

FPS: Consoles have aimbots. Nothing more needs to be said, well except that FPS games are originally designed for Mouse&Keyboard ONLY. Technically every FPS game on console is a PC port, when it comes to controls, because FPS games were invented for PCs and Keyboard&Mouse control games only, before console gaming.

Also EVERY PC player I have met so far had a mic! You just need to open your mouth, if you have something productive to say. 

It SEEMS that console gamers have a mic more often, because most of them are kids or act like kids who have to brabble stuff all the time. 

Again, all about maturity vs kidulthood.

Me and my Halo game say hi.

[vanguard_of_destruction]

AcidThe Wraith wrote...

vanguard_of_destruction wrote...

AcidThe Wraith wrote...

Aim assist, not aim bot. 

Console without aim assit would be impossible, the thimbsticks are just not presice enough.

PC mouse is literally that much easier to aim with.

not neccessarily some console gamers like myself do turn it off and i have no problem but i do feel as even in some games when you can turn it off there still a small assist there pretty annoying and i don't think it matters as much with third person shooters. console gamers could play just fine without aim assists if they got used to it but not enough games give you the option to turn it off for people to get used to it.

There is not a console shooter to my knowlege that allows you to completely take off aim assist. The option, if availible, just towns it down a bit. 


Shooters need it, or you simply wouldn't be able to hit any thing. Try playing a PC version of a shooter like Halo 2 vista or something similar, and plug an Xbox/PS3 controller into it and see how bad your aim is. Consoles need it. 

i have in fact done that and had no problems the only game struggled with is crysis 2  but everyone else was most likely using aim assist so it hard to get used to something when you keep dying plus i didn't enjoy crysis 2 mp that much.

[p3los]

So this turned into a PC vs console thread. Who didn't see that coming?

Anyway, and contributing to the thread:

I started playing the demo on 360 and switched to PC, because I had more friends playing on that platform.
And it is far easier, al least for me.

Aiming with the mouse = twice headshots/hour than Xbox.

[Fortack]

The usual PC vs Console nonsense

OK, let's take a look at the facts - not personal preference or opinion.

1. K&M have superior precision. That gives the player an edge when precision and speed are crucial - K&M are the best controls when one is playing a shooter.

2. This is common knowledge. Go and look through all the ergonomic studies about this subject and you'll find piles of solid scientific data that proves this.

3. The controller used on consoles has never been designed to offer superior control. It has been designed to play games in a casual way (sitting on your sofa, lying in bed or whatever). Anyone who knows a little about design will tell you that designing stuff is about making concessions. The "perfect" design does not exist, you always have to trade one thing for another.

4. A helicopter pilot doesn't use a controller or a K&M because they are inferior; same with a F1 driver, surgical equipment and so on. Every application needs different controls to be used optimally. The analog controller stick has an advantage in certain situations, just like the K&M has. The latter is superior to the former when fast and precise aiming is required.

Obviously, this doesn't mean that anyone using a controller is a "bad" player - there are plenty of people who can kick ass with a controller, and can even outperform many K&M users. But there is no way they can match equally skilled people who use a K&M when playing a shooter.