86 réponses à ce sujet

[squidney2k1]

I'll come down a few notches in the *****ing about the Sentinel:

Just make the Tech Armor's explosion more powerful + knockdown.

That'll make it worthwhile.

[BuffPhantoms]

squidney2k1 wrote...

I'll come down a few notches in the *****ing about the Sentinel:

Just make the Tech Armor's explosion more powerful + knockdown.

That'll make it worthwhile.

MUCH Much more powerful + knockdown.

Remember, It has to be equally as good/usefull as stasis, charge, and cloack -> other classes signature ablities.

[darkblade]

The most effective Human Sentinel build is to be an Asari Adept without stasis, basically for roleplaying purposes and nothing more. There is no reason to be playing one over an AA other than to say "I'm playing a sentinel".

which is fine by me because not everyone likes stasis. its a boring power to me.

Either TechArmor needs some buffing, or Human Sentinel needs a higher shield count. Until then, enjoy your Asari Adept without stasis, because thats exactly what it is. No clue why you are defending such a thing.

Tech armors trees can use a change, one to maximize defense and one to maximize powers, sure but its fine as is for what i use it for.

Defending it because nothing is wrong with the class other then some poeple dont like how tech armor works and it shares a combo with asari adept which makes human sentinel redundant and people are confusing redundant with weak.

Plus some people just hate all the adepts set ups.

Everyone in this thread who described how they "owned" with their Human Sentinel is describing an Asari Adept playstyle to a T, but without stasis. Don't discuss the 30% DR, because that is virtually unnoticable on Silver/GOLD.

Thats a lame way to try and shoe horn the class(and other ability heavy classes) into the area where it can be viewed as inferior. "Yea we are gonna call playstyle X asari adept playstyle even though all casters should be following the idea of low cooldown and biotic/tech combo's."

I dont talk about damage resistance for any class because my style is to get shot as little as possible therefore any DR is better then none.

[Praetor Knight]

I guess if tweaks can still happen to strengthen Tech Armor, here are a few ideas I've been thinking about, that I might as well share after playing the class in the MP demo. And I'm thinking of SP with my suggestions. Dunno how different the powers could be between the two atm.

So, I like the idea of a longer stun and range on TA detonation for sure. And the min range should be at least 10 meters IMHO, not 3 meters (But, I'd settle for 7.5 meters base range, like in ME2).

Then, maybe something else to consider is changing the level 6 evolutions where one is: TA detonation gives a 50% shield boost afterwards (instead of adding 10% in damage reduction) and the second evolution is: a halving of the cooldown penalty at 40% (instead of the current 30% cooldown).

Also, the level 5 melee bonus has me wondering if there could be an alternative there, where we could instead get another radius and force x% boost choice against the 20% Power and Force Boost with TA active.

I'd then increase the level 4 damage reduction evolution to 10% or 15%, instead of the current 5% to make that choice harder to make, against the increased force and radius if TA can stun most enemies longer and have a larger base radius.

Other than that, I dunno.


Edit:

TL;DR and clarity.

I'd like to make these five possible suggestions for TA.

1). Increase base radius to at least 7.5 meters like in ME2.
2). Have a longer stun or knockdown effect on protected and unprotected enemies.
3). Increase Level 4 evolution of damage reduction to 10 or 15%.
4). Change Level 5 evolution of melee damage to another x% boost of Power and Force boost with TA active.
5). Change Level 6 evolutions to be between a TA detonation gives a 50% shield boost afterwards or a halving of the cooldown penalty at 40%.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 02 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[darkblade]

BuffPhantoms wrote...

squidney2k1 wrote...

I'll come down a few notches in the *****ing about the Sentinel:

Just make the Tech Armor's explosion more powerful + knockdown.

That'll make it worthwhile.

MUCH Much more powerful + knockdown.

Remember, It has to be equally as good/usefull as stasis, charge, and cloack -> other classes signature ablities.

So a constant damage buff/defense buff that can work as an emergancy exploding bubble isnt enough?

The DR can be raised to 50% if it must.
The bonus damage can be raised to 45% if it must.
Its detonation damage can be close to nova's if it must. 

But at the same time Asari adept needs to lose throw or warp. probably give the class throw and pull or pull and shockwave or shockwave and warp. so that it cant over lap with the human sentinel.

[Sabresandiego]

One effective way to play sentinel on gold is to specialize entirely for warp explosions, putting no points into fitness at all. I have been doing well playing this way.

[darkblade]

So, I like the idea of a longer stun and range on TA detonation for sure. And the min range should be at least 10 meters IMHO, not 3 meters (But, I'd settle for 7.5 meters base range, like in ME2).

Thats freaking huge!!! 10 meters dude might as well make tech armor a room clearing nuke.

More stun? why, you get about the same amount of stun as you get when you hit a shielded enemy with throw...you dont need more detonating your armor should be a last ditch OH S*** move to give you a breather so you can escape. not a death sentence for enemies in the room.

[darkblade]

Sabresandiego wrote...

One effective way to play sentinel on gold is to specialize entirely for warp explosions, putting no points into fitness at all. I have been doing well playing this way.

you can still manage a 4 in fitness if you do that 

[goofyomnivore]

The DR can be raised to 50% if it must.
The bonus damage can be raised to 45% if it must.
Its detonation damage can be close to nova's if it must.

The DR is only 40% and it isn't noticeable on Gold.
Bonus damage is 40% and a pretty nice buff. However is 40% damage as awesome as it appears with a 30% cooldown restriction?
Nova is like 600 damage + pierce. Tech Armor is barely 400? Nova also doesn't cost a cooldown.

The human sentinel isn't bad I'd say better than the Turian personally, but it is just a poor man's Asari Adept.

Modifié par strive, 02 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[Praetor Knight]

darkblade wrote...

So, I like the idea of a longer stun and range on TA detonation for sure. And the min range should be at least 10 meters IMHO, not 3 meters (But, I'd settle for 7.5 meters base range, like in ME2).

Thats freaking huge!!! 10 meters dude might as well make tech armor a room clearing nuke.

More stun? why, you get about the same amount of stun as you get when you hit a shielded enemy with throw...you dont need more detonating your armor should be a last ditch OH S*** move to give you a breather so you can escape. not a death sentence for enemies in the room.

No harm discussing at this point since these threads will keep popping up.

And game scale might be different then actual scale anyway. And the 7.5 is from ME2: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Tech_Armor#Power_Ranks

[Sabresandiego]

Sentinel is very decent class, right in the middle of the pack in terms of effectiveness. If I were to rate the classes it would be

1. Salarian Infiltrator
2. Asari Adept
3. Human Vanguard
4. Human Infiltrator
5. Human Engineer
6. Human Sentinel
7. Human Adept
8. Turian Sentinel
9. Krogan Soldier
10. Drell Vanguard
11. Human Soldier
12. Quarian Engineer

[goofyomnivore]

I wish they wouldn't of put that melee upgrade in the evolutions. 30% melee damage is so worthless. If you want melee damage use the fitness tree it has more than enough. I would of slid Durability(10% boost) into rank 5's evolution in place of it, and made a better rank 6 evolution for tank sentinels. Maybe like a 40% health and shield boost for 4s? Sorta like a Last Stand ability you see in MMOs for tanks I guess.

Modifié par strive, 02 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[Syrus101]

er... I like the human sentinel.... I dont know about the Turian because the stupid booster packs refuse to give me it!!!! T_T

just max defence/shields and max out throw with time reduction and dmg. with some investment in warp. and your basically a more tanky version of the adept. works just fine for me if not its one of my best classes.

[goofyomnivore]

Sentinel is very decent class, right in the middle of the pack in terms of effectiveness. If I were to rate the classes it would be

It is a good class. Better than most give it credit for, but due to the nature of multiplayer and only three abilities being allowed. Hybridization is really killing the Sentinel. As it stands the human is always an inferior Asari Adept and the Turian likewise with the Human Engineer. And there really isn't a viable tank path. I'm sure the Krogan will be able to tank great if the DRs stack.

[Nyadnar17]

I am going to have to disagree with anyone who thinks the Turian Sentinel is not tanky.

[darkblade]

No harm discussing at this point since these threads will keep popping up.

And game scale might be different then actual scale anyway. And the 7.5 is from ME2: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Tech_Armor#Power_Ranks

Im aware of Tech armors range in ME 2. I apolgize I thought you were talking actual meters not assuming ME2 scaling however ive noticed that ME3s scaling is slightly different. 2 meter radius buff casues moves like throw to hit targets withing a human sized(shoulder to shoulder) bubble around the main target.

Nova has a five meter range, i think thats a good range for tech armors explosion.

The DR is only 40% and it isn't noticeable on Gold.
Bonus damage is 40% and a pretty nice buff. However is 40% damage as awesome as it appears with a 30% cooldown restriction?

Nova is like 600 damage + pierce. Tech Armor is barely 400? Nova also doesn't cost a cooldown.

The human sentinel isn't bad I'd say better than the Turian personally, but it is just a poor man's Asari Adept.

Pushing the damage resistance too far will break the power 50% is already half damage per shot, 40% is a big chunk of damage shaved as well. I believe that the damage resistance isnt whats at fault whats at at fault is how much fire the player is allowing himself to be exposed to and enemies rates of fire. When you can keep the number to 2 or three enemies shooting at you while having them CC with throw you will see the difference. But when its like 5 people shooting you with no control happening it seems kinda sorry.
Plus from Playing some golds and silvers i can say that i honestly dont think more DR with help that much, Most things that chop you up with do it even if your DR was 70%. Might give you another half second against a turrent and it might let you take another shot from a phantoms hand cannon.
I believe that abilities to maximized the tech armors defense in different ways would be better.

Like say an ability that makes it so that when you shield is breached Tech armor bursts and gives your shield back.

or an ability that doesnt let attacks take you shield down past certain check points instantly. (ie a single Nemesis shot cant 1 shot the shield it instead leaves 1/4 shield.)

Or a ability that raises defense in correlation to the amount of gunfight your taking.

Nova also causes you to sacrifice your shield and is made for offensive aggressive play.
Tech armor detonation is suppose to be a last ditch effort to escape, plus you keep your shield. When you detonate tech armor you should start running.

[BuffPhantoms]

Syrus101 wrote...
 
just max defence/shields and max out throw with time reduction and dmg. with some investment in warp. and your basically a more tanky version of the adept. works just fine for me if not its one of my best classes.

On silver/gold, you aren't a more tanky version of adept. You are an adept without stasis.  There is no tanking on those difficulties with a human-sentinal, except for maybe the first 3 waves of Silver.

 
Also, the "upcomming balance" sticked thread gives me hope, I dind't think BW were going to really care that much.  But I hope to be proven wrong. 

Modifié par BuffPhantoms, 02 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[squidney2k1]

strive wrote...

The DR can be raised to 50% if it must.
The bonus damage can be raised to 45% if it must.
Its detonation damage can be close to nova's if it must.

The DR is only 40% and it isn't noticeable on Gold.
Bonus damage is 40% and a pretty nice buff. However is 40% damage as awesome as it appears with a 30% cooldown restriction?
Nova is like 600 damage + pierce. Tech Armor is barely 400? Nova also doesn't cost a cooldown.

The human sentinel isn't bad I'd say better than the Turian personally, but it is just a poor man's Asari Adept.

^This. And that's the main issue. Other class powers (Adrenaline Rush, Fortification, etc) can give higher defensive (and offensive at the same time!) boosts than Tech Armor, with shorter cooldowns and smaller cooldown penalties. And the best thing? You can have both, whereas Tech Armor forces you to choose.


I understand the idea behind the new, nerfed Tech Armor in order to limit it as an "always on, free bonus." But it's just not worthwhile, and unlike other classes, it's not that useful, especially at lower ranks. For something that's supposed to be so powerful in both defense and offense (explosion), it's actually very weak compared to other classes, with it's weak max blast dmg/force (400) and weak defensive bonus (40% reduction if you max).

It doesn't matter where the buff happens, but it's hard to argue against the idea of a buff period. Since I like the idea of Tech Armor being more situational, I think that it just needs a explosive damage/force boost when you detonate it. You still have all of the main drawbacks, but there's little point at the moment for detonating it in CQB when you can simply fire off Warp which has twice the damage, half the recharge speed, and severe knockback.


Think about it...how often do you detonate Tech Armor out of sheer strategy/reaction? I bet it's less than 5% of the time, compared to when you go out of your way & remember, "hey, I have this other power that I never use. Let me kill the last guy using it for ****s & giggles."

[goofyomnivore]

Pushing the damage resistance too far will break the power 50% is already half damage per shot, 40% is a big chunk of damage shaved as well. I believe that the damage resistance isnt whats at fault whats at at fault is how much fire the player is allowing himself to be exposed to and enemies rates of fire. When you can keep the number to 2 or three enemies shooting at you while having them CC with throw you will see the difference.

The only threats to you on Gold are Phantoms, Atlas, Turrets and Nemesis 40% DR doesn't do squat versus those, so the benefit of having it is on is zilch. A mob of Centurions and Assault Troopers are going to do serious damage regardless of your DR, but if you find yourself swarmed that is more of your fault than the armor's. The only time you see the DR is when you are one on one situations with Assault Troopers, that is a rare and insignificant occurrence.

Nova also causes you to sacrifice your shield and is made for offensive aggressive play.

Nova when evolved right along side Charge has its weakness completely negated. There is no way to do that for Tech Armor. Nova/Charge is more powerful than ME2 Tech Armor honestly.

Plus from Playing some golds and silvers i can say that i honestly dont think more DR with help that much, Most things that chop you up with do it even if your DR was 70%.

To get the DR to pay off you need high health and shields (Krogan Sentinel). The Turian can get there sorta, but the human can't at all. I believe tank Sentinel will be quite viable on the Krogan and Shepard, and that is why it is how it is. Any stronger and it would be 'overpowered' for them. So the human and turian just have to play caster, but the thing is caster Sentinel is a mess with only three abilities to work off of.

[bwg888]

BuffPhantoms wrote...

On silver/gold, you aren't a more tanky version of adept. You are an adept without stasis.  There is no tanking on those difficulties with a human-sentinal, except for maybe the first 3 waves of Silver.

After recently downloading the demo and trying the sentinel, I just now googled general info or opinions on the sentinel, and this is like the third thread where you keep pushing this point, lol. You're really really determined

[goofyomnivore]

Well it is pretty much true. The human sentinel is an Asari Adept without Stasis in exchange for a situational 2 second immunity plus enemy stagger that requires the enemy to be within 5m.

Modifié par strive, 02 mars 2012 - 02:53 .

[magor1988x]

I haven't had massive problems as a human sentinel on Silver/Gold. (I haven't had the flippin luck to unlock any other kind) Throw comes in handy *if you use it in coordination with other powers*

Fully specced throw has a ridiculously short CD (I carry an AR & a shotty & still have a sub 3s CD) & when combined with almost any other biotic power it becomes devastating. It works wonders on Guardians, can stun an Atlas.... The major downside to a Human Sent is that they have no ability to take down shields. (Which is why I use an AR & a shotty)

I do wish they'd buff Tech Armor some, either increase the damage or add a short 2-3 second stun, but other than that I haven't found myself at an extreme disadvantage on my lvl 20 Human Sent.

[Kungfu Nando]

Cyonan wrote...

The thing about this is, I can do the exact same thing on my Soldier. If i'm a Krogan Soldier, I even get Fortification which provides me with almost as much damage reduction(And being Krogan, I have higher shields than you do as human), and only gives me a 60% penalty to cooldowns instead of 80%.

Human Sentinels can still be good when played by a good player, any class can. It's just that there's usually another class that's more effective at whatever you're doing as a Human Sentinel

Isn't that the point of a sent originally before they got superpowered in 2, jack of all trades master of nothing? Slowly using mixed powers to take anything and everything presented at us down no matter what defense, just not as well as a adept or engineer?  THAT however is not to say that they should either reduce the cooldown cost by 10% or increase damage reduction by the same and defo a stun or bigger knockback in the armor detenation. It doesn't need a massive boost just a small tweak.  To be honest the power recharge is not even my biggest gripe its the very weak damage reduction, 40% is far to low. Sentinels have never been heavy gun user imo to make up for the armor and the ability to handle anything throw at us, so its easy to work around by just carrying one weapon. Give us 60% fully evolved armor to balance things out and make it stand out more from fortification.

So all in all i think we really need is no recharge for detenating armor, just activating it, more damage reduction and for players to use the new weapon weight system to work around the recharge boost. 

I play as a human sent and as far as points go I'm either normal first on any difficulty with pugs, and ALWAYS second with my friends who all play a certain class when were together, Which outta a infiltraitor, vanguard and adept ain't that bad. HOWEVER I normal die more that even the vanguard which imo is wrong, very wrong.  They're ment to be high risk high reward.... i should live longer he should kill more

[darkblade]

The only threats to you on Gold are Phantoms, Atlas, Turrets and Nemesis 40% DR doesn't do squat versus those, so the benefit of having it is on is zilch. A mob of Centurions and Assault Troopers are going to do serious damage regardless of your DR, but if you find yourself swarmed that is more of your fault than the armor's. The only time you see the DR is when you are one on one situations with Assault Troopers, that is a rare and insignificant occurrence.

Exactly. the things that are a threat wouldnt be any less threat with a higher DR. A turrent will still gun you down, phantoms can still one shot you atlas mechs will still likely 1 shot your shields simply because thats what they do.

Also i dont agree with that, maybe i have higher perception speed but i can definitely see the difference that tech armor makes even with only 625 hp and shields. Im definitely a little more bold against mooks with tech armor up. I guess i can take advantage of that small protection better then some people.

Nova when evolved right along side Charge has its weakness completely negated. There is no way to do that for Tech Armor. Nova/Charge is more powerful than ME2 Tech Armor honestly.

well the difference there is i never perceived tech armors "weakness" as a weakness no more then i considered warps cooldown as a weakness. Ive always looked at it as a vest of grenades that stops some damage all the time, makes my powers stronger and can explode if i need it to. It has a cooldown but whatever, so does charge and stasis but neither of them can be on all the time. The fact that i have to detonate at all is player error and i should be punished.

To get the DR to pay off you need high health and shields (Krogan Sentinel). The Turian can get there sorta, but the human can't at all. I believe tank Sentinel will be quite viable on the Krogan and Shepard, and that is why it is how it is. Any stronger and it would be 'overpowered' for them. So the human and turian just have to play caster, but the thing is caster Sentinel is a mess with only three abilities to work off of.

Agree with the first part which is why its evolutions should include more paths that give a static buff to powers.

Dont agree with the second part i dont see the mess...please in all seriousness show me. Two powerful biotic powers that combo well on short cooldowns that pretty much destroy everything between you and your goal. I just dont see the mess....

[darkblade]

I play as a human sent and as far as points go I'm either normal first on any difficulty with pugs, and ALWAYS second with my friends who all play a certain class when were together, Which outta a infiltraitor, vanguard and adept ain't that bad. HOWEVER I normal die more that even the vanguard which imo is wrong, very wrong. They're ment to be high risk high reward.... i should live longer he should kill more

You might be over pushing...you have to find that happy place between aggression and support.