86 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

Also i dont agree with that, maybe i have higher perception speed but i can definitely see the difference that tech armor makes even with only 625 hp and shields.

To each their own. I never notice nor miss it when playing aggressively. I do notice the quicker Overloads and Warps though.

well the difference there is i never perceived tech armors "weakness" as a weakness no more then i considered warps cooldown as a weakness.

The only reason I brought up Nova was because you were comparing it to Tech Armor or something. I was just stating the high risk of Nova is negligible. Nova is much better than Tech Armor is for offense and defense for a human and turian.

Dont agree with the second part i dont see the mess...please in all seriousness show me. Two powerful biotic powers that combo well on short cooldowns that pretty much destroy everything between you and your goal. I just dont see the mess....

The mess for the caster sentinel has is its role filled better by the Asari Adept and Human Engineer. They're inferior versions of that. If the Tech Armor had a benefit for them they could bring something else to the table. But 30% DR isn't going to do anything especially at the cost of 50% worse cooldowns. They can't 'Jack of all Trades' because they have a limited skill sett and their health/shield pool is too small to benefit significantly from Tech Armor.  Basically and Asari Adept and Human Engineer bring better offense and defense than the Sentinel. It has nothing to do with the Sentinel's power. They're viable, but they are worse than the two pure classes in every aspect.

Modifié par strive, 02 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[Kungfu Nando]

darkblade wrote...

I play as a human sent and as far as points go I'm either normal first on any difficulty with pugs, and ALWAYS second with my friends who all play a certain class when were together, Which outta a infiltraitor, vanguard and adept ain't that bad. HOWEVER I normal die more that even the vanguard which imo is wrong, very wrong. They're ment to be high risk high reward.... i should live longer he should kill more

You might be over pushing...you have to find that happy place between aggression and support.

I think you miss read that, i am happy to be just second amongst my friends as a sentinel, it fitting, what isn't is to be the only one with protect and die the most on harder difficulties, but i do suppose that is up to playstyle aswell. I always thought of the vanguard as the one who should kick the bucket the most because of their classes playstyle.

Our infiltraitor is the one that survives the longest.. even with the sometimes glitchy cloak

[nipsen]

...weird stuff..

..I think the sentinel is the second best class (after Infiltrator ), and it's also one of the most entertaining and versatile classes you can play. Either you can spec it for direct assault, and focus on the tech-armor and fitness. Then you have high shield soak, as well as a detonation ability - and force-powers. Such as throw if you take down the barriers on the phantoms. Or pick warp with armor and shield penetration, and expose.

Or - you can spec it for powers and force (only human sentinels). Focus on increased combo detonation, alliance training - and then maybe towards the end go for tech-armor with the power-bonus. Then you have something that will blow up a group of enemies in close and ranged combat, as well as something where you can stagger any target at close range. Pick one relatively light weapon, and by level 14 or so, you can outperform most other classes, as well as serve as support to detonate your own warps, but also lifts, singularity and so on that other people throw.

Often get the highest score in the group with that class. But you can also literally stop and stagger an Atlas, and a group of enemies around it at the same time -- and then deploy shield and retreat... or charge, if you feel like doing that..

There are a lot of much worse classes in the game as well.. The Hanar float-assault can take on everything, obviously, but with the normal classes, Sentinel is a strong class, and it becomes very powerful by level 20.

[darkblade]

The only reason I brought up Nova was because you were comparing it to Tech Armor or something. I was just stating the high risk of Nova is negligible. Nova is much better than Tech Armor is for offense and defense for a human and turian.

I brought it up because they wanted to make the detonation range and damage comparable to Nova which i didnt agree with as it undermines the purpose of the detonation. It can have larger range to help you escape sure but you really shouldnt be trying to kill people with it as if it were nova. Nova is "better" for defense because it can kill easier and has invincibility frames(unfair) and can be cancelled for nigh invulnerability(unfair).

To each their own. I never notice nor miss it when playing aggressively. I do notice the quicker Overloads and Warps though.

It is noticeable, but throw on a 1 sec cooldown and war on a 2.5 with armor on is completely bearable to me. plus i enjoy the extra 20% power damage from my tech armor.

The mess for the caster sentinel has is its role filled better by the Asari Adept and Human Engineer. They're inferior versions of that.

I dont believe that what i do believe is that.
-Asari adept is encroaching on the human sentinel because it too has warp and throw. It needs to lose one of those powers.
- Human engineer is just a solid class, its good against everything.

They're inferior versions of that. If the Tech Armor had a benefit for them they could bring something else to the table. But 30% DR isn't going to do anything especially at the cost of 50% worse cooldowns. They can't 'Jack of all Trades' because they have a limited skill sett and their health/shield pool is too small to benefit significantly from Tech Armor. Basically and Asari Adept and Human Engineer bring better offense and defense than the Sentinel. It has nothing to do with the Sentinel's power. They're viable, but they are worse than the two pure classes in every aspect.

Im sorry but we will have to agree to disagree, i honestly cannot see where you are coming from here.

i simply cant see that the classes people say are much better are better when i can survive where they die, succeed where they fail, and consistently perform as well as they do.

If they were so much better i should have to work hard and i should get out scored by more often and by larger margins....

i absolutely cannot see that the human sentinel sucks.

[shumworld]

Whose responsible for nerfing the Tech Shield. It was so awesome in ME2.

[nipsen]

shumworld wrote...

Whose responsible for nerfing the Tech Shield. It was so awesome in ME2.

Who was.. who is..

But that's a good point. The only way you can really use it as a shield now is to buff fitness. Maybe another solution to this would have been to have the armor soak a set amount of damage, and then detonate if it breaks.

Makes a lot of sense to have it that way, doesn't it. Almost like that worked perfectly fine in a different game or something like that.. 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I have no idea why Tech Armor increases the cooldown of your abilities. It makes zero sense and turns a great ability into an ability you actively want to avoid using if at all possible.

But hey, I guess it's ok that a class that has been primarily a caster in the past 2 games is now a vanilla-flavored damage shield that uses no abilities at all. /eyeroll

[goofyomnivore]

It is noticeable, but throw on a 1 sec cooldown and war on a 2.5 with armor on is completely bearable to me. plus i enjoy the extra 20% power damage from my tech armor.

Tech Armor does nothing versus the 'tough enemies' and honestly anything you notice from two or three assault troopers is a placebo, or pointless anyways, since Assault Troopers die easy no matter what. I guess if you invest into Fitness fully you may see something, but then you lose out on Throw, Alliance Training or Warp being maxed which will hurt a lot more than a passive 300 shield boost (which is essentially all 30% DR is).

I dont believe that what i do believe is that.

i simply cant see that the classes people say are much better are better when i can survive where they die, succeed where they fail, and consistently perform as well as they do.

Asari Adept is encroaching? Serious? How is Stasis vs Tech Armor even comparable. The Asari Adept stomps all over the Sentinel. The Human Engineer does the same role as caster Sentinel with better cooldowns, dps cc and defense. Playing a Sentinel is viable and can be fun, but I don't think any sane person would take Tech Armor over Combat Drone or Stasis for offense or defense.

i absolutely cannot see that the human sentinel sucks.

You're not getting it. I'm not saying they 'suck'. I'm saying they're inferior to other options.

If they were so much better i should have to work hard and i should get out scored by more often and by larger margins....

Score is not everything. I can join a random Gold game and get first or second with a human soldier, but does that doesn't make it a superior class than the ones I played with.

Modifié par strive, 02 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[eschaeron]

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

I have no idea why Tech Armor increases the cooldown of your abilities. It makes zero sense and turns a great ability into an ability you actively want to avoid using if at all possible.

But hey, I guess it's ok that a class that has been primarily a caster in the past 2 games is now a vanilla-flavored damage shield that uses no abilities at all. /eyeroll

Really depends. I finished Mass effect 2 on Insanity with one, and I used it as an invincible tank. Assault Tech-Armor meant I could get up close, and when they blew my shield I only had to recast it. I only rarely used powers, since I was recasting it all the time. Must have died like 3 times total, so over-tanky was I.

[himegoto]

to OP, quit whining and learn to play.
you can look at the skill lists and the damage and so on and get a general idea to determine how to effective spec the charcter.
seriously, its not rocket science. all of these human sentinel is weak threads just make me sick. I also played ME2. but this is ME3. not 2. 3.
in the case of human sentinel, you specced him like crap, he is crap.

[Navasha]

My human sentinel works just fine. Seems as good as many of the other classes. Max out throw and warp, keep your cooldowns low and you can sling those things faster than you can shoot.

[SuperADJ]

I really enjoy playing as a Human Sentinel, but completely agree the Tech Shield needs to be improved. I foolishly upgraded it to lvl 5, and now find I never even activate it. Instead I take a Mattock with 4x scope and pretend I'm an adept. Actually, I think this class could be better than the Human Adept if the points are used correctly. Singularity is unimpressive (at least vs Cerberus) and warp-throw is awesome. There's not a single type of enemy that can cause me real grief.

But then I don't have the Asari Adept yet, if I did I can see that this class would be pointless. I guess I may have slightly better melee (unless the AA gets those options and they are viable) but that's a poor substitute for stasis.

Now, if they got rid of the cooldown penalty completely, and maybe upped the DR to 50% it'd make the class worthy of consideration. Maybe detonation could keep the low damage but add a mandatory stun so it could be used as a life-saver once in a while, perhaps with the caveat that the DR drops by 10% per detonation?

Seems ridiculous that the classes defining feature, the Tech Shield, isn't even used by most players!

TL;DR -

1) Having a class whose defining ability (Tech Shield) isn't used much is proof something is wrong
2) Eliminate the Tech Shield cooldown penalty completely
3) Keep Detonation damage as is, but add a stun that impacts everything within, say, 5m
4) Increase DR to 50%, but reduce this figure by 10% per Detonation

[Kakaw]

Guglio08 wrote...

In my own testing, I specced the Human Sentinel with Armor Detonation and Power Speed Reduction, and used Throw to just kill the mooks, but really, outside of Bronze I doubt that does any really damage. Humans are already more fragile than the Turian and Krogan counterparts. For Turian, I went with damage sponging and ran around hipfiring the revenant, which was vastly more successful.

So I think the following changes would make the Sentinel in general a better class:

- Give the Human Sentinel a tech power instead of two biotic powers. Tech Armor itself is not a tech power.

I just love the Sentinel so much in ME2, I don't know why it has to suck in ME3.

Aside from the tech armor, which I'm not too big a fan of atm, I think you misunderstand the power of the human sentinel. On one side you could give him a tech power that isn't overload and make him much worse than he currently is; or you keep him as is (giving him overload arguable makes him identical to the turian and so has no purpose). The point in having warp + throw is that warp is castable on any enemy (not sure if atlas get the debuff, but w/e), it works on health, shields, barriers (but not armor? idk), point is, you detonate your warp . See a engineer with shields up? Great, throw warp followed by throw and voilla, you got yourself a detonation. It's very easy and argueably a more potent combo than what the human adept can put forth. Add to that the very decent and fast spamming damage capabilities of single throws, (which the human adept does not have). Which just tells me that you haven't really understood your class fully.

[Sharrack]

They should just exchange techarmor with energy drain on the human Sentinel. Problem with changing the DR on tech armor is that it would also impact the turian with his in comparison sick amount of shields.

EDIT: Another way would be to heal a flat amount (not depending on max shields) of shield upon activation of tech armor.

Modifié par Sharrack, 02 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[Shampoohorn]

SuperADJ wrote...

I really enjoy playing as a Human Sentinel, but completely agree the Tech Shield needs to be improved. I foolishly upgraded it to lvl 5, and now find I never even activate it. Instead I take a Mattock with 4x scope and pretend I'm an adept. Actually, I think this class could be better than the Human Adept if the points are used correctly. Singularity is unimpressive (at least vs Cerberus) and warp-throw is awesome. There's not a single type of enemy that can cause me real grief.

But then I don't have the Asari Adept yet, if I did I can see that this class would be pointless. I guess I may have slightly better melee (unless the AA gets those options and they are viable) but that's a poor substitute for stasis.

Now, if they got rid of the cooldown penalty completely, and maybe upped the DR to 50% it'd make the class worthy of consideration. Maybe detonation could keep the low damage but add a mandatory stun so it could be used as a life-saver once in a while, perhaps with the caveat that the DR drops by 10% per detonation?

Seems ridiculous that the classes defining feature, the Tech Shield, isn't even used by most players!

TL;DR -

1) Having a class whose defining ability (Tech Shield) isn't used much is proof something is wrong
2) Eliminate the Tech Shield cooldown penalty completely
3) Keep Detonation damage as is, but add a stun that impacts everything within, say, 5m
4) Increase DR to 50%, but reduce this figure by 10% per Detonation

Yeah, definitely agree with this.  Tech armor maxed for detonation feels less usefull than my asari adept's zero cooldown heavy melee.  I just gave my lvl20 human sentinel a spin on silver last night (usually play turian) and it was uninspiring.  I was really focusing on armor detonation and it was ineffective at crowd control, killing, opening an escape route, etc. 

The most glaring weakness of the human sentinal came out against phantoms.  Biotic attacks boost her barrier so warp&throw are useless.  Armor detonation seems to have no effect if she has barriers on and otherwise interrupts her so briefly that it 's useless too.  Strategy was guns or running away, which I don't have to do with any other character.

Two things I'd change about the (human) sentinel:
1)  Give tech armor a legitimate stun/force evolution
2)  Replace either warp or throw with lift grenade.  Even though it's a biotic effect it at least feels like a tech power.  Plus it makes them alot more useful at crowd control.

[Nyadnar17]

Tech Armor just has problems and is counter-intuitive.

1) The DR is not useful at early levels and is sub-par on the human Sentinel even at high levels. I am sure at the end of the main game with all the shield upgrades and high level Tech Armor's DR will be boss, but that doesn't help out the human Sentinel in multiplayer.

2) The Detonation in and of itself is not very good. When you add the fact that it triggers your cooldowns onto of the low damage and lack of stun/knock down its feels very unsatisfying.

3) This is a personal pet-pev, but I hate dieing with Tech Armor on. I really miss Tech Armor breaking when you took enough damage. I understand that non-breaking DR Tech Armor is more powerful than the breakable type, but it doesn't feel very good.


Edit:
Also a Sentinel that has no-tech abilities seems to defeat the idea of the class.

Modifié par Nyadnar17, 02 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[Thoragoros]

SuperADJ wrote...

1) Having a class whose defining ability (Tech Shield) isn't used much is proof something is wrong
2) Eliminate the Tech Shield cooldown penalty completely
3) Keep Detonation damage as is, but add a stun that impacts everything within, say, 5m
4) Increase DR to 50%, but reduce this figure by 10% per Detonation

This.

[shumworld]

What I liked about the tech shield in ME2 was that it would blow up if it took enough damage and would late give you a full recharge of your normal shields. Vanguard's gain fully recharged barriers after they connect with a Biotic Charge, why can't the same be done for Sentinels. Like once they're tech-shield detonates, they'll have fully recharged normal shields.

[darkblade]

Tech Armor does nothing versus the 'tough enemies' and honestly anything you notice from two or three assault troopers is a placebo, or pointless anyways, since Assault Troopers die easy no matter what. I guess if you invest into Fitness fully you may see something, but then you lose out on Throw, Alliance Training or Warp being maxed which will hurt a lot more than a passive 300 shield boost (which is essentially all 30% DR is).

IDK what you consider tough, but any enemy on gold is manageable plus the same things that hit hard would only hit slightly less hard with more DR and if they hit that hard any way you should be trying to flank them/re position and kill them. Unless its an atlas a phantom or a nemesis im not worrying about it. and those enemies are probably gonna 1-2 shot your shield anyway. regardless. So id rather have noticeable resistance against the things that are sending a stream of gunfire at me then trying to get enough resistance to negate the impact of enemies whose sole purpose is to get rid of my shield, trying to buff up to that lvl of DR with just turn the sentinel into a super tank.

Those enemies that die fast will still chop your shield and health up in short order on gold...faster then if you didnt have the tech armor.

Alliance training doesnt need to be maxed for Human sentinel especially if you dont plan on using anything heavier then a tempest.
Fitness doesnt even need to go past three, but i have a 4 in it because the final evolution on Tech armor are worthless to me.
Warp and throw are both maxed.

Asari Adept is encroaching? Serious? How is Stasis vs Tech Armor even comparable. The Asari Adept stomps all over the Sentinel.

Quit half reading and youd have seen that its not encroaching because of those abilities.....its encroaching because of warp and throw.

The Asari Adept stomps all over the Sentinel. The Human Engineer does the same role as caster Sentinel with better cooldowns, dps cc and defense.

Like i said we can continue this back and forth forever or we can agree to disagree because i dont see it, and i wont see until i play with someone of the same skill lvl as me who is using those classes and i either cant compete with they're efficiency or they are badly outscoring me and i cant keep up.

Ive seen no hard evidence that the class cant compete at the same lvl, thus im concluding that its just a bunch of people who really cant play human sentinel who are complaining about it.

but I don't think any sane person would take Tech Armor over Combat Drone or Stasis for offense or defense.

Like me? because i hate both classes that use drone and stasis.....

Two things I'd change about the (human) sentinel:
1) Give tech armor a legitimate stun/force evolution
2) Replace either warp or throw with lift grenade. Even though it's a biotic effect it at least feels like a tech power. Plus it makes them alot more useful at crowd control.

Great way to kill human sentinel DPS by giving them a limited resource as a main attacking ability.

Strategy was guns or running away, which I don't have to do with any other character.

she dodges or absorbs almost every power that comes at her unless its instant like overload and energy drain. That leave most classes with only the gun her down direct approach or leave.

also the absorb only happens so often throw, then warp, then throw, then throw while shooting at her and she dies like its nothing.

Also wasnt the biggest argument about things not need balance changes because "we havent seen all the factions" Phantoms f*** over every biotic power that isnt reave, stasis, singularity, charge or nova.

[Grunt420]

M-98 Widow makes every class FUN even the Sentinel

[Knight_Quack]

I agree, tech armor should be buffed up, not in damage reduction but in cooldown reduction or detonation stun, something like that.

[Dasher1010]

Since it shares powers with the Asari Adept, I just max tech armor and fitness and then use powers as a backup. The Turian is a power spammer who has tech armor as a backup but the human is meant to be a close-quarters biotic but play differently than the vanguard.

[goofyomnivore]

and those enemies are probably gonna 1-2 shot your shield anyway. regardless.

That is the problem it gives no benefit to the only real threats, so it is pointless to have it on later waves.

So id rather have noticeable resistance against the things that are sending a stream of gunfire at me then

It doesn't. At 30% DR the defense your getting is basically a 43% boost in health/shields. That is like having rank 4 Fitness. Tech Armor is basically fitness with a cooldown hindrance and some extra power damage (that is overkill on everything but Atlas Mechs). At 650 health/shields you're getting like 400 extra total life assuming you have all five bars of your health in tact, if you don't cut that in half. One burst from an Assault Troopers' Hornet does around 210-ish damage on Gold. So basically Tech Armor protects you from two extra bullets from the weakest trooper, hooray.

Like me? because i hate both classes that use drone and stasis.....

Because you 'hate' the powers doesn't diminish their effectiveness. You see a lot more people gushing over Stasis and Combat Drones than Tech Armor.

Like i said we can continue this back and forth forever or we can agree to disagree because i dont see it, and i wont see until i play with someone of the same skill lvl as me who is using those classes and i either cant compete with they're efficiency or they are badly outscoring me and i cant keep up.

Score is not everything? Just curious what do you typically score with your Sentinel on Gold? If you have Origin I'd love to see a Sentinel score into the 90-100ks consistently. I've only hit that territory twice on mine. I usually stick in the sub 80k area it on it if I'm playing with people who know what they're doing.

Modifié par strive, 03 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Praetor Knight]

Something crossed my mind that's slightly related,

I can recall consistently get high scores after kills and assists (like +400, +500, for example) with the Human Female Vanguard from Biotic Charge and blasting with the Shotty. I don't use Nova much so I'm that familiar with how kills and assists are registered for that power. So in theory, Vanguards seem capable of collecting a larger share of the exp with less kills and assists than say the Sentinel during a match because I recall getting scores of like +242 for kills and so on.

So, what if the scores for the Sentinel could get some sort of boost for kills and assists? Or on the other hand, reduce the scores for Vanguards, Adepts and Infiltrators for kills and assists?

Could something as simple as that change up the general perception of the Sentinel?

[Red Panda]

If we double the damage reduction, add stasis, remove throw, Up carry weight by 100%, remove throw, and add charge to it, then it will become an attractive option.