232 réponses à ce sujet

[shnellegaming]

sfam wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

So... unless I'm mistaken...

The amount of paragon and renegade things you do still determines whether you'll be able to use Charm or Intimidate options, but having done enough total stuff means you can still do at least one?
If so, neat.

I always hated how a morality system tends to turn into an either-or situation, where choosing one at the start of the game meant you have to keep choosing that one throughout the game if you wanted the 'best' ending.
Dragon Age, in my opinion, did morality the best way. This looks like it's going to be a close second.

I'm still a bit confused.  I too hated the old system because at the beginning you definitely had to choose virtually all paragon options to have a chance at the later ones.  But in this system, lets say I choose 75% paragon and 25% renegade, will I get BOTH options later in the game, or only the paragon one?

Its cumulative now.  Lets say you got 75 points paragon and 25 points renegade.  Your reputation would be 100 points.  You would then be able to choose dialogue options that required 100 reputation no matter if the options were renegade or paragon.

Basically they have put the choice in our hands.  We no longer have to make any choices in our dialoge options based on hoping for better things later.  You just choose which option you like best at that moment in time.  That being said you do need to build your reputation up so you will have those choices when they come along.  This means side quests and chatting up everyone you can.  Though thats never changed.

[sfam]

IsaacShep wrote...

sfam wrote...

But in this system, lets say I choose 75% paragon and 25% renegade, will I get BOTH options later in the game, or only the paragon one?

Both. The option will be determined by your reputation level, not by what's the ratio of Paragon/Renegade in your Reputation bar

So in essence, there isn't really a paragon or renegade path any more if that's true.  Meaning, I could care less what my score in either will be.  All I really have is the same set of choices each time, aside for the follow-on actions of the choices I've already made.

I like the change, but it sounds like they can completely do away with the paragon and renegade symbols - am I wrong here?

[Maroon10]

Thats great, I always like to be nice and paragon to the innocent but that meant that I didn't have any of the really tough options to give the evil charachters what they deserved. Its good that they fixed that.

[SirEtchwart]

Quick question:

Is this a great morality system?

OR THE GREATEST MORALITY SYSTEM?!

[shepskisaac]

sfam wrote...

So in essence, there isn't really a paragon or renegade path any more if that's true.  Meaning, I could care less what my score in either will be.  All I really have is the same set of choices each time, aside for the follow-on actions of the choices I've already made.

I like the change, but it sounds like they can completely do away with the paragon and renegade symbols - am I wrong here?

Yes, Paragon/Renegade (Blue/Red) symbols are now essentially to show you that you're (for example) 75% evil but 25% good. Visual representation on your morality. It also means you can stop meta-gaming everytime you make a choice thinking "But if I keep mixing, then I won't be able to take blue or red persuasion options later in the game because I won't have enough point in either because I kept mixing".

[sfam]

Helena Tylena wrote...

sfam wrote...

Helena Tylena wrote...

So... unless I'm mistaken...

The amount of paragon and renegade things you do still determines whether you'll be able to use Charm or Intimidate options, but having done enough total stuff means you can still do at least one?
If so, neat.

I always hated how a morality system tends to turn into an either-or situation, where choosing one at the start of the game meant you have to keep choosing that one throughout the game if you wanted the 'best' ending.
Dragon Age, in my opinion, did morality the best way. This looks like it's going to be a close second.

I'm still a bit confused.  I too hated the old system because at the beginning you definitely had to choose virtually all paragon options to have a chance at the later ones.  But in this system, lets say I choose 75% paragon and 25% renegade, will I get BOTH options later in the game, or only the paragon one?

This is just pure speculation on my part, with literallly no data to back it up, but...

I think if a certain charm/intimidate option requires, for example, 50 reputation, and you have, say, 60 renegade and 30 paragon, you can use the intimidate option, but if you had at least 50 of both, or if they were equal, you'd have access to both.

Or something.
As I said, don't quote me on this.

seems others are saying both are always possible assuming your rep is high. If that's true, there really isn't a moral component any more (meaning paragon and renegade are rendered meaningless), but if your statement is true, we'd still need to tow the line on a specific morality course.

Modifié par sfam, 02 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[sfam]

IsaacShep wrote...

sfam wrote...

So in essence, there isn't really a paragon or renegade path any more if that's true.  Meaning, I could care less what my score in either will be.  All I really have is the same set of choices each time, aside for the follow-on actions of the choices I've already made.

I like the change, but it sounds like they can completely do away with the paragon and renegade symbols - am I wrong here?

Yes, Paragon/Renegade (Blue/Red) symbols are now essentially to show you that you're (for example) 75% evil but 25% good. Visual representation on your morality. It also means you can stop meta-gaming everytime you make a choice thinking "But if I keep mixing, then I won't be able to take blue or red persuasion options later in the game because I won't have enough point in either because I kept mixing".

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

[shnellegaming]

sfam wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

sfam wrote...

But in this system, lets say I choose 75% paragon and 25% renegade, will I get BOTH options later in the game, or only the paragon one?

Both. The option will be determined by your reputation level, not by what's the ratio of Paragon/Renegade in your Reputation bar

So in essence, there isn't really a paragon or renegade path any more if that's true.  Meaning, I could care less what my score in either will be.  All I really have is the same set of choices each time, aside for the follow-on actions of the choices I've already made.

I like the change, but it sounds like they can completely do away with the paragon and renegade symbols - am I wrong here?

Im not sure but I think the paragon renegade will probaby affect what people think about you.  Like if you have more renegade points they will think you are a murdering psycho and if you have more paragon they will think you are some upstanding citizen.  Bad analogy.  Basically it probably does affect a few things.  Like in the last game there was a character who told you ether "I will come for you Shepard" if you were paragon or "if I ever run into you again I will kill you"  if you were renegade.  So I bet it still affects that.

[didymos1120]

I do recall Casey saying there are still benefits to sticking with one approach, however. No idea what he meant by that.

[didymos1120]

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

[double02]

Sounds good. Thanks for the post - it went into great detail, clarifying the rep. feature.

[TheOptimist]

sfam wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

sfam wrote...

But in this system, lets say I choose 75% paragon and 25% renegade, will I get BOTH options later in the game, or only the paragon one?

Both. The option will be determined by your reputation level, not by what's the ratio of Paragon/Renegade in your Reputation bar

So in essence, there isn't really a paragon or renegade path any more if that's true.  Meaning, I could care less what my score in either will be.  All I really have is the same set of choices each time, aside for the follow-on actions of the choices I've already made.

I like the change, but it sounds like they can completely do away with the paragon and renegade symbols - am I wrong here?

I wonder if it may end up affecting not Shepards Dialogue but how other characters treat Shepard, based on the percentages of Paragon/Renegade in your bar.  A 60/40 split might get you one reaction while having one or the other at >75% might make characters react to Shepard very differently.  Thus why general reputation leaves your ratios completely intact. 

[sfam]

didymos1120 wrote...

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

Hmm, I never seemed to get any of the cool options...I started ME1 way late, when it was already in the bargain rack.  Only figured out the renegade/paragon thing later.  How was it different from ME2?

Modifié par sfam, 02 mars 2012 - 01:59 .

[Hunter of Legends]

didymos1120 wrote...

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

It worked along similar lines though.

Do enough "paragon" get enough to invest skill in persuade.

[didymos1120]

sfam wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

Hmm, I never seemed to get any of the cool options...I started ME1 way late, when it was already in the bargain rack.  Only figured out the renegade/paragon thing later.  How was it different from ME2?

You spent points on Charm/Intimidate, and all P/R dialogue options had fixed point requirements.  ME2 didn't have persuasion skills at all, and all the P/R options were based on percentages of the total available points at any given point in the game.

[didymos1120]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

It worked along similar lines though.

Do enough "paragon" get enough to invest skill in persuade.

In practical terms, it didn't restrict you much, as only a few dialogue options required the highest ranks and it wasn't that hard to unlock those ranks anyway. 

[a_ndy]

Ah, finally... I really did feel pigeon-holed into playing pure Paragon or pure Renegade in ME2, when really I just wanted to play as, well, me. And real life people are sometimes nice and sometimes mean. I'm really pleased that ME3 will reflect this without penalty.

[shepskisaac]

didymos1120 wrote...

I do recall Casey saying there are still benefits to sticking with one approach, however. No idea what he meant by that.

He talked about choices, not points. It's spoiler territory but yes, solving larger plots (throughout the entire trilogy, not just in ME3) via one playstyle, Paragon or Renegade, is better.

[Hunter of Legends]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

sfam wrote...

I got killed in ME1 over this...never understood till way late in the game.

Um, what?  ME1 worked completely differently from ME2.

It worked along similar lines though.

Do enough "paragon" get enough to invest skill in persuade.

In practical terms, it didn't restrict you much, as only a few dialogue options required the highest ranks and it wasn't that hard to unlock those ranks anyway. 

No of course not but the idea was similar enough that one playing ME2 would notice the trend from ME1.

ME2 into ME3 is gonna be a bit different.

[Cobra's_back]

This is excellent. This new system fits the situation better. Can't wait for my order to come in.

[Paula Deen]

So wait, if your reputation bar hits the check-required level, both Paragon and Renegade dialogue options are available?

Because if not, then part of the pidgeon-holing problem of ME2 is still there; if you actually want to go with all but the low-check Renegade dialogue options, you had to go nearly full Renegade, and vice-versa. Is that still the case in ME3?

[Paula Deen]

IsaacShep wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

I do recall Casey saying there are still benefits to sticking with one approach, however. No idea what he meant by that.

He talked about choices, not points. It's spoiler territory but yes, solving larger plots (throughout the entire trilogy, not just in ME3) via one playstyle, Paragon or Renegade, is better.

This is exactly what I'm worried and annoyed about. The blog takes pride in mentioning how the system supports and promotes "mixed" approaches, but in reality the game vastly encourages going Max Paragon or Max Renegade for both the most persuasion power AND story/gameplay outcomes.

[sfam]

Paula Deen wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

I do recall Casey saying there are still benefits to sticking with one approach, however. No idea what he meant by that.

He talked about choices, not points. It's spoiler territory but yes, solving larger plots (throughout the entire trilogy, not just in ME3) via one playstyle, Paragon or Renegade, is better.

This is exactly what I'm worried and annoyed about. The blog takes pride in mentioning how the system supports and promotes "mixed" approaches, but in reality the game vastly encourages going Max Paragon or Max Renegade for both the most persuasion power AND story/gameplay outcomes.

I'm guessing we aren't going to get more clarification on this until someone plays through a strict neutral type character and then again as either a paragon or renegade to notice the differences.  I'm going to take this blog post as an indication that if I occaisionally want to punch or shoot someone, I won't get penalized too heavily for doing so. 

Modifié par sfam, 02 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[RolandX9]

"There’s no penalty for mixing Paragon and Renegade" = 100% GRADE A WIN. And I say this as someone who begrudges every Renegade point I get in ME2 in most playthroughs. (Though I will confess that my two Paragades will be dancing crazy in celebration of this. My Renegon might even crack a smile. *G*)

[The_11thDoctor]

So it finally works like it should... Nice! Too many times I felt I was getting random renegade point and had no clue where they came from. That should have been explained in ME2... Getting the random points in the opposite rep was upsetting and made me want smack the game in the face. Then the fact that you couldnt play the game the way you wanted without getting punished for it was also annoying. I wanted to play all paragon, bit there would be times you had to deal with bs that you shouldnt and wanted to shoot someone in the face to stop a 5 min rant, but if you did you loose an option in a conversation later. ME3 sounds 100% better as of that fix.