81 réponses à ce sujet

[DXLelouch15]

lol most people dont like grimdark least i hope to God thats the case

[Eclipse_9990]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Majority. Heh.

Thats right.. The majority. See? Its in this nifty poll I have here...
http://social.biowar...59/polls/28861/ 
Now shhhh.. No more talk, only sleep now. You've had a very busy day.. *continues humming*

He may be a handfull sometimes, but he's a good kid. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 03 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[FlyingWalrus]

>524 votes
>"Majority"
>"Majority" of...?

[Jackal7713]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Majority. Heh.

Thats right.. The majority. See? Its in this nifty poll I have here...
http://social.biowar...59/polls/28861/ 
Now shhhh.. No more talk, only sleep now. You've had a very busy day.. *continues humming*

He may be a handfull sometimes, but he's a good kid. 

 This poll rocks!

Modifié par Jackal7713, 03 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[mechgouki]

Flyingwalrus just keeps attacking anyone who disagrees with him. This isn't his first troll topic.

[FlyingWalrus]

mechgouki wrote...

Flyingwalrus just keeps attacking anyone who disagrees with him. This isn't his first troll topic.

Let's not confuse "challenging" for "trolling" now. Trolling is something one does for the amusement of it, just to get a rise out of people. I have asked my questions, namely one (Is it juvenile to be angry at the way a story ends?) and all I've gotten is backbiting and attacks, spare the carefully worded responses from maybe one or two people.

And what am I being disagreed with on? I never said I liked the ending. As it stands right now I only know the barest details of it, and whether I like it or not will be determined by the way it fits into the greater whole of the whole work. I do not immediately determine the worth of a tale by its ending. That is not an intellectually honest method to assess such things. A litte critical thought rather than emotional kneejerk would be appreciated.

Also, do point out my other "troll" topics. I am intrigued as to my notoriety.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 03 mars 2012 - 09:14 .

[xtorma]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

mechgouki wrote...

Flyingwalrus just keeps attacking anyone who disagrees with him. This isn't his first troll topic.

Let's not confuse "challenging" for "trolling" now. Trolling is something one does for the amusement of it, just to get a rise out of people. I have asked my questions, namely one (Is it juvenile to be angry at the way a story ends?) and all I've gotten is backbiting and attacks, spare the carefully worded responses from maybe one or two people.

And what am I being disagreed with on? I never said I liked the ending. As it stands right now I only know the barest details of it, and whether I like it or not will be determined by the way it fits into the greater whole of the whole work. I do not immediately determine the worth of a tale by its ending. That is not an intellectually honest method to assess such things. A litte critical thought rather than emotional kneejerk would be appreciated.

Also, do point out my other "troll" topics. I am intrigued as to my notoriety.

your opinion is valid...i just think you are wrong.

[mechgouki]

http://social.biowar...index/9509849/1

I pointed it out in page 2. Don't you ever read?

Troll: I created this this topic, and I absolutely don't care if there are other similar topics in existence.
Disatisfied poster: Someone had already posted the same topic in the last 14hrs.
Troll: Go drink some booze, idiot! Stay on topic or get the hell out!

I did a search for Drell Vanguard builds. I found this topic where this person keeps bashing Drell Vanguards. But that's not the worst part. He keeps attacking the hell out of this guy who pointed out that there was a similar topic recently posted. I was wondering, who is this obnoxious person? Turns out, big shock, that wasn't the only topic where he attacks anyone for no reason.

Modifié par mechgouki, 03 mars 2012 - 09:24 .

[FlyingWalrus]

mechgouki wrote...

http://social.biowar...index/9509849/1

I pointed it out in page 2. Don't you ever read?

Troll: I created this this topic, and I absolutely don't care if there are other similar topics in existence.
Disatisfied poster: Someone had already posted the same topic in the last 14hrs.
Troll: Go drink some booze, idiot! Stay on topic or get the hell out!

Ah yes. It did grow into quite a constructive and interesting topic, too, including a response from a Bioware staffer himself. Despite the childish flailing displayed then, it was quite worth it to open that discussion in a fresh topic where people who had not yet expressed their opinions could do so in a venue where it didn't feel like everything had already been talked out. In no place did I attack anyone for having an opinion that differed from mine. On the contrary, if you read through it you can see that I attempt to understand the playstyle that would be required with a character that is currently as fragile as the Drell Vanguard. The only time when I do attack someone is when Hiero Glyph attempts to derail the thread with his forum policing. Otherwise, I am a perfectly civil individual. It turns out that all you have to do is posit a coherent rebuttal.

So how was that a troll topic?

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 03 mars 2012 - 09:34 .

[mechgouki]

Well I'm glad for you that your ends justified your means. Do you just blatantly attack anyone, and if a long discussion continues because, or rather, in spite of it, you consider it to be a victory?

All that Hiero guy did was said one simple line. 
Yeah, using the search bar to necro that 14-hour-old thread would be horrible. [/sarcasm] 

You call that forum policing? 

[ Topic or get out
, mostly for your own good ]

Let me point out that you are not a moderator.

Modifié par mechgouki, 03 mars 2012 - 09:42 .

[FlyingWalrus]

Except I didn't attack anyone unprovoked, not in opening. Not even Bioware, even though I evidently disagreed with how they handled the statistical framing of the Drell Vanguard. The sniping was an unfortunate diversion from the main topic of the thread, which thankfully it went back to once the whinger stopped responding. Apparently he had nothing to add besides how new topics are worth less than old topics and therefore I was a troll.

And as the topic that I started, it was my right to request -- and if not complied with, demand -- that it not be derailed.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 03 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[xtorma]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Except I didn't attack anyone unprovoked, not in opening. Not even Bioware, even though I evidently disagreed with how they handled the statistical framing of the Drell Vanguard. The sniping was an unfortunate diversion from the main topic of the thread, which thankfully it went back to once the whinger stopped responding. Apparently he had nothing to add besides how new topics are worth less than old topics and therefore I was a troll.

Calling them knobs would not be an attack?....just sayin.

[FlyingWalrus]

xtorma wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Except I didn't attack anyone unprovoked, not in opening. Not even Bioware, even though I evidently disagreed with how they handled the statistical framing of the Drell Vanguard. The sniping was an unfortunate diversion from the main topic of the thread, which thankfully it went back to once the whinger stopped responding. Apparently he had nothing to add besides how new topics are worth less than old topics and therefore I was a troll.

Calling them knobs would not be an attack?....just sayin.

Oh I acknowledge that it was, and is. You could say I'm just calling them as I see them. It does seem rather knobbish (and I mean that in the definition that translates to 'obnoxious' and not the anatomical slang) for this many people of likely majority age to throw this magnitude of a tantrum for something that is ultimately minor and without a complete understanding.

[mechgouki]

I never actually disagreed with you on the Drell Vanguard. What I am disgusted by, is your absolute need to run down any one who simply says something you don't like.

All that guy did was point out there was a similar topic posted in the last 14 hrs. He didn't actually insult you until you attacked him first!

For this topic, you started off by calling everyone fools and knobs. Is that your style of getting a point across? ****** off everyone with the name-calling before you put your statement up there?

And as the topic that I started, it was my right to request -- and if not complied with, demand -- that it not be derailed. 

 He has the right to post in your topic. You want to stop him, easy. Be a mod.

Modifié par mechgouki, 03 mars 2012 - 09:52 .

[Yuri11]

Some people just don't seem to understand that this is a mature game, not a fairy tail with unicorns and rainbows. The whole idea of dramatic/tragic stories is hero experiencing something that others may not in their entire life.

Most of you wrote that you put too much effort in the to previous games but you can never ever prepare enough for the unknown. Things works that way in real life and it should in the game, so i agree.

[xtorma]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

xtorma wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Except I didn't attack anyone unprovoked, not in opening. Not even Bioware, even though I evidently disagreed with how they handled the statistical framing of the Drell Vanguard. The sniping was an unfortunate diversion from the main topic of the thread, which thankfully it went back to once the whinger stopped responding. Apparently he had nothing to add besides how new topics are worth less than old topics and therefore I was a troll.

Calling them knobs would not be an attack?....just sayin.

Oh I acknowledge that it was, and is. You could say I'm just calling them as I see them. It does seem rather knobbish (and I mean that in the definition that translates to 'obnoxious' and not the anatomical slang) for this many people of likely majority age to throw this magnitude of a tantrum for something that is ultimately minor and without a complete understanding.

Fact is , if you open a discussion with an insult , don't expect folks to be generous in thier answers. like i said your opinion is valid. i just wish you could have expessed it a little differently. anyway cheers!

[FlyingWalrus]

Not everybody. Just everybody who seemed to senselessly think that ME3 was the worst thing ever for having something of a downer ending, and could not bring themselves to consider that all this time we've been told that victory would come at some costs -- steep costs, even. I do admit that I am rather brazen about bulldozing those who offend me, but you can blame that as a product of this environment. As you can tell by my join date, I have been around long enough to have weathered two forum wars (ME2 and DA2) and I have fired my fair share of volleys in both. You can be disgusted at this, but it is the way it is. You may feel free to avoid me, but do know that I have a thick skin and I am quite ready to assume that someone who takes shots is the same way.

Just so you know where I am coming from regarding this particular topic, I will state this. One of my favorite game series was Xenosaga. Whereas that series was once supposed to be five games, it was cut to three because of the violently stupid Xenosaga II (which I loathe to this day. For those who think ME2 was such a step backwards, oh my goodness you have no idea). Xenosaga III was a fantastic game. The RPG elements had been brought back, each character had some uniqueness once again, and the systems were much more refined. The narrative was longer and more complete, and of course there was the thrill of an ultimate conclusion. At the end, my favorite characters die. The UMN, the network that made interstellar travel not just a possibility but a regularity, was destroyed. The rest of the main characters were stranded on their ship, in dark space, with no hope of getting back to the life they knew before. But the story made it clear that it was not the end, and everything was not lost. And even though there will never be another Xenosaga game I still love that series for its characters and the high points it had.

Incidentally, I chose this example because it seems that there are a lot of parallels with what's going on in this purported ending. However sad that ending was, however, it was not something that "destroyed" the series for me. Or a lot of people who enjoyed it, for that matter. Instead there was an understanding, mostly because almost all the people who talked about the ending had already played the game to its completion. There was context. That is why I think this whole song and dance is, well, silly.

[GBGriffin]

 It's sad when "mature" has to mean "dark". And again, you could include multiple, dozens of dark endings for all I care...why would it be so impossible to include a "happy" one, even if it isn't "unicorns and rainbows". What if Shep just got stranded with the crew? That's still depressing, but at least they'd be together.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 03 mars 2012 - 10:12 .

[gearseffect]

"Ahhh Yes... FlyingWalrus"

Eclipse_9990 poll is only a sign of the unholy wraith of fans that will be on the boards by the time they beat the game.

I'd like to see myself eating my words on these statements I really would.

[mechgouki]

Regarding Xenosaga. I own the first one on PS2. Never bought the rest.

I heard a rumor that Xenogears is related to Xenosaga. I'm not sure if that is true or not. I argued that Xenogears is released by Square, Xenosaga by Namco, they couldn't have been related. But the guy said the team doing them is still the same team. Well, I've actually never played both series (despite owning one), so feel free to disprove it. But if it were true, then it would be 4 in the series. (I did watch the anime version though. And I also own Xenosaga Freaks, PS2 JPN.)

The truth is, I never actually disagreed with you. I'm actually taking the stand that I will play the game, before I judge it. The reason is largely because, despite all the outcry about the ending of this game, I am secretly hoping that the best ending will be better than what most people have described. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, in short. I am hoping that it will turn out better than what most people say, even though many will tell me otherwise right now.

Still, you should be aware that when you start a topic with such a tone, chances are, the rest of the topic won't be that much different.

Modifié par mechgouki, 03 mars 2012 - 10:42 .

[Yuri11]

There is a problem with happy ending -- it would be considered as the only right ending, if you won't achieve it, then you wasn't trying hard enough. The endings we have allows us to think about what happens in a long term, I agree -- stranding Normandy looks strange now and this 

GBGriffin wrote...

What if Shep just got stranded with the crew? That's still depressing, but at least they'd be together.

would be more appropriate but i won't judge in now because it's a book I haven't read myself.

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

You have to understand. Some people have been waiting for this game since 2007, and to be told they are getting a sad ending...?

[GBGriffin]

Yuri11 wrote...

There is a problem with happy ending -- it would be considered as the only right ending, if you won't achieve it, then you wasn't trying hard enough. The endings we have allows us to think about what happens in a long term, I agree -- stranding Normandy looks strange now and this 

GBGriffin wrote...

What if Shep just got stranded with the crew? That's still depressing, but at least they'd be together.

would be more appropriate but i won't judge in now because it's a book I haven't read myself.

In the minds of people who want a dark ending, it would be the right one, and they could choose it.

In the minds of people who want a lighter one, it would be the right one, and they could choose it.

Both sides could choose the ending that fits their established "canon" because both, in their minds, would be right.

[madhatterwriter]

Favourite store on the CitadeI wrote...

You have to understand. Some people have been waiting for this game since 2007, and to be told they are getting a sad ending...?

I think the problem stem from people believing they have a had on how it ends. And with that is the belief and hope that they can maneuver the story to those ends. When that ability is not given at the very end, yeah people will get very angry and even feel cheated.

Hear me out before someone start harking on me on the illusion of choice in ME. This wouldn't be a problem now if Bioware hadn't gone around saying it was a ground breaking RPG, your CHOICES mattered, and that YOU decide how it ends and that is namely in the third game. Very misleading words. They should've clarifed what it is. Hell, even I got mislead/misunderstood.

In terms of story tonality, they should gone grim since the first ME so that people won't have these notion that they can have a happier ending. Also make ME2 impossible to save all of your team mates. In litereature, in tragic stories, writers drops big hints that this is story is not going to end on a happy note through out the entire story so as to train the readers on the expecation. I believe Bioware failed at that department and that is why a lot of people are going to be angry and upset because they were not expecting this.

So that's my two cents.