191 réponses à ce sujet

[Butthead11]

Kakaw wrote...

TehJumpingJawa wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
Who cares about diversity in a coop only game? Let people use what they want. The pistols aren't OP. Stasis maybe, but not pistols.

I imagine most people care about MP diversity. Without it everyone will end up playing the same class/race & MP will become boring & repetitive far sooner than it might otherwise do so.

The problem with pistols isn't their damage, it's their long-range accuracy and the consequent crazily fast ability cooldown you get with +200% to recharge.

Again, this is not someting unique to pistols. Any weapon type can come with a +200% bonus to recharge. It's quite simple for most classes. Long range accuracy I can agree with, they should swtich the scope with a lazer pointer, like a pistol in ME2 had. No zoom but accurate headshots still very possible.

Sniper rifles can get 200% bonus? how? 

[Kakaw]

Butthead11 wrote...

Kakaw wrote...

TehJumpingJawa wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
Who cares about diversity in a coop only game? Let people use what they want. The pistols aren't OP. Stasis maybe, but not pistols.

I imagine most people care about MP diversity. Without it everyone will end up playing the same class/race & MP will become boring & repetitive far sooner than it might otherwise do so.

The problem with pistols isn't their damage, it's their long-range accuracy and the consequent crazily fast ability cooldown you get with +200% to recharge.

Again, this is not someting unique to pistols. Any weapon type can come with a +200% bonus to recharge. It's quite simple for most classes. Long range accuracy I can agree with, they should swtich the scope with a lazer pointer, like a pistol in ME2 had. No zoom but accurate headshots still very possible.

Sniper rifles can get 200% bonus? how? 

First pick any human, any turian, any krogan or any infiltrator (which means asari adepts and drell vanguards are a no-go. Next max assault mastery/salarian opperative / alliance training / .. you know, the passives that aren't fitness. Then you equip the Viper or the Mantis. Now you'll have 200% bonus recharge speed. (with a turian sentinel, you'll only reach 191% with the viper, but infiltrators easily get to 200%)

Grats, you just made the pistol obsolete.

I might agree that most weapons could need a-- maximum of 5% damage boost, to set them apart from the pistol; and some heavier-type weapons are too heavy for their small boosts, and may need some tweaking. But you'll never convince me that pistols are the ultimate weapon; and everyone who says pistols can get you 200% power recharge speed, well, yes, they are correct. But so can any other weapon type, so they are also morons if they use that as an arguement for anything ...

Modifié par Kakaw, 02 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

They should focus on weapons and unique powers IMO.

For powers, Stasis needs a nerf. It's just ridiculous that you can stop anything in its tracks instantly, hell even a group of enemies with bubble. They make Phantoms a non-issue if the Adept so much as looks at them. Definitely needs a nerf. Cloak is also really powerful, but it's the infiltrator's signature power and doesn't break the game like Stasis so leave it alone. Powers that need buffing are 1) Tech Armor, 15(25 with upgrade)% damage reduction is negligible on Silver/Gold, you have to deactivate it (cooldowns ahoy) for it to be useful, and it has the gall of lenghtening your cooldowns as well. It should work like in ME2 imo 2) Adrenaline Rush, it's useful with one gun (Viper) and barely worth putting points in otherwise; the fact that the Soldier has to stay exposed to deal damage unlike power users should mean that he can do a lot of damage, but AR doesn't quite cut it. 3) Combat Drone, specifically the Rocket Launcher upgrade. This makes the drone not fire and float around uselessly if the enemy is closer than like 10 yards, kinda ruins the point of having a drone in the first place. That's what I gathered at any rate.

As for weapons, automatics in general should be buffed. SMGs are so innacurate it's pitiful, at their effective range you might as well Heavy Melee, and the Revenant is even worse, you could miss an Atlas with the thing at 10 yards. Meanwhile, 1 Carnifex or Widow shot can cripple or kill most targets. Single-shot weapons are a bit too superior for my tastes; the upgraded Avenger is pretty much the only good automatic weapon. Luv mah Avenger.

Modifié par Giantdeathrobot, 02 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[Eric13574]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Target list of griefers.

1. Stasis Nerf. Success
2. Pistol nerf. Pending
3. Infiltrator nerf. Pending
4. Every other weapon/class nerf. Pending.

****ing idiots.

First, look up what greifers means.

Second, NO game is balanced from the start, just like no game is bug free from the start.  The people who believe this are blind fanboys who are more of a detriment to bug removal/balance than a help.

I assume you're still playing in bronze, where you can use any class, any weapon combination, sleepwalk, and still win, in gold there are some very obvious balance problems.  As it stands an asari adept in basically required for gold, with the exception of gimmick combinations (4x vanguard or 4x infiltrater)

The carnifax can be used to give someone a 200% power recharge, with the damage of a sniper, and the ROF of a carbine.  It is the ONLY weapon that can provide all of these.

[Thoragoros]

DJRackham wrote...

I'm just hope that these nerfs don't affect the solo game.

Same here.

[Carukia]

corporal doody wrote...

looks like BALANCE changes are indeed in the works. WITH ALL THE GRIEFERS these past few weeks....what REALISTIC changes do you forsee to your beloved class? rather...what DO you forsee being nerfed and/or buffed?



for me...all the griefing about my beloved asari adept and her stasis bubble has me worried that a nerf will be implimented that will make the asari adept nowhere near as fun and turns her near ineffective.

i also think the damage a soldier will deal with a weapon will be buffed.

Soldiers don't need buffs. The only class that can consistently score higher than me is the adept. The adept is slightly ahead of the pack when it comes to damage, but I don't think anything needs to be changed the way it is.

[Thoragoros]

Eric13574 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Target list of griefers.

1. Stasis Nerf. Success
2. Pistol nerf. Pending
3. Infiltrator nerf. Pending
4. Every other weapon/class nerf. Pending.

****ing idiots.

First, look up what greifers means.

Second, NO game is balanced from the start, just like no game is bug free from the start. The people who believe this are blind fanboys who are more of a detriment to bug removal/balance than a help.

I assume you're still playing in bronze, where you can use any class, any weapon combination, sleepwalk, and still win, in gold there are some very obvious balance problems. As it stands an asari adept in basically required for gold, with the exception of gimmick combinations (4x vanguard or 4x infiltrater)

The carnifax can be used to give someone a 200% power recharge, with the damage of a sniper, and the ROF of a carbine. It is the ONLY weapon that can provide all of these.

Have you considered the fact that, while that maybe true of Carnifex pistols, that there might be a larger problem, namely that the Assault Rifles -- at least the ones in the demo -- are ludicrously weak even on Silver, and practically useless on Gold?

As it stands, there is no reason whatsoever to equip an assault rifle, they reduce cooldown, and offer very, very little in the way of dealing damage.


EDIT.  And while where talking about balance issues...

Buff Tech Armor! I want my Sentinel back!

Modifié par Thoragoros, 02 mars 2012 - 05:57 .

[kiltysue]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

They should focus on weapons and unique powers IMO.

For powers, Stasis needs a nerf. It's just ridiculous that you can stop anything in its tracks instantly, hell even a group of enemies with bubble. They make Phantoms a non-issue if the Adept so much as looks at them. Definitely needs a nerf. Cloak is also really powerful, but it's the infiltrator's signature power and doesn't break the game like Stasis so leave it alone.

Stasis is a signature power, just as cloak is.  No asaris solo gold with stasis, infiltrators solo gold with
cloak.  At the very least, both powers are imbalanced.  if asaris were soloing gold with their signature
power, people would be crying about how it's a game breaking power.  How is the same not true for
infiltrators?  That solo gold now in the demo, with the reduced weapon set we currently have
available?

[capn233]

The Widow and Mantis are fine. They are high damage single shot weapons which should be analogous to something like a Barrett M82 in .50 BMG and perhaps a Remington 700 in .338 Lapua respectively (or whatever brand rifle in those chambers you like). There is no handgun that should be as powerful.

Additionally the Viper should outdamage a pistol per shot. It really shouldn't matter what pistol.  It should be drastically more accurate unless you are trying to mag-dump it (which isn't even possible with it's slow ROF).

The Assault Rifles are an interesting case. They should do more damage per shot than any of the higher rate of fire pistols and be more accurate at range. However, slower ROF pistols (which would be the extreme type of magnums) could potentially out damage them per shot, but should still yield to the AR's in DPS.

SMGs should weigh slightly more than pistols and do similar damage per shot (to the standard pistols) but of course have a higher ROF compared to pistols and do more DPS. That is afterall what an SMG is... a weapon chambered in a pistol round that is fully automatic. The highest damage pistols should do more damage per shot than the SMGs because you typically don't chamber an SMG in very high powered pistol rounds, maybe 10mm being an exception. However the more power per shot, the more recoil there should be (allowing for rare or very high ranking items).

As others have pointed out the system in the demo rewards the use of the Carnifex as it fulfills the role of nearly every other weapon and is relatively light. It has about the same C/D bonus on my infiltrator as does the Viper but is probably more useful. Infiltrator is a special case though because really they are better suited to the single shot rifles because of their passive talents. However, for any other class, and especially casters, the Carnifex is the hot ticket. But even the Phalanx and Predator are pretty decent, and low level characters can get away using them about as effectively as any other weapon as well.

Modifié par capn233, 02 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[TexasToast712]

Eric13574 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Target list of griefers.

1. Stasis Nerf. Success
2. Pistol nerf. Pending
3. Infiltrator nerf. Pending
4. Every other weapon/class nerf. Pending.

****ing idiots.

First, look up what greifers means.

Second, NO game is balanced from the start, just like no game is bug free from the start.  The people who believe this are blind fanboys who are more of a detriment to bug removal/balance than a help.

I assume you're still playing in bronze, where you can use any class, any weapon combination, sleepwalk, and still win, in gold there are some very obvious balance problems.  As it stands an asari adept in basically required for gold, with the exception of gimmick combinations (4x vanguard or 4x infiltrater)

The carnifax can be used to give someone a 200% power recharge, with the damage of a sniper, and the ROF of a carbine.  It is the ONLY weapon that can provide all of these.

First, I only play on Silver/Gold, troll.

Second, I can name several games that were perfectly balanced at the start but are now boring, unbalanced, nerf fests.

Third, the Carnifex is not OP. It cannot be used effectively by everyone. It has a learning curve. it will also most likely be less effective verses Geth and rushing Reaper forces. This is where AR and shotguns will shine. Oh and another thing, if you think the Carnifex is bad then you will be crying when people start unlocking the Paladin.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 02 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[capn233]

The Carnifex can be used effectively by anyone that can aim and "pull the trigger." Which is the same sort of person that can use any weapon in the game to their potential.

[UK Wildcat]

I love the Carnifex, the infiltrator, the adept. I'm okay if all three get nerfed. It's good for the game, it's good for balance. The only reason to avoid balance is to not care about things being overpowered or brokenly easy.

Multiplayer shouldn't be:

Pick 1-4 salarian infs.
Pick 1-4 asari adepts

Grab carnifexes or widows.

Steamroll Gold.

^ That's a stupid multiplayer that doesn't reach the most broad base, and won't be competitive or fun for more than a few weeks.

[Eric13574]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Eric13574 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Target list of griefers.

1. Stasis Nerf. Success
2. Pistol nerf. Pending
3. Infiltrator nerf. Pending
4. Every other weapon/class nerf. Pending.

****ing idiots.

First, look up what greifers means.

Second, NO game is balanced from the start, just like no game is bug free from the start.  The people who believe this are blind fanboys who are more of a detriment to bug removal/balance than a help.

I assume you're still playing in bronze, where you can use any class, any weapon combination, sleepwalk, and still win, in gold there are some very obvious balance problems.  As it stands an asari adept in basically required for gold, with the exception of gimmick combinations (4x vanguard or 4x infiltrater)

The carnifax can be used to give someone a 200% power recharge, with the damage of a sniper, and the ROF of a carbine.  It is the ONLY weapon that can provide all of these.

First, I only play on Silver/Gold, troll.

Second, I can name several games that were perfectly balanced at the start but are now boring, unbalanced, nerf fests.

Third, the Carnifex is not OP. It cannot be effectively by everyone. It has a learning curve. it will also most likely be less effective verses assaulting Geth and rushing Reaper forces. This is were AR and shotguns will shine. Oh and another thing, if you think the Carnifex is bad then you will be crying when people start unlocking the Paladin.

It's ironic how you think you know so much about this game, when everything you say proves you wrong.  Paladin is not better than the carnifax, it will still be a 1-2 shot kill, same as the carnifax, but with a smaller clip.  The only people who can't use it effectively are people who can't pull of a headshot, in that case it doesn't matter what you're using.

TexasToast712 wrote...

Who cares about diversity in a coop only game? Let people use what they want. 

 

Again, ironic.  Lack of balance removes diversity and makes it so people CAN'T use what they want.  When you're playing high level stuff you want people maximising their gear, not just playing the way they want, that's what bronze and silver is for.  However if things are balanced correctly they can use any weapon or class and still be effective, only an incompetent moron would be against this.

[Thoragoros]

kiltysue wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

They should focus on weapons and unique powers IMO.

For powers, Stasis needs a nerf. It's just ridiculous that you can stop anything in its tracks instantly, hell even a group of enemies with bubble. They make Phantoms a non-issue if the Adept so much as looks at them. Definitely needs a nerf. Cloak is also really powerful, but it's the infiltrator's signature power and doesn't break the game like Stasis so leave it alone.

Stasis is a signature power, just as cloak is.  No asaris solo gold with stasis, infiltrators solo gold with
cloak.  At the very least, both powers are imbalanced.  if asaris were soloing gold with their signature
power, people would be crying about how it's a game breaking power.  How is the same not true for
infiltrators?  That solo gold now in the demo, with the reduced weapon set w

Anyone solo-ing gold is simply a 'goldly' player and shouldn't be used as the basis for "balance" changes.

However, the reason you have Infiltrator's solo-ing gold is because of the 'type' of Character an Infiltrator is.  Long-Range firepower, and sneaking.  You probably aren't going to solo Gold with a Sentinel or Soldier because there is simply too much being thrown at you at once to be able to 'hulk' through, whereas an Infiltrator is sneaking around the map taking pot shots at lesser troops and sabatoging stronger opponents.

The Infiltrator play-style, which is defined by the short bursts of 'sneak' that Cloak grants, is what allows players to solo Gold if they are talented infiltrators.

[Wulfram]

De we know if MP balancing will affect SP?

[Luigitornado]

Anything being buffed?

[shumworld]

MetallicaRulez0 wrote...

Tech Armor basically just needs the cooldown increase removed, and the explosion should happen when your shields go down like in ME2. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually activated the armor explosion.

That's what made the Tech Shield in ME2 so awesome! Once it explodes after taking enough damage you also get a recharge to your normal shields. I mean the Vanguard's Biotic Charge recharges their barriars once used, why can't the same be done to the Sentinel's Tech Sheild.

[UK Wildcat]

Luigitornado wrote...

Anything being buffed?

It's likely the drell vanguard will be, we've had implications from Dev's that the drell vg is being looked at based on player/internal feedback.

[Maria Caliban]

Jitawa wrote...


I'm confused.  In what context could anyone "grief" someone in a co-op game?

When he says 'griefers,' he means people who complain on the forums.

[Luigitornado]

Are they fixing the combat drone?

D:

That's all I care about. I want it to have a priority set where it attacks a targeted unit (when deployed) instead of first attacking whatever is shooting at it.

[Thoragoros]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jitawa wrote...


I'm confused.  In what context could anyone "grief" someone in a co-op game?

When he says 'griefers,' he means people who complain on the forums.

And people who can't come in No. 1 on the scoreboards and believe it is because of faults in their chosen class, or imbalances in the class of those who beat them.

[Esperys]

Personally, I'm glad they're talking about a small stasis nerf. While it's great for people who have trouble aiming at moving targets, it does trivialize some encounters that would be difficult before. Same could be said about double arching overload, though.

As for the Carnifex, I don't really want to see it nerf'd, but I would like to see other weapons buffed up enough to compete with it. It is boring to feel like it is the most useful weapon for all character types. I like the sound of ARs when firing, but why would I when I can pump out a few headshots with a carnifex and finish an enemy in double the speed I would with an AR? And those who say "Just get 200% recharge with a sniper rifle" and think that suddenly 'obseletes' heavy pistols are fooling themselves. Rate of Fire makes a big difference. In the time it takes to fire, reload, re-aim, fire with a sniper riflef, someone killed with a carnifex can drop several enemies of the same type.

[kiltysue]

Thoragoros wrote...

Anyone solo-ing gold is simply a 'goldly' player and shouldn't be used as the basis for "balance" changes.

However, the reason you have Infiltrator's solo-ing gold is because of the 'type' of Character an Infiltrator is.  Long-Range firepower, and sneaking.

The Infiltrator play-style, which is defined by the short bursts of 'sneak' that Cloak grants, is what allows players to solo Gold if they are talented infiltrators.

So nerf the firepower and/or the sneaking.  To the point where we see infiltrators balanced
with other classes.  My actual opinion is that the imbalances are fine.  I like looking forward to
getting a class card for a race that will be better in some ways, or at the very least different
from my starter set (human sentinel/turian is another good example).

But if we're talking about how godly overpowered stasis is, then lets also nerf the godly overpowered
sneaking/firepower of the infiltrator.  Then any "godly" player will have the ability to excell.

[Thoragoros]

kiltysue wrote...

Thoragoros wrote...

Anyone solo-ing gold is simply a 'goldly' player and shouldn't be used as the basis for "balance" changes.

However, the reason you have Infiltrator's solo-ing gold is because of the 'type' of Character an Infiltrator is.  Long-Range firepower, and sneaking.

The Infiltrator play-style, which is defined by the short bursts of 'sneak' that Cloak grants, is what allows players to solo Gold if they are talented infiltrators.

So nerf the firepower and/or the sneaking.  To the point where we see infiltrators balanced
with other classes.  My actual opinion is that the imbalances are fine.  I like looking forward to
getting a class card for a race that will be better in some ways, or at the very least different
from my starter set (human sentinel/turian is another good example).

But if we're talking about how godly overpowered stasis is, then lets also nerf the godly overpowered
sneaking/firepower of the infiltrator.  Then any "godly" player will have the ability to excell.

What you're missing is that the Firepower-Sneak combo granted by Cloak -- which is single shot -- is the only strength the Infiltrator has.  This is further limited by the fact that you have actually have to aim and hit your target, it doesn't lock on for you like Warp or Carnage, with Cloak you actually have to make the shot.

The Infiltrator has no fall-back offensive abilities.  Human Infiltrator has Cryo and 3 StickyBombs, not exactly a death dealer.   The Salarian has Energy Drain, which actually deals very limited damage, and the less than useful proximity mines, again, not exactly an uber combo.

Without the benefits of Cloak, the infiltrator loses its only true offensive capability. 

What makes the Infiltrator powerful is a Player who understands and can use the assassin/stealth playstyle of the infiltrator.  Players who can aim, sneak, and be patient, make very good use of the class.  You can't button mash like Vanguards, or Tank like Krogans.  You have to sit back, pick your shots, and be patient -- sometimes even while the players around you are mixing it up with the enemy.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 02 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[A SILENT EMU]

I hope they nerf stasis as well as a few other items such as the carnifex. Currently they are much too strong and the game is already a bit too easy on gold.