191 réponses à ce sujet

[TehJumpingJawa]

Thoragoros wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jitawa wrote...


I'm confused.  In what context could anyone "grief" someone in a co-op game?

When he says 'griefers,' he means people who complain on the forums.

And people who can't come in No. 1 on the scoreboards and believe it is because of faults in their chosen class, or imbalances in the class of those who beat them.

I hope you realize the people suggesting the various nerfs are the people who use said overpowered classes.
We're not crying about other people dominating the scoreboard; we are the ones dominating the scoreboard.
We're suggesting nerfs to certain characters/classes/abilities to either make the game more challenging or to make the less played classes more practicable.

As to griefers... the only kind I've come across in ME3 are those that sit in the lobby d*cking around making everyone else wait, go AFK for entire matches, or join gold matches when they're level 1. (The latter I blame on BW for setting the default difficulty to 'any', rather than the noob players themselves)

[BuffPhantoms]

Looks like the easymode asari adept crew are gonna be angry, ahha.

[TehJumpingJawa]

The Infiltrator is definitely a one-trick pony. I think the problem is that one-trick is really really effective, and played correctly makes you nigh on invincible in challenge.

I suggest simply reducing the cloak duration a little. (1 or 2 seconds)
It wouldn't hurt the Infiltrator's combat effectiveness, nor would it hurt their ability to safely resurrect team mates.
What it would do is lessen the class's ability to reposition from one end of the map all the way to the other, while also weakening the near-perfect immunity that cloak grants to hacking.

Modifié par TehJumpingJawa, 02 mars 2012 - 08:32 .

[plaguecaller]

Griefers huh..... O wow,.. you are playing the wrong game to even try and associatte what goes on here to griefers.

You want grief there are games that will help you touch the definition of gaming grief in a real way and understand it.

Nothing on these boards or in the game mechanics is close to grief. Not one thing.

[Asari Commando]

bleh, wtf would you make stasis weaker? yeah lets just go back to the crap ass mass effect 2 version where you cant even attack them. why make the power 100% better, then change it to ruin the ability all over again.

why should i have to take off their protection before using stasis? it was never like that before, terrible idea. like they suppose its fair the phantom can run around insta-killing my teammates.

if anything change fortification / tech armor so the cooldowns arent one power every 20 seconds. the only way to get decent output on your powers is to fully upgrade it with the right evolutions, a sentinal with slow cooldowns is a joke.

[Vaneke]

somebody, if they can, explain to me, why in a team based objective game, you would ask game developers to actually make an ability, of one of your own squadmates who watch your back and help you complete the objective, weaker.

anybody?

is it because you don't top the leaderboards?
is it because you don't like adepts, and you don't have an equally powerfull ability?
why?
it's a "team", who cares what rank, or points or money you get. you did it "togheter.

that said, yes, i like asari adept, and yes, i like bubble, but i don't go raging on if an infiltrator snipes my targets in a bubble.
i bubble, fire twice, and they finish it off, or i bubble, and they save me by killing it.

so i'm really amazed, people actually complain about the power of a class.
does anybody have a mature explanation for it?

[Eludajae]

What I am hoping that the devs understand. That 90% of these "balancing" cries are from people playing on Bronze level. There is not a player out there that is making noise about the Asari Adepts that play on Silver or Gold. Again, its the Bronze only players that are making calls on classes that they have no clue about on the easiest level to play.

[UK Wildcat]

Eludajae wrote...

What I am hoping that the devs understand. That 90% of these "balancing" cries are from people playing on Bronze level. There is not a player out there that is making noise about the Asari Adepts that play on Silver or Gold. Again, its the Bronze only players that are making calls on classes that they have no clue about on the easiest level to play.

You are wrong.  I play on Gold.  I have an N7120 account, and a second demo account.  I've played competitively in actual league play for FPS games as a sniper.  I promise you I will outcompete and outperform you and other people deriding other perceptions of multiplayer as being limited to bronze players only.

The asari adept needs to be nerfed to ensure competitive balance EVEN IF the game is revolving around co-op play.

Why?  To provide a reason to have all classes being viable, and not only have 2 classes that get played.  Homogenuity ruins games.  Variety makes games fun.

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 02 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[darkblade]

Asari Commando wrote...

bleh, wtf would you make stasis weaker? yeah lets just go back to the crap ass mass effect 2 version where you cant even attack them. why make the power 100% better, then change it to ruin the ability all over again.

why should i have to take off their protection before using stasis? it was never like that before, terrible idea. like they suppose its fair the phantom can run around insta-killing my teammates.

if anything change fortification / tech armor so the cooldowns arent one power every 20 seconds. the only way to get decent output on your powers is to fully upgrade it with the right evolutions, a sentinal with slow cooldowns is a joke.

Well in ME 1 all powers worked all the time with thier effects reduced based on hardening.
In ME 2 You had to strip defenses to get powers to work which was an excellent system. you also had to have the right weapons and powers to deal with the correct defenses.
ME 3 just homogeneralized i bunch of crap and made the game shallow. no SMG shield damage multiplers? Overload working on barriers just as well as on shields? Warp getting a bonus for only armor and not barriers? Stasis ignoring barrier and shield? no shotgun damage multiplers for close range, and as far as i can tell there arent any multiplers for certain weapons against certain defenses. 

Where did the depth go?

also lol exaggerations dont make good arguments ever. I only went to lvl 5 with my human sentinels tech armor and throw is on a 1 sec cooldown and warp is less then 2.6 sec...so im spamming with the best of em but i have a free 40% DR and 20% biotic power increase with it.:happy:

Modifié par darkblade, 02 mars 2012 - 09:30 .

[Xeonzs]

Pff we don't need the bubbles nor the damage buff, I can tell I don't have to use them now, still phantoms can't do sh*t, once you statis'd them they're dead, even when you're the only one trying to kill her and prioritize her, nerf or not, asari adapts will still rule all.

I would like to see warriors getting a weapon damage buff though, at the moment if I want to go all out weapon damage I go for a turian sentinel instead, just put tech armor up, don't care about weight, go for widow and claymore and you're a mobile powerhouse, just hope you have adapt on the team to deal with phantoms.

What needs a nerf however is the carnifex, it's pretty much a widow with faster reload and more ammo once you've unlocked the scope and longer barrel.

Also the phantoms pistol damage is insane, especially since they come in duos, I KNOW the team should use their mic and scream "ZOMG 4 PHANTHOMS JUST SWOOPED UPON US ON THE LANDING PAD!" but usually I am the only one or one of the 2 people talking in a game.

Besides that I love the game as it is.

Modifié par Xeonzs, 02 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[Thunderfurby]

Vaneke wrote...

does anybody have a mature explanation for it?

People generally like a challenge in their games, it's the reason Insanity and Gold modes exist.

Now if there is an ability or weapon that doesn't conform to the general scale and balance of the game, it would be in the best interest of the players and bioware to see that it gets fixed, whether that is by buffing, nerfing, altering or fixing the 'unbalanced' aspect of the game.

Stasis is generally considered overpowered because unlike every other biotic ability in the game, it ignores barriers and shields, making it the go to ability for offenisve and defensive map control, oh and removing the Phantom threat completely.

Also the Carnifex is up there with it's unbalanced issues, the problem is mostly to do with the scope, making it a mini, weightless, rapid-fire sniper-rifle with unnoticable recoil and perfect accuracy, I don't have a problem with it pulling off perfect headshots at point blank range but doing so from across the map just seems silly to me.

Anyway enough rambling, people want to see them nerfed not because they are jealous of others being powerful but because it trivializes the content to an undesirable degree.

Modifié par Thunderfurby, 02 mars 2012 - 09:38 .

[Vaneke]

UK Wildcat wrote...


The asari adept needs to be nerfed to ensure competitive balance EVEN IF the game is revolving around co-op play.

Why?  To provide a reason to have all classes being viable, and not only have 2 classes that get played.  Homogenuity ruins games.  Variety makes games fun.

there's not only two classes being played, you're overexaggerating.

competitive and co-op does not fit into the same sentence.
if i bubble, and you insta snipe (on any difficulty) with your widow x, i'm like, "wow", even if i allready fired some shots at our target.
if they nerf that ability, and you fail to kill it (in a scenario where teams are split) and you die cause of a , let's say, phantom's pew pew, why should i even bother to revive you?
since you wanted more competition, try to compete the trooper that's gonna stomp you when i fall back. :-)

[Xeonzs]

Thunderfurby wrote...

Vaneke wrote...

does anybody have a mature explanation for it?

People generally like a challenge in their games, it's the reason Insanity and Gold modes exist.

Now if there is an ability or weapon that doesn't conform to the general scale and balance of the game, it would be in the best interest of the players and bioware to see that it gets fixed, whether that is by buffing, nerfing, altering or fixing the 'unbalanced' aspect of the game.

Stasis is generally considered overpowered because unlike every other biotic ability in the game, it ignores barriers and shields, making it the go to ability for offenisve and defensive map control, oh and removing the Phantom threat completely.

Also the Carnifex is up there with it's unbalanced issues, the problem is mostly to do with the scope, making it a mini, weightless, rapid-fire sniper-rifle with unnoticable recoil and perfect accuracy, I don't have a problem with it pulling off perfect headshots at point blank range but doing so from across the map just seems silly to me.

Anyway enough rambling, people want to see them nerfed not because they are jealous of others being powerful but because it trivializes the content to an undesirable degree.

Your words are like sweet sugar to me. <3

[Vaneke]

Thunderfurby wrote...

Stasis is generally considered overpowered because unlike every other biotic ability in the game, it ignores barriers and shields, making it the go to ability for offenisve and defensive map control, oh and removing the Phantom threat completely.

with random groups, i have, more then once, saved the third member (two down) from an instant phantom death.
sometimes i can kill it (phantom) with my carnifex I, sometimes it just takes heavy damage, but it saves the round.
if people generally want a weaker adept (like if i would first need to take the barrier and shields and armour down before i can bubble) i can live with that, but don't start complaining afterwards then.

[corporal doody]

ZombieGambit wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

looks like BALANCE changes are indeed in the works. WITH ALL THE GRIEFERS these past few weeks....what REALISTIC changes do you forsee to your beloved class? rather...what DO you forsee being nerfed and/or buffed?



for me...all the griefing about my beloved asari adept and her stasis bubble has me worried that a nerf will be implimented that will make the asari adept nowhere near as fun and turns her near ineffective.

i also think the damage a soldier will deal with a weapon will be buffed.

I don't think you know what griefer means.

i know EXACTLY what griefer means. But maybe you are on to something....maybe the perferred term is WHINERS?!!

Modifié par corporal doody, 02 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Vaneke wrote...

somebody, if they can, explain to me, why in a team based objective game, you would ask game developers to actually make an ability, of one of your own squadmates who watch your back and help you complete the objective, weaker.

You seem to think that the level of difficulty has something to do with the issue. It does not.

This is all about balance. I love variety and that's why I want all the different classes (and powers) to be equally powerful. You know, to encourage people to play with different classes (and powers). Besides, every class in the game can handle phantoms, but asari adept makes it trivial and takes the fun away from the others.

If you're worried that weakening a power will make the game harder, choose an easier difficulty level.

Vaneke wrote...

is it because you don't top the leaderboards?
is it because you don't like adepts, and you don't have an equally powerfull ability?
why?
it's a "team", who cares what rank, or points or money you get. you did it "togheter.

For some people it's hard to understand that even in a co-op game balance matters. It's not about leaderboards, or points, or credits or whatever. Just balance. The game is so much more fun when every member of the team can contribute equally.

Vaneke wrote...

that said, yes, i like asari adept, and yes, i like bubble, but i don't go raging on if an infiltrator snipes my targets in a bubble.
i bubble, fire twice, and they finish it off, or i bubble, and they save me by killing it.

so i'm really amazed, people actually complain about the power of a class.
does anybody have a mature explanation for it?

Please don't be condescending. Many mature explanations have been offered.

PS.
Just to be clear: I love adepts, it was the second class I maxed (right after engineer), and asari is my favorite within the class. Still, I feel stasis is overpowered and should be toned down a bit.

[Thoragoros]

Vaneke wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...


The asari adept needs to be nerfed to ensure competitive balance EVEN IF the game is revolving around co-op play.

Why?  To provide a reason to have all classes being viable, and not only have 2 classes that get played.  Homogenuity ruins games.  Variety makes games fun.

there's not only two classes being played, you're overexaggerating.

competitive and co-op does not fit into the same sentence.
if i bubble, and you insta snipe (on any difficulty) with your widow x, i'm like, "wow", even if i allready fired some shots at our target.  Was thinking he has a point...
if they nerf that ability, and you fail to kill it (in a scenario where teams are split) and you die cause of a , let's say, phantom's pew pew, why should i even bother to revive you?  Until I read this.....um....what?
since you wanted more competition, try to compete the trooper that's gonna stomp you when i fall back. :-)

Overall, I see UK Wildcat's point, and to a degree I do see yours, nevertheless, the Devs stated already that they don't like Nerfing things, and that they prefer to buff what feels weak.  Stasis they said got a very 'minor' Nerf. 

All in all, I think a lot of these buff-nerf discussions are so far very pointless since we haven't seen the other factions, and so we're only talking about balance against one enemy.

A class/Power that seems boss against one enemy, might not work out so well against another.  That is entirely possible, and indeed probable.  Even the devs said that Stasis, which is great against the Cerberus faction, isn't quite as effective against the other factions, which is the reason for their 'minor' nerf.

[Eric13574]

Vaneke wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...


The asari adept needs to be nerfed to ensure competitive balance EVEN IF the game is revolving around co-op play.

Why?  To provide a reason to have all classes being viable, and not only have 2 classes that get played.  Homogenuity ruins games.  Variety makes games fun.

there's not only two classes being played, you're overexaggerating.

competitive and co-op does not fit into the same sentence.
if i bubble, and you insta snipe (on any difficulty) with your widow x, i'm like, "wow", even if i allready fired some shots at our target.
if they nerf that ability, and you fail to kill it (in a scenario where teams are split) and you die cause of a , let's say, phantom's pew pew, why should i even bother to revive you?
since you wanted more competition, try to compete the trooper that's gonna stomp you when i fall back. :-)

It seems like you are purposefully misunderstanding him.  Infiltrater and asari adept are the most effective classes on gold, if they don't get nerfed than the majority of players will use them, because why wouldn't you use the best weapon/class available?  When he says competitive he means that other classes should be able to compete in usefulness, not players competing for top score.

It's about every weapon and class being equally viable, rather than having classes clearly outshine others.

[corporal doody]

Thoragoros wrote...

Overall, I see UK Wildcat's point, and to a degree I do see yours, nevertheless, the Devs stated already that they don't like Nerfing things, and that they prefer to buff what feels weak.  Stasis they said got a very 'minor' Nerf. 

All in all, I think a lot of these buff-nerf discussions are so far very pointless since we haven't seen the other factions, and so we're only talking about balance against one enemy.

A class/Power that seems boss against one enemy, might not work out so well against another.  That is entirely possible, and indeed probable.  Even the devs said that Stasis, which is great against the Cerberus faction, isn't quite as effective against the other factions, which is the reason for their 'minor' nerf.

i agree....
and with all the whining on the board based on what some have seen just IN THE DEMO the devs took notice and are acting on it....NOW IM positive once the game comes out...people will have more beef about things....LOOKING FOR BALANCE so there can be COMPETITIVE gameplay IN CO-OP(?????).

I have never seen an instance of just ONE nerf. There will be more.

I still dont see how people are saying EVERYONE is playing or will play just two classes. I have seen more vanguards and engineers than anyother...yet cuz there is beef....OMFG adepts and infiltrators everywhere.
people gonna hate...and those of us who disagree gonna suffer   that makes me a sad panda

Modifié par corporal doody, 02 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[Thoragoros]

Eric13574 wrote...

Vaneke wrote...

UK Wildcat wrote...


The asari adept needs to be nerfed to ensure competitive balance EVEN IF the game is revolving around co-op play.

Why?  To provide a reason to have all classes being viable, and not only have 2 classes that get played.  Homogenuity ruins games.  Variety makes games fun.

there's not only two classes being played, you're overexaggerating.

competitive and co-op does not fit into the same sentence.
if i bubble, and you insta snipe (on any difficulty) with your widow x, i'm like, "wow", even if i allready fired some shots at our target.
if they nerf that ability, and you fail to kill it (in a scenario where teams are split) and you die cause of a , let's say, phantom's pew pew, why should i even bother to revive you?
since you wanted more competition, try to compete the trooper that's gonna stomp you when i fall back. :-)

It seems like you are purposefully misunderstanding him.  Infiltrater and asari adept are the most effective classes on gold, if they don't get nerfed than the majority of players will use them, because why wouldn't you use the best weapon/class available?  When he says competitive he means that other classes should be able to compete in usefulness, not players competing for top score.

It's about every weapon and class being equally viable, rather than having classes clearly outshine others.

The Asari and Infiltrators are not overpowered, two of the other classes are decidedly underpowered.

Human Soldier - Zero viable offensive abilities.  Concussive shot does virtually no damage, and is outclassed by every other offensive power.  He's basically  a weapon's platform with zero incentive to use weapopns.  Adrenaline rush lacks what makes it useful in SP -- time dilation, leaving it with just a brief damage buff.

Sentinel -- Tech Armor has suffered a severe nerf from ME1 and ME2, and features a brutal cooldown penalty for other powers.

As for Engineers and Vanguards, I have seen plenty of Gold players do well with both class. Engineers have excellent support powers, and drones/turrets provide a decent draw for enemy firepower.  Vanguards, if played right, do fine on Gold, have seen it many times.

Modifié par Thoragoros, 02 mars 2012 - 10:02 .

[Vaneke]

Eric13574 wrote...

It seems like you are purposefully misunderstanding him.  Infiltrater and asari adept are the most effective classes on gold, if they don't get nerfed than the majority of players will use them, because why wouldn't you use the best weapon/class available?  When he says competitive he means that other classes should be able to compete in usefulness, not players competing for top score.

It's about every weapon and class being equally viable, rather than having classes clearly outshine others.

definitily not purposefully misunderstanding him, but reading what you say, ...
okay, so they are the most powerfull, but for example, comparing to a soldier (wich i love so much, my male soldier with his mattock x and carnifex) what are you ever gonna do to balance it.
i do not have a problem with it, i have my cc shot and nades, and i play as fine on gold as i do on bronze.
my abilities will never be on par with cloak or stasis, but from that point of view, i see no justification to nerf said abilities to make me feel more "competitive" when playing soldier.
i play fine as it is, and i'm glad some people have differnt abilities and are more powerfull in certain areas, so we complete each other in game.

[_symphony]

I do feel like an idiot by sticking to the Viper after unlocking the Carnifex.

[Thoragoros]

Vaneke wrote...

Eric13574 wrote...

It seems like you are purposefully misunderstanding him.  Infiltrater and asari adept are the most effective classes on gold, if they don't get nerfed than the majority of players will use them, because why wouldn't you use the best weapon/class available?  When he says competitive he means that other classes should be able to compete in usefulness, not players competing for top score.

It's about every weapon and class being equally viable, rather than having classes clearly outshine others.

definitily not purposefully misunderstanding him, but reading what you say, ...
okay, so they are the most powerfull, but for example, comparing to a soldier (wich i love so much, my male soldier with his mattock x and carnifex) what are you ever gonna do to balance it.
i do not have a problem with it, i have my cc shot and nades, and i play as fine on gold as i do on bronze.
my abilities will never be on par with cloak or stasis, but from that point of view, i see no justification to nerf said abilities to make me feel more "competitive" when playing soldier.
i play fine as it is, and i'm glad some people have differnt abilities and are more powerfull in certain areas, so we complete each other in game.

I posted above you that the Soldier and Sentinel are very underpowered.

The Soldier, frankly, is broken in Co-Op.  His Adrenalin Rush lacks what makes it useful in SP -- the time dilation, leaving it with just a brief damage buff.  Other than, he is a weapon's platform that features zero incentive/buff to his weapons use. 

Concusive shot is outclassed as an offensive ability by virtually every other power in the game.

The answer to fixing the Soldier isn't breaking the Infiltrator and Asari, the answer is giving some buffs to the Soldier, either a passive weapon's damage bonus, increased shields, or a better Adrenaline Rush.

The Soldier is underpowered compared to every class, and that needs to be fixed with buffs to the Soldier, not nerfs to the other classes.

[Sousabird]

I like the op pistols reminds me of halo: combat evolved, stasis I liked cause it made me less likely to crap myself when I fought phantoms as my asari

[UK Wildcat]

Whether one is OP or one is UP or however your frame the argument, the point is that players gravitate to the best classes; regardless of other concerns if said class is more effective overall.

Why would that happen in ME3? Players will want to unlock new things more rapidly, will be told and shown that certain players playing certain classes are having better results and more positively contribute to the team's success.

When you see Infiltrators and Adepts hit about level 15, then start exclusively farming Gold and unlocking everything before everyone else, it's going to demonstrate to people that certain classes are more effective; semantic differences between OP and UP aside.

*I'm not complaining.  I play Infiltrator / Adept primarily because they are my favorite classes and are most conducive to play sniping / mid-range dominance playstyle strategy.  Buffing other classes, or nerfing these two classes, would only hurt me if I cared about effectiveness of my pet classes only.

Also, I love the pistol and the sniper rifles, but I'm okay with other guns being buffed or these guns being slightly nerfed to compensate and make the game more variable.  The best MP experiences have quality variety.

Modifié par UK Wildcat, 02 mars 2012 - 10:25 .