48 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinobu]

Kemmer wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

I always thought Kaidan was mixed race. 

Yeah, with the Ukrainian last name + being born in Singapore, I assumed he was Ukrainian/Asian.  I know plenty of hapa guys that have a similar look.  As for Bioware and racism, as a company they've done a lot better than most.  This doesn't mean your critique is invalid, I'm just more of a glass half-full kind of guy .

Yeah, I haven't seen any of the Uncharted franchise, but I hear it's pretty bad.

Go, Bioware!

[Celtic Latino]

Shinobu wrote...

Kemmer wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

I always thought Kaidan was mixed race. 

Yeah, with the Ukrainian last name + being born in Singapore, I assumed he was Ukrainian/Asian.  I know plenty of hapa guys that have a similar look.  As for Bioware and racism, as a company they've done a lot better than most.  This doesn't mean your critique is invalid, I'm just more of a glass half-full kind of guy .

Yeah, I haven't seen any of the Uncharted franchise, but I hear it's pretty bad.

Go, Bioware!

Now this I do agree with. The worst offenders are Def Jam: Icon, the Saints Row series and pretty much every Japanese game in existence that has foreigners. Street Fighter anyone?

[PseudoEthnic]

Ashley is latino, btw.

[Celtic Latino]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Ashley is latino, btw.

Then why is her surname "Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William Levy), but...yeah.

[android654]

Celtic Latino wrote...

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Ashley is latino, btw.

Then why is her surname "Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William Levy), but...yeah.

You can add David Blane to that list of names.

My mother's Dominican, and there are English last names there. Her mothers maiden name is Murray and I have cousins with that name. Also there are plenty of "white" people with hispanic names.

Celtic Latino wrote...

My issue is does it matter?

Why does every love interest have to be white in BioWare games? Let's see they already have....Morrigan, Kaidan, Alistair, Leliana, Merrill, Fenris, Jaheira, Aerie, Ashley, Kelly, Miranda, Jack etc.....

If he is Dominican/Black Latino I'll just say finally! Let's just hope he didn't get the afterthought romance treatment like Jacob did.

Not saying that people HAVE to romance someone who is, but playing many BioWare games I'll admit seeing every love interest be white (black/red haired Caucaisan girl or fair haired white dude) gets tiring. Other people play BioWare games besides the main targeted demographic ya know. I just hope if he is he isn't given the stereotypical bad romance treatment that Isabela, Jacob, and Zevran got (the traditional 'promiscuous loveless minority that's purely a sex act while all those who are fair are the true romance' gig-kinda hard not to see the racist implication there). 

Sorry it had to be a little personal but this thread kinda got to me. <_<

Ashley's not white. Neither is Vega, although I'm not sure if he's a LI.

Modifié par android654, 03 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[Redditaur]

In the "sex" scene I saw a video of he was so dark I could only see his eyes and mouth. It was very creepy.

P.S I'm not racist. It's what I saw.

[Celtic Latino]

android654 wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Ashley is latino, btw.

Then why is her surname "Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William Levy), but...yeah.

You can add David Blane to that list of names.

My mother's Dominican, and there are English last names there. Her mothers maiden name is Murray and I have cousins with that name. Also there are plenty of "white" people with hispanic names.

Celtic Latino wrote...

My issue is does it matter?

Why does every love interest have to be white in BioWare games? Let's see they already have....Morrigan, Kaidan, Alistair, Leliana, Merrill, Fenris, Jaheira, Aerie, Ashley, Kelly, Miranda, Jack etc.....

If he is Dominican/Black Latino I'll just say finally! Let's just hope he didn't get the afterthought romance treatment like Jacob did.

Not saying that people HAVE to romance someone who is, but playing many BioWare games I'll admit seeing every love interest be white (black/red haired Caucaisan girl or fair haired white dude) gets tiring. Other people play BioWare games besides the main targeted demographic ya know. I just hope if he is he isn't given the stereotypical bad romance treatment that Isabela, Jacob, and Zevran got (the traditional 'promiscuous loveless minority that's purely a sex act while all those who are fair are the true romance' gig-kinda hard not to see the racist implication there). 

Sorry it had to be a little personal but this thread kinda got to me. <_<

Ashley's not white. Neither is Vega, although I'm not sure if he's a LI.

I do agree since latino is not a 'race' per se (there's plenty of white latinos I certainly acknowledge that, my father is a 'white' Puerto Rican so to say), it's just when I first played ME1 Ash never struck me as latina (initially). If anyone's got the confirmation on Ash's ethnicity do pm me the link (being serious). 

And we didn't get Vega till ME3. Just sayin'. But it is nice to have him in regardless 

[fredward55]

Celtic Latino wrote...

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Ashley is latino, btw.

Then why is her surname "Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William Levy), but...yeah.

Isnt she soposed to be Brazilian?

[android654]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

I doubt BioWare intends to be racist but there's plenty of undertones. 

Mass Effect is supposed to be set where the races have mixed in for the most part. Yet most of the major characters, such as the poster boy Sheploo (blue eyes, fair skin and all), Miranda, Jack, Kaidan, Ashley, Kelly, Dr. Chakwas, pretty much almost everyone is pretty white with the exception of many antagonists (Jeong the evil corrupt while lily-white Juliana and Lizbeth Baynham is 'good', Zaeed the fair skinned mercenary against Vido the latino rival, Kai Leng as Asian, etc...). Plus all the romance options are white with the exception of aliens...and Jacob. And Jacob's pretty much been relegated to a sleazy sex object despite the opportunity for a much better developed romance. 

For a universe that's supposed to be the contrary, its awfully convienient how everyone is white unless they're an antagonist of some sort (or a secondary character like Kasumi). 

I could forgive Dragon Age, yet the few represented minorities in Dragon Age are exact caricatures of traditional stereotypes. Zevran the latin-horn dog, Isabela the dark skinned sex object...while all the 'good, loyal' romances are fair-haired and skinned (Alistair, Anders, Leliana). Even if the universe is set off of Celtic, Norse and Anglo-Saxon lore (which I could understand why the lack of minorities), at least keep what few dark skinned characters there are off every trope imaginable. 

Hate to say it but I do think BioWare, while it may not be their intention, has plenty of racism. And I'm not trying to change this thread or cry foul but I see it for what it is. 

Not racist. You clearly ommitted Anderson and Udina, among others NPC's that you run into, like Samesh Bhatia.

Jeong wasn't evil, just a person working for their equally corrupt company, and Lizbeth was far from innocent; she'd lied about knowing about the Thorian, after all. 

Secondly, the default Shepard may be the poster boy, but Shepard can be any ethnic or racial background based on the decision of the player, let alone gender, thus this example is invalid.

Zaeed wasn't a hero; he was an ex-merc who was betrayed by another one, most likely a white hispanic. This fails also.

Kai Leng as an example? How about Kasumi and her lover as a counterpoint, or Maeko from Mass Effect 1? I mean, you're doing a horrible job making your case here.

As for LI's, I don't really see that as viable here, since the alien LI's were definitely far more popular than the human ones, and I'm just going to shake my head at your "sleazy sex object" comment, since he doesn't act in anyway that extreme, even when Shepard does flirt with him. It seriously bothers me that you'd interpret it as such. Cortez is also a person of color and a love interest.

I might not like how they've treated Jacob's character, but Bioware's far from racist. Can't say about Dragon Age, which was developed by an entirely different department separate from the one responsible for Mass Effect.

Just want to point this out. While in countries in Latin America, the racial dynamic is much like it is here in America, once here they're pretty much lumped into the same category. So, black, white or brown hispanic, they're al in the same ethnicity so it makes no sense to separate them. Ashley can't be used as an example since she is Hispanic. The other examples of promoting seeming caucasian characters is just something that is found in all forms of entertainment and nothing we can do about it. I mean I can probably count all of the shows worth watching that didn't have a white lead, but that's an issue that should be discussed elsewhere.

I will say I'm glad that we got a hispanic character voiced by a hispanic man in Vega, an Indian Brit in Traynor and another hispanic in Cortez (which is one of the most uncommon Carribean last names, but I'll let it slide). Just wish it wasn't in the last chapter of the series.

Modifié par android654, 03 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[av196vad]

You humans are all racist! Lol sorry I just had to say that.

[Kemmer]

Another thing in Bioware's favor is their willingness to have an Indian Brit and a black Hispanic who are also gay. Really, that's a pretty big deal when it comes to mass media portrayals of the various communities that Samantha and Steve are members of. Usually anything that sets a character "apart" is generally held to be mutually exclusive with other such traits. As a multiracial gay man, I appreciate the gesture from Bioware. In this aspect, with Mass Effect 3, they're pretty far ahead of the curve compared to other game companies.

Modifié par Kemmer, 03 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[100k]

Shinobu wrote...

Celtic Latino wrote...

100k wrote...

Spoiler

Too bad Jacob, perhaps the least respected, easily least popular, most well rounded character in the entire series gets shafted by Walters in ME3. Whether BW is racist (which I doubt) or just wanted to pander to the crowds that didn't romance Jacob, he really gets the short end of the stick.

I doubt BioWare intends to be racist but there's plenty of undertones. 

Mass Effect is supposed to be set where the races have mixed in for the most part. Yet most of the major characters, such as the poster boy Sheploo (blue eyes, fair skin and all), Miranda, Jack, Kaidan, Ashley, Kelly, Dr. Chakwas, pretty much almost everyone is pretty white with the exception of many antagonists (Jeong the evil corrupt while lily-white Juliana and Lizbeth Baynham is 'good', Zaeed the fair skinned mercenary against Vido the latino rival, Kai Leng as Asian, etc...). Plus all the romance options are white with the exception of aliens...and Jacob. And Jacob's pretty much been relegated to a sleazy sex object despite the opportunity for a much better developed romance. 

For a universe that's supposed to be the contrary, its awfully convienient how everyone is white unless they're an antagonist of some sort (or a secondary character like Kasumi). 

I could forgive Dragon Age, yet the few represented minorities in Dragon Age are exact caricatures of traditional stereotypes. Zevran the latin-horn dog, Isabela the dark skinned sex object...while all the 'good, loyal' romances are fair-haired and skinned (Alistair, Anders, Leliana). Even if the universe is set off of Celtic, Norse and Anglo-Saxon lore (which I could understand why the lack of minorities), at least keep what few dark skinned characters there are off every trope imaginable. 

Hate to say it but I do think BioWare, while it may not be their intention, has plenty of racism. And I'm not trying to change this thread or cry foul but I see it for what it is. 

I kind of get this vibe, too. Jacob's LM struck me as a pretty stereotypical "black sexual predator" setup that I found distasteful. Al Jilani and Udina don't help. On the other hand, we do get Gianna Parasini, Alicia (? The woman in charge of defense at Zhu's Hope), Emily Wong, Kasumi and Admiral Anderson. I always thought Kaidan was mixed race. I think Bioware is trying hard not to be racist but may subconsciously play into stereotypes.

@ OP, why does it matter to you? Talk to the guy and see if you like him.

While I definitely can see how most of the major characters in ME are white, and the minority human cast are usually either minor or evil, I don't see that as much more than a coincidence. 

But when it comes down to Jacob in particular, I actually agree with you guys, but for the exact opposite reason.

In my opinion, BW tried so hard to NOT make Jacob a stereotype, that they ruined some parts of his character's potential. Rather than fixing his character for the player-minority who romanced/liked him, they instead further ruined his romance for the player majority who didn't romance/like him.

That's the real insult. I can't emphasize this enough, but Jacob's character in ME2 had SO MUCH potential. More than Miranda's. More than just about anyone's. He's a Shepard-style exprotagonist, who works for a organization he disagrees with. He's well rounded from both a lore and personal standpoint. He's a character who is described as having an unsure future, meaning that Jacob, like Garrus, should be crafted by Shepard and his actions. He is the ONLY character in ME2 who asks Shepard the personal question about emotional baggage (and I exclude Liara because her DLC came out much later). 

I don't know what reasons BW has for doing what they did, and I don't know exactly how Jacob's story unfolds in ME3, but I can say that I really wish that the ME2 cast got the justice they deserved. The amount of variables at the end of ME2 really limited the team's wishes for ME3. 

[J-Reyno]

Frozen83 wrote...

Ummm, what? No one smells that? Just me? M.

Definitely not just you.

Considering that you don't want any other spoilers, OP, I have to wonder why the hell you don't just wait until you play the damn game to find out.  You'll have ample opportunity to see him for yourself and determine whether he's too black to have buttsecks with.  

[Demonique]

Kemmer wrote...

It looked more like a lighting issue. Other pics of him point toward a multiracial background, including blue eyes in one shot that makes him look like a relative of Wentworth Miller.  Aside from that, Cortez has a great voice.

Eh, are we even sure that that was Steve in the demo? Normandy could have more than one shuttle pilot

Shinobu wrote...

I kind of get this vibe, too. Jacob's LM struck me as a pretty stereotypical "black sexual predator" setup that I found distasteful. Al Jilani and Udina don't help. On the other hand, we do get Gianna Parasini, Alicia (? The woman in charge of defense at Zhu's Hope), Emily Wong, Kasumi and Admiral Anderson. I always thought Kaidan was mixed race. I think Bioware is trying hard not to be racist but may subconsciously play into stereotypes.

@ OP, why does it matter to you? Talk to the guy and see if you like him.

I think one of the developers or writers said Ashley was part latino

Celtic Latino wrote...

Then why is her surname "Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William Levy), but...yeah.

Why does Anderson have a European name when he's black?

Stop overanalyzing

Modifié par Demonique, 03 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[MissMaster]

Celtic Latino wrote...



Then why is her surname
"Williams" and not "Sanchez" or "Delgado"? Not saying there aren't
latinos with non Spanish/Portugese last names (Bernie Williams, William
Levy), but...yeah.

Wow. My last name is German with two dots over the 'O' and I'm black. 

You guys...


Sometimes....this place kills me.

Modifié par MissMaster, 03 mars 2012 - 11:31 .

[Michale_Jackson]

I thought he was suppose to be White too. My Shepard is black, and whenever I talk to Cortez my skin lightens up.

I don't know what to make of this, I'm guessing skin tone glitch. It's kind of scary too, when you see your Shepard go from one skin tone color to another so drastically.

I mean who in the real world has ever done that?

[Dapper Pomegranate]

Cortez's skin tone seems to match the lighting, oddly enough. In bright lighting, he's quite light-skinned, not that much darker than Sheploo. In the shuttle, he's orange, but I guess that one makes sense <.< And in Purgatory/Shepard's cabin, he's super dark to the point you can't even see his face. Which is a bit unfortunate, given that those two are the romantic dialogues. But to directly answer your question: sometimes, yes.

[atheelogos]

Black? I just thought he was mixed. Like most people in ME.