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[NeMounet]

1) I'm not english / American, and this is a wall of text, so sorry in advance for misspelling, grammar errors, etc.

2) for the tl;dr version, juste read intro / concl

3)This post is splitted in (nearly) independtant section, if you are interrested in a specific point only.

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 Introduction
In this post I will discuss the leaked endings of ME3, and (try to) explain why these endings are great.I'll try to give an insight on why they completly make sense and show that Bioware has great writers, who areable to mix old storytelling canon together to produce a great story, with strong references to past literary masterpiece.I'll try to mention every major concern of the forum's community, and explain why mostly are not pointless.

1 - Preliminaries
First, I'll start with some generalities about Bioware, and some consideration about fiability of the leaked Endings


1.1 BiowareFor me Bioware is not about making great new story, nor about making great game from sucessful concept.
Bioware's games can be summarized in two words : Storytelling and innovative gameplay.
Bioware makes gameplay-innovative game (story-driven MMO) with a very classic story (kill the big dragon with elves / dwarves / human) but great storytelling.
On a personal note, all bioware's games were great, at the exception of DA2 which has been utterly rushed (but it's still good)
As this post is not about what is and what isn't Bioware, I'll won't go too deep here.



1.2 Leaked content
I'll assume in the reminder of this, that the leaked endings are true.Objectivly, there are a lot of chance that there are true, and we get more and more evidences every days.I remember the DA2 demo, when peoples fear a bad game, and have completly unlikly hopes of beta-non-final-whatever version of the game/story. The fact is : mostly, demo and leaked content are representative of the final product



2 General concern, story telling, mass effect universe
2.1 Ending is more important than Walkthrough
Some peoples claim that no matter the actual content, this game will be bad, because endings are bad. And that no matterwhat happen during the game, the important bit is the endings of it.This is incredibly wrong, and even if the endings are bad, the game isn't ruined.This is a basic thing about telling a great story : a story is not great because of its endings, it's greatbecause what happen during the story.There is no way for a story to be great only because of its endings. Moreover, typical epic journey are not about the finalgoal but about the journey itself. Look at Greek's Myth Ulysse. The ending has nothing incredible in comparison withUlysse's journey.Actually, this is the whole point of the quest of the graal. No matter the final goal, the true interest is in the way to achieve your goal.


2.1 Reaper are no gods

Some says that reapers are no-god, and that ME2 has make reapers "mortal".
So in ME1 Reapers are clearly some kind of Cthulhian gods. Unstoppable, and  non-Understandable. Just read sovereign dialogs with Shepard to see that.Reapers are basically master of the world, the whole galaxy can live, because they allow them, and give the mass relay to them.The only direct apparence of the reapers in ME2 is the derelic reaper. And, as a reminder, this level is full of cthulhu references.Actually, ME2 focus is on something else than reaper, it sets the background for ME3, but when a reaper is encountered, Bioware remember us thata reaper IS a unkillable god.
Basically, ME series is all about galactic peoples wanting being free of their masters. This is not about the masters, but aboutthe galactic peoples. That's why there is so few informations about reapers. This is not the point of the series, the point is being free.


2.3 Galaxy is screw upAs said before, the point of the serie is being free and independant. This is a common theme in story. A slave want to be free of his master.and in every story about this, freedom came with a very hight price !The situation is simple, reapers can domine galaxy because they provide tool to bend the univers laws, if the galactic's peoples want to be free,they have to abandon the tools of theirs masters. Keeping relay intact would be a big error about how this kind of story ends.The idea is that freedom come with a great price.If you want, think Adam and Eve. They live under the control of god, with a symbolic forbidden fruit : the apple. But humans want to be completly free,so they loose god's present, namely the eden.Actually, the whole serie start at new Eden, this is a strong hint about what all of this is about. Being conscient that there is a god, and becomeindependant of him. But in the process (new) eden is lost for ever.


3. More Mass effect-centric considerations
3.1 SHepard IS a Hero
So obviously, shepard is a hero. Indeed, he is a mythological hero, the kind of hero who fight gods, and beat them.Again there are plenty of exemples in greek's mythology.There is one point about this kind of heroes : they don't get old.Hero are always a Hero, They are born as hero, they live as hero, and they die as hero. Being old is not heroic at all.Having a wheelchair is not heroic, being weak is not heroic.
In that case what are the possiblities of ending shepard's story ?
1) The hero die in action, This is very good ending, because the ultimate heroic act is sacrifice.
2) THe hero is physically lifted of his human status (symbolically he is already not a human) and become a god (this is what happen with tiber septim in Skyrim's lore)
3) We introduce difference between the human and the hero. This is the purpose of costume in comics. In that case there is two entities,the human, and the hero. We can see shepard as a space hero, space being his costume. Indeed, shepard action of glory are in a spacialcontext, and so, lifted of his access to space, shepard is no more a hero, he's just a human.
These 3 possibility are exactly corresponding to the 3 endings for shepard in ME3 confirming that Bioware know what there are doing, andthey doing it very well.



3.2 Choices that matters
3.2.1 Long term choices.
Long term choices, in fact are very important. Long term choices are about your character, how you build it, and how he willend. The possibility of keeping shepard alive or not, is just awesome, it allow you to choose what kind of hero shepard is.Is he a hero with a costume, or is he must die, because he has no more purpose ? (see shepard section for details)
An other point, is that choices will matter during game walkthrough. This is more interresting actually. In a game about choices,it is logical to really have to deal with past choices during the game, than having an epilogue at the end.Moreover, as the story end here, there is absolutly no point in delaying choices at the end of the game. it is better to have consequenciesduring the game, to deal with them.Again see the part about walkthrough vs endings for more insights of why walktrhough is important.


3.2.2 Ending choices
This is basically the big choice in the end. Some complain that it is completly unrelated to war effort. As seen above, long term things are aboutshepard's fate. Ending choice is more philosophical, and it is very important.First it is a decision that will affect the whole nature of the galaxy, this make a full sequel nearly impossible as the galaxywill be completly changed from one choice to the other.
The question of the final choice is very hard, and very interesting and can be stated like that :Given two kind of sentient, who can't live together in the same place, what is the thing to do :-merge them, and make everyone the same, but you'll loose diversity-Wipe one side for the sake of the other-Stay here, and spend the eternity in managing the two (imply becoming permanent god for shepard)
A good exemple is magnets.You have a positive magnet and a negative magnet. do you ?-just leave one magnet here and trash the other ?-Scotch / glue them together, but you will lost their magnetic field properties ?-keep them manually in contact, and use one or the other, depends on your needs ?

3.3 LIs are not with shepard
So the point here is that LIs are a story of passion between two person.if shepard and LIs want to build a long-term relationship, they just have to wait to be sure everything will be alright, 2-3 yrs in a life are nothing.But this isn't this kind of relationship, THe shadow broker's DLC's dialog is just shepard and liara joking about that.So Love story between shepard and Lis are about passion.That's really good, because stable long term relationship are not exciting, great love story are about passion.This love is about passion, passion is an emotion, and emotions do not last forever.Think the canon love-story : romeo and juliet. There is no point in juliet being a mother, and cleaning the house  (or Romeo).And so, LIs must die, or at least being unable to be with shepard at the end of the story. it will be ruin the pasion betweenthem, and make an uninteresting love story.(NB : disney's princess movies are not about love story but about an epic quest)


Conclusion :
To conclude, I would mention that Bioware totally could go the forum-fanbase-way, with an easy-happy-predictable-senseless ending.Instead Bioware demonstrated that there are still a great studio, which can make hard CHoices, for the sake of artistical quality.They're staying true to their previous statement about the end of the Shepard's franchise, and definitly ended the story, against all fan-wish and market-wish consideration, which is something not so usual for such a sucessful saga.


thanks for reading BSN, try to not troll too hard 

[Elite Midget]

We'll let the sales speak. If fans wise up this will be DAII all over again, only this time Bioware might actually learn something.

Also, get off your high horse. Fans are asking for an OPTION that they worked hard for. I don't understand why some of you feel the need to belittle everyone that feels cheated that they only have 6 options that are all basically the same depressing thing. Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Finally, not all love is short and fleeting. Many that romanced Liara or VS in ME1 and stayed loyal to ME3. That's years of commitment even when the relationships, especially VS, are suffering a huge downturn. It isn't about passion anymore if you wait that long and try to patch things up, it's the real deal. I'm sure you may not have experienced it, from your response to it, but love does exist.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 02 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[AkiKishi]

The problem in the ending is not really in the tone. But rather you do pointless stuff for no reward. Thats just padding out a short game.

Imagine that in ME2 you did all that planet scanning and loyalty stuff but everyone still died. Kind of removes the point of doing it don't you think ?

Another thing, depending on who your LI is the ending is going to make more or less sense (much like DA2 made more sense as Templar than as a Mage).

The Reaper motivation is a little iffy too. I'd have prefered had they stuck with the dark energy theme.

[LilyasAvalon]

Agreeing with Elite Midget, except I think it'll be reputation that takes a harder hit than sales, just as deadly considering how big ME3 has been advertised and how bad DA2 took it.

[Jackal7713]

Elite Midget wrote...

We'll let the sales speak. If fans wise up this will be DAII all over again, only this time Bioware might actually learn something.

Also, get off your high horse. Fans are asking for an OPTION that they worked hard for. I don't understand why some of you feel the need to belittle everyone that feels cheated that they only have 6 options that are all basically the same depressing thing. Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Finally, not all love is short and fleeting. Many that romanced Liara or VS in ME1 and stayed loyal to ME3. That's years of commitment even when the relationships, especially VS, are suffering a huge downturn. It isn't about passion anymore if you wait that long and try to patch things up, it's the real deal. I'm sure you may not have experienced it, from your response to it, but love does exist.

EM you hit the mark in your post. "Fans are asking for an OPTION that they worked hard for." Not even having the option after three games is just wrong. Thanks for posting this:D

[FJVP]

Elite Midget wrote...

We'll let the sales speak. If fans wise up this will be DAII all over again, only this time Bioware might actually learn something.

Also, get off your high horse. Fans are asking for an OPTION that they worked hard for. I don't understand why some of you feel the need to belittle everyone that feels cheated that they only have 6 options that are all basically the same depressing thing. Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Finally, not all love is short and fleeting. Many that romanced Liara or VS in ME1 and stayed loyal to ME3. That's years of commitment even when the relationships, especially VS, are suffering a huge downturn. It isn't about passion anymore if you wait that long and try to patch things up, it's the real deal. I'm sure you may not have experienced it, from your response to it, but love does exist.

+1 Well said.

[Halo Quea]

Wow, this game is going to have NO replay value at all with these kinds of scenarios. I don't care how many Shepards you have to import, NO ONE is going to want to play these endings over and over again.

[Elite Midget]

This is clearly an alternate universe, no one is supposed to be agreeing with me. I'm the Doomsayer, darn it.

[albertalad]

NeMounet
You sure as heck slapped lipstick on that pig - but its still a pig! Living and having to rebuild in the aftermath is the really hard choice - dying is the easy way out of it. How you came up with Gods is well beyond me - no one in Mass Effect even considered them Gods except you.

From Captain Corelli's Mandolin and I quote: "When you fall in love, it is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake, and then it subsides. And when it subsides, you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots are become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the desire to mate every second of the day. It is not lying awake at night imagining that he is kissing every part of your body. No... don't blush. I am telling you some truths. For that is just being in love; which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over, when being in love has burned away. Doesn't sound very exciting, does it? But it is!"

That my friend is what real love IS - obviously you have never known any love to write the garbage you wrote.

[LilyasAvalon]

It's just THAT bad, Midget.

[AkiKishi]

Halo Quea wrote...

Wow, this game is going to have NO replay value at all with these kinds of scenarios. I don't care how many Shepards you have to import, NO ONE is going to want to play these endings over and over again.

It's a bit of a slap in the face to the people who have been perfecting the perfect playthrough over ME/2.

[Siegdrifa]

It's very good for you if you like the ending (no sarcasme), it's always better to invest your money in something you will enjoy, and this is a totaly subjective matter.

NeMounet wrote...

1) The hero die in action, This is very good ending, because the ultimate heroic act is sacrifice.

That i strongly disagree because good ending isn't about a magicla formal that always works the same way.
The hero dieyng in a balze of glory to become a legend is in my opinion more due to an uncreatif and lazzy writting that can't find enough inspiration to make a "great ending".

It is like getting hungry and ordering a pizza... never fail ! god damn ****** cliché, BUT it do the job.
If you love pizza "woohoooo awsome idea !"
If you are tired of pizza or don't like it "... do you know that it's not the only ***** food that exist in the world damit !!!"

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 02 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[Sporothrix]

Yet another post which the only purpose is to anger people and belittle their opinions, but in the end that's actually do only good - it shows how outnumbered are people who like those endings (which is even not so certain that they actually do like them, since at it seems it's usually only a pose to anger others) and it keeps the spirit in the fanbase.

Modifié par misoretu9, 02 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[crimzontearz]

de gustibus non disputandum est. You are free to like the endings but we are equally free to hate them ...and we do

[Elite Midget]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

It's just THAT bad, Midget.

I was expecting people to be telling me they told me so, I'm disapointed that Bioware didn't even offer that.

[_Martyr_]

Elite Midget wrote...

Fans are asking for an OPTION that they worked hard for. I don't understand why some of you feel the need to belittle everyone that feels cheated that they only have 6 options that are all basically the same depressing thing. Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

^



*spoiler alert*























*im serious*

















Plus, I don't get a LOT of things.

#1: Joker flying a damaged Normandy (flame bursts here and there before the blast/wormhole thingy? suspicious, maybe war assets/sidequests MATTER)

#2: Why on earth is the Normandy away from the entire fleet that came to save Earth, Citadel included? Something is off here. 

#3: Regarding the 1.00+ "ending" on youtube, in the last 0.05 secs we can see that the Normandy kinda blows up.

#4: Why does the blast torn the engines apart? What happens to the entire galactical fleet? Based on assumptions that people are doing (norm stranded) the  whole ****ing fleet should strand somewhere if the blast hits one system after the other



What i mean is, open your eyes. It's not denial, it's facts. The journey ends differently, imo. The ending that Xoi&crew posted is one of the "brutal" endings the staff hinted.

Modifié par _Martyr_, 02 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[WeWant]

Elite Midget wrote...

Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Yes. 
Sad endings, when optional are useless because they lose their dramatic impact. People would just reload their game and try to get the "happy" ending instead.
Were you emotionally affected when you saw your squadmated die in ME2? No because you knew that you can save everyone.
Virmire was much better done because no matter what you do, someone is gonna die. You just got to choose who it will be.
That's what I wanted for ME3. 
Cry me a river.

Modifié par WeWant, 02 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[the_one_54321]

I FEEL SO STRONGLY ABOUT SUNSHINE-AND-RAINBOW ENDINGS THAT NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY DISAGREE WITH ME. MY EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT AND MOTIVATION CLEARLY TRUMPS ANY NARRATIVE AND WRITING EXPERTISE OF THE STAFF OR THE OPINIONS OF ANY PLAYERS THAT DON'T FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME ABOUT SUNSHINE-AND-RAINBOW ENDINGS.

NOW LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY.

/end sarcasm

Yeah, that really is what some of you sound like.

[MythicLegands]

No the endings are bad with all the implications of what happens after the battle.

[WytPony]

I've read the ending details and from the looks of things it sounds like the way DA 2 went about half way through and also the way it ended...The way that game ended really made me regret buying the game and I only realized a few months after playing.

I realized that I wasn't okay at all with the game and at that point I actually regret preordering the game and getting the signature edition...You could have only bought the Signature at a set amount of time and after that you couldn't buy it anymore. It's as if the marketing guys KNEW the game was going to be like that so they preemptively thought by using a very deceitful strategy (get it before this date or you won't get this extras EVVEEEER) they ensured sales would be good despite the reception of the game.

I felt stupid that I bit into the bait and I also felt cheated but those feelings didn't come up until a few months later. I initially didn't feel bad but I didn't feel happy finishing the game either but as time passed and then I played other games, I really did feel that I was robbed of my money and it really pissed me off actually buying the game.

People can defend the ending all they want but I won't be coerced into buying this game anymore just by their mere reputation. The other thing that seems very preposterous is that the endings are also influenced by the Galactic Readiness, which we all know is ALSO influenced by the multiplayer aspect of the game. Not only do you need to work for a "better" ending in the single player but you also need to grind it out in the MP. That seems ridiculous to me.

Ever since playing DA 2 and also seeing so much of the Bioware brand being plastered in just about everywhere (the new Command & Conquer game for example) for marketing purposes, I was right to worry about the direction the developer was taking. So now I'll probably won't buy this game day one or ever depending on the reception. Instead I'll spend my money supporting a good developer of RPG's such as CD Projekt Red by getting their 360 version of Witcher 2 coming out later in the year. Playing the Witcher 2 was probably the most fun I've had in a RPG since the first Dragon Age (and also Skyrim but Skyrim came out after The Witcher 2). So yeah I'm glad that the leak happened since it saved me money and also additional disappointment.

Modifié par WytPony, 02 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[WytPony]

Oh yeah there are three choices at the end of the game for those who don't know, with different variations depending on Galactic Readiness... I 've read the detailed synopsis of each choice over in a different gaming forum. I don't want to spoil it for the rest of those who are going to read this so if you are curios just google it.

[Chuvvy]

Elite Midget wrote...
Bioware might actually learn something.

HA!

They'll blame pirates and 4chan.

[Big I]

NeMounet wrote...
snip

Three things from your OP I want to mention.

1) Ulysses
I assume this is the Odyssey? The whole point of the Odyssey is that Odysseus is trying to get home. That's the premise. If he never got home, or got home only to find that his wife had remarried and his journey was for nothing? That would ruin the story. The destination is the point.


2) Technology=slavery
This idea is foolish and goes against all known human history. Science and technology are ethically neutral. If a bad man constructs a car it doesn't make the car evil. Tools can only be used ethically or unethically, they have no moral bias regardless of their origin. History is full of examples of conquered peoples using the technology of their oppressors to their advantage.


3) Passion
The idea that tragedy is necessary for a great love story, or that it is suited to this instance is false.  Firstly because the idea of building towards a couple having a future together is just as valid a foundation for a great romance (e.g. Pride and Prejudice). Secondly because in this instance some romances are predisposed to such an outcome (discussing having children with Liara, reassuring Miranda that you won't die etc). Those romances work better if there is a future for them.

[Elite Midget]

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Yes. 
Sad endings, when optional are useless because they lose their dramatic impact. People would just reload their game and try to get the "happy" ending instead.
Were you emotionally affected when you saw your squadmated die in ME2? No because you knew that you can save everyone.
Virmire was much better done because no matter what you do, someone is gonna die. You just got to choose who it will be.
That's what I wanted for ME3. 
Cry me a river.

Maybe in your opinion. Not all want a happy ending and I know many that tried to make the perfect sad ending for ME2 that was importable. Just because you feel that a happy choice invalidates the sad choices doesn't maen there shouldn't be an option in a series about choices. Furthermore, if everyone wanted sunshines and rainbows we would have far less Renegades.

[xtorma]

2.1 The reaper derelect pretty much died when it went into the brown dwarf, so they are not unkillable gods. If they were , they would not have done all the subterfuge with saren, or with the collectors. they would have simply arrived, . All they were interested in was humans, they could have isolated earth by shutting down that mass relay, killed all the other races and then mined earth for grey goo at thier leisure.

so sorry , I don't buy your explaination.

Modifié par xtorma, 02 mars 2012 - 06:35 .