216 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...
You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy.

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

Exactly! The sad ending doesn't mean anything if you can just avoid it.

[_Martyr_]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Whaaaaaaaaaat? I haven't heard anywhere that Shepard screws everyone over only find out that he didn't need to.

Metaphorically, not literally.

Plus, lots of people are let down by one of 6-7 outcomes (which can be affected by other variables Xoi&Crew didn't count) I'm still hanging on this sparkle of hope.


About the endings, SAD endings are splitted in
BAD sad endings = **** = The Mist / Matrix
GOOD sad endings = bittersweet = The Gladiator

Modifié par _Martyr_, 02 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[Elite Midget]

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 02 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[FJVP]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...
Just because you feel that a happy choice invalidates the sad choices doesn't maen there shouldn't be an option in a series about choices.

The implication is simply that if there are to be sad endings, then there cannot be an everyone-is-happy ending. Because the existence of such an ending robs the sad ending of all meaning. It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Sometimes stories don't without some tears. Either way, it sure sounds to me like Shepard wins against the reapers.

I would have preferred at the very least a bittersweet ending for the ones that romanced Liara, Garrus or Tali, or the ones that will romance the new LIs. I personally don't have much of a problem with the endings (though I'm still kinda annoyed by them) since my cannon LI is Miranda, so I can still accomplish my ideal ending by making certain sacrifices and thus getting my bittersweet ending. But for those who romance Liara, Garrus or Tali (Liara especially) there can be no such thing as they are left starnded no matter what.

I believe that the people raging over the endings would have been fine if an opportunity to remain with their LIs was present, even if it meant making some sacrifices as well. But as it is now it seems that there is no such thing. That's my take on the situation anyway.

Modifié par FJVP, 02 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[WeWant]

Elite Midget wrote...


Truth be told, I didn't know your Squaddies could die in my first ME2 playthrough and didn't know Wrex could die either in ME1. I just did all my side missions and stayed true Paragon. Though I did make a sad save with as many dead as I could because I wanted to see how vastly different they would be in ME3. Apparantly not so much.

I lost 4-5 squaddies at my first playthrough. The impact of losing them disapeard when I discovered soon after that you could save them just by doing some different choices.

Nothing to do with Virmire, when I knew that I would definitely send one of them to death. But I still had a choice to select who was, I wasn't so much railroaded. That's the same here. You het to sacrifice things, but you can still choose what to sacrifice.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Was it too much to add even one high note ending? Whould that have angered the grimdarkers and make them believe someone pissed in their cheeros? No, it wouldn't.

Yes. 
Sad endings, when optional are useless because they lose their dramatic impact. People would just reload their game and try to get the "happy" ending instead.
Were you emotionally affected when you saw your squadmated die in ME2? No because you knew that you can save everyone.
Virmire was much better done because no matter what you do, someone is gonna die. You just got to choose who it will be.
That's what I wanted for ME3. 
Cry me a river.

Virmire wasn't a hard choice.>_>

[the_one_54321]

FJVP wrote...
I believe that the people raging over the endings would have been fine if an opportunity to remain with their LIs was present, even if it meant making some sacrifices as well. But as it is now it seems that there is no such thing. That's my take on the situation anyway.

Final Fantasy X.

Maybe a lot of people here don't like those kinds of games, but that's not really the point. The point is the progression of that story and the way it ends. Exactly what you spoke of above, and one of the most emotional endings ever. Players across the world were in tears. And that is not an exageration.

[LilyasAvalon]

@WeWant: In my opinion, that just makes you a lazy gamer then. I've ADORED replaying ME1 and ME2 to do different choices and different outcomes.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...
You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy.

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

Exactly! The sad ending doesn't mean anything if you can just avoid it.

Thats kind of the point of a game over a movie or book. You put in the work and you get the "true end".

If you want a different end you play for that one instead.

If I use Ateleir Totori as an example. The "true end" is so much more important to the character and I kind of liked Totori, that it's worth the extra 10-15 hours to get it.

ME3 is wasting my time as gamer, giving me pointless tasks that just inflate gametime and have no purpose. I find that insulting. It would be like having everyone die in ME2 even if you spend all that time doing planet scanning.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 02 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...
Thats kind of the point of a game over a movie or book. You put in the work and you get the "true end".

And why does the true end need to be happy? 

I mean, I'm not totally against the idea of it being happy. But the implication is that it wasn't really sad in the first place.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

FJVP wrote...
I believe that the people raging over the endings would have been fine if an opportunity to remain with their LIs was present, even if it meant making some sacrifices as well. But as it is now it seems that there is no such thing. That's my take on the situation anyway.

Final Fantasy X.

Maybe a lot of people here don't like those kinds of games, but that's not really the point. The point is the progression of that story and the way it ends. Exactly what you spoke of above, and one of the most emotional endings ever. Players across the world were in tears. And that is not an exageration.

That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3. And the other thing, thats a game with a single ending. Not really the same thing.

[john-in-france]

I wanted the whole monty...not just the heroic sacrifice of the heros journey, but also the psychological changes of the heroines journey. To fulfil all options there needs to be a true happier ending. Not just the dark and dismal of the heros journey...we don't all play Maleshep/Ulysses/Gilgamesh!

I stand for choice, maybe not rainbows and ponies, but at least Shepard being stranded with her crew.

[_Martyr_]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...
You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy.

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

Exactly! The sad ending doesn't mean anything if you can just avoid it.

We're not saying that they are pointless, we're saying that a game shouldn't ALWAYS end sadly/badly/bittersweetly

Take Prince of Persia Warrior Within for example, you just rush to the endgame, not collecting life upgrades, you kill Kaileena, the Dahaka gets what he wants and you sail off the island (bittersweet: you live, yeah, but at what cost)
You get all life upgrades, you save the princess, kill the Dahaka and sail off.
Happy ending? Yes, you **** with Kaileena too, awesome!
NOT. Your city is burning.(Not-so-much-bittersweet, but still a very good ending)


Point of this rant? You work hard, you get rewarded. You try your best saving the ****ing galaxy, you get the job done. You stay faithful to your lover, you deserve to get at least a "hint" of a future together.

[Elite Midget]

Persona 4 reminds of multiple endings(With Failure ones, a normal one, unsolved mystery, and the much harder True Ending) and choices. Why is it that I have more choices, that actually amount to something, in a PS2 game than a far more "modern" trilogy that was built under the premise of choices matter?

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
Thats kind of the point of a game over a movie or book. You put in the work and you get the "true end".

And why does the true end need to be happy? 

I mean, I'm not totally against the idea of it being happy. But the implication is that it wasn't really sad in the first place.

Well I don't want to give away Totori spoilers because it's quite recent. But Suikoden works well enough, getting the 108 stars gives you a different ending to getting 107 in a rather significant way.

ME3 wants you to put the work in, get high GR/Assets but just gives you another flavour of crap as your reward.

[Elite Midget]

john-in-france wrote...

I wanted the whole monty...not just the heroic sacrifice of the heros journey, but also the psychological changes of the heroines journey. To fulfil all options there needs to be a true happier ending. Not just the dark and dismal of the heros journey...we don't all play Maleshep/Ulysses/Gilgamesh!

I stand for choice, maybe not rainbows and ponies, but at least Shepard being stranded with her crew.

Ummm.. Ulysses(Odysseus) did get a happy ending. After all that time he finally returned to his wife even when he was charmed by a extremely powerful being and had impossible tasks placed before him over and over again to hinder his journey.

[the_one_54321]

Elite Midget wrote...
Persona 4 reminds of multiple endings(With Failure ones, a normal one, unsolved mystery, and the much harder True Ending) and choices. Why is it that I have more choices, that actually amount to something, in a PS2 game than a far more "modern" trilogy that was built under the premise of choices matter?

Because the true ending is the True Ending. None of the other endings are the True Ending. You could have lots of options and the True Ending is sad. Then the True Ending is sad. That's the only way for the true ending to actually be sad.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

But it was not bleak all around. Yes Tidus "dies" but everyone else is alive and they get to say thier goodbyes. Then you have Yunas speech which is all about the future which made the sacrifice worthwhile.

If you want to talk shocking end. Killzone 3, that just had me staring at the screen stunned for about 5 minutes.

But in both cases it's a fixed ending. It's not running me through the maze in promise of cheese and rewarding me with a ****sandwich.

[Elite Midget]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

You do know X-II is canon and the perfect ending is the canon one. They did put in a depressing ending in it but that's if you literally failed hard at the game.

[WeWant]

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

[the_one_54321]

Elite Midget wrote...
You do know X-II is canon and the perfect ending is the canon one. They did put in a depressing ending in it but that's if you literally failed hard at the game.

Yeah, but that's a seperate game at a much later time. At that point you've moved on emotionally and only have the memories. I did mention elsewhere about this kind of a situation. It's really about timing.

BobSmith101 wrote...
But it was not bleak all around. Yes Tidus "dies" but everyone else is alive and they get to say thier goodbyes. Then you have Yunas speech which is all about the future which made the sacrifice worthwhile.

It's not running me through the maze in promise of cheese and rewarding me with a ****sandwich.

The only thing you're really guaranteed for winning in ME is that the reapers don't cause total extinction. And that happens. Not really bleak at all. Shepard wins. Reapers lose.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 02 mars 2012 - 07:17 .

[NeMounet]

Siegdrifa wrote...

NeMounet wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...

It's very good for you if you like the ending (no sarcasme), it's always better to invest your money in something you will enjoy, and this is a totaly subjective matter.

NeMounet wrote...

1) The hero die in action, This is very good ending, because the ultimate heroic act is sacrifice.

That i strongly disagree because good ending isn't about a magicla formal that always works the same way.
The hero dieyng in a balze of glory to become a legend is in my opinion more due to an uncreatif and lazzy writting that can't find enough inspiration to make a "great ending".

It is like getting hungry and ordering a pizza... never fail ! god damn ****** cliché, BUT it do the job.
If you love pizza "woohoooo awsome idea !"
If you are tired of pizza or don't like it "... do you know that it's not the only ***** food that exist in the world damit !!!"

Agree with you on that, and maybe I haven't been clear enought (my bad).

Bioware adapt classic story in game, they create nothing new (on the story side). But they doing it so good. Putting together so many well know theme in a (mostly) coherent story is not so easy.

Indeed if you don't like this kind of story, that's alroght, there is no "way to think" and my post should be a bit misleading on this part.

To reuse your pizza stuff. My point is Bioware make great Pizza, if you like Pizza, that's good, if you don't like it, you can complain that they should do chinese food. But do not ask them to make a Nem with a pizza. it won't be a good Pizza, nor a good Nem.

But again, for me there is no surprise here, as since ME1 we know this will be a good damn Pizza

Héhé, to stay with the pizza stuff i could argue that Bioware is used to include some few pizza on teir meny without ham or mushroom, and for ME3 you can't get any pizza without ham or mushroom, and as a pizza lover, it totaly ruine my need of pizza.  : ))
Now personnaly i'll wait to play the game and see the ending to forge my own opinion, may be some people are over reacting about the very bitter lightly sweet ending, i'll know for myself in few days.

ok so let's make Pizza then.

DA (1 & 2) are average Pizza, same content with different set up each time (mushroom / ham)

ME's pizza are supposed to be eaten at the same lunch. And as Pizza usually have mushroom/ham. if the two first
haven't there is two possibilities : 1) This is a (mushroom/ham)-less Pizza serie or 2) Mushroom/ham are on the third.

So we have proven that BW's games can be approximated by Pizza ?