216 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

When it comes to "Art" it dosent matter how depressing/happy the ending is, only how good it is. An Example that comes to mind is the ending for Bioshock 1. It changed depending on the players choices, it's uplifting (If you get the good one) and wraps things up nicely. Gridmark as the game was, having a happy ending did not take away from that, and nor was it predictable. It made saving all of those little sisters worthwhile. I'd call it an artistic and unusual ending. 

The problem with Mass Effect's ending is not only the fact that it's depresing and there are no happy variants, but the fact that it makes no sense at all. From what we can gather so far the Geth are destroyed inexplicably, despite not being related to the Reapers in any shape or form, and the Normandy randomly leaving Earth in the final battle comes across as nothing more than an ass pull to designed to turn the ending into some bad parody of genesis or Lost. Adding in the fact that Garrus/Tali will certainly starve and how much inbreeding will be going on it looks like they didn't even think things through. 

And the other endings are even worse. One involves what appears to be magic, and takes the series from reasonably well explained science fiction into complete whako town. 

And as other people have said many,many times: The game is supposedly about choice, and they stated multiple times that with no future game they can go all out and have wildly differing outcomes. And yet in the end they make all endings essentially the same. Whatever you do the Normandy is stranded and the Relay's destroyed, your choices mean very little. Even in the Bioshock example above there was more variation in the endings, and this is the game that is supposed to be about choice. 

So I disagree with you entirely. Bioware are not brave for trying something new or going for an "artsy" ending, they clearly wrote half-assed endings that barely make sense in order to shoehorn the series into a future MMO. In the process killing all players choices and going against everything they promised us before when it came to endings. Reading the quotes now is hilarious. 

If you think Bioware deserve praise for that then fine, but I doubt you'll find many who share that view. 

Modifié par EJ107, 02 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[WeWant]

BobSmith101 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...
You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy.

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

Exactly! The sad ending doesn't mean anything if you can just avoid it.

ME3 is wasting my time as gamer, giving me pointless tasks that just inflate gametime and have no purpose. I find that insulting. It would be like having everyone die in ME2 even if you spend all that time doing planet scanning.

Depending of what you did in the game, Earth is eigher ok or destroyed. That doesn't seem useless to me.

[MakeMineMako]

the_one_54321 wrote...

albertalad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I FEEL SO STRONGLY ABOUT SUNSHINE-AND-RAINBOW ENDINGS THAT NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY DISAGREE WITH ME. MY EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT AND MOTIVATION CLEARLY TRUMPS ANY NARRATIVE AND WRITING EXPERTISE OF THE STAFF OR THE OPINIONS OF ANY PLAYERS THAT DON'T FEEL EXACTLY THE SAME ABOUT SUNSHINE-AND-RAINBOW ENDINGS.

NOW LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY.

/end sarcasm

Yeah, that really is what some of you sound like.

And YOU sound like a BW lap dog.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!

Man, I'm not even going to play the game. Not until EA ditches Origin.

Then why comment on what the folks, who will play it, think about the endings?

Oh, and PROTIP: Posting in all caps doesn't make you one of the cool kids.

[AkiKishi]

Elite Midget wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

You do know X-II is canon and the perfect ending is the canon one. They did put in a depressing ending in it but that's if you literally failed hard at the game.

Thats the one that needs 95%+ and for you to remember to whistle in the abyss?

[albertalad]

haynoats wrote...

I disagree OP. Bioware needs to be about their consumers. Without consumers, you have no games, no vision, no company.

Commitment. From Mass Effect to Mass Effect 3. Hours of game play, dollars of support for dlc. Choices carefully made in consideration of future possible consequence. Relationships chosen and either carefully maintained or forfeited for another. Effort. Devotion.

That is just a snapshot of what the faithful players of the series have put into this game. What is the result?

Choices that ultimately make no difference. Relationships that ultimately have no pay-off. An ending which is taken out of the players hands more or less to make sure there is no "Rocky" knockout finish possible for the player to choose. You know....like REAL rpg play.

If people had known a year ago what they know now, there would be no ME3. But you Bioware folks already knew that didn't you? So what did you do? You lied. "Yes choices matter." "Yes people will be pleased with the outcome of the romances." "We think people will be excited out how we chose to end Shepards' saga." "The faithful will be rewarded."

Rewarded my shiney hiney. I cannot fathom that you are that out of touch with your fanbase. Maybe you are. Maybe you are just plain ignorant. Maybe this is how you get your jollies. Maybe this is why Drew and others have fled the company. Maybe you have become just another EA drone company. In any case, I would not be surprised.

Excellent! That's the way I feel and its only growing stronger day by day. BW had and has to be completely out of touch with their own promises THEY made themselves. You can put all the lipstickm in the world on that pig - its still a pig!

[Elite Midget]

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

Yes it is an option. No one is forcing you to get that ending. In a game about choices it's supposed to be up to the player if that's the ending they want and which ones they considered the best.

And no, those aren't choices. They were all pretty much the same thing. Also, which Fallout? The first 2 games had drasticly different endings depending on your choices. F3 and NV as well. They offered a grim ending, a sad ending, a total power ending, a HAPPY ending(Yes the fallout games do have an option for a happy ending.), and the such.

Mass Effect 3 is only offering one type of ending. A depressing one where your choices, in a game about choices, amount to nothing. Ironic that other games, like Persona 4 and the Fallout games, offer more choice and more varied endings than what Bioware has chugged out, huh?

[Legendaryred]

Like somebody else said, what if during ME2 all you have done, loyalty missions, side missions, scanning, buying upgrades and so on so that in the end your ship gets destroyed, shepard dies and your squad mates all die. How would that be? that wouldn't be cool. The problem here is that the endings are the same Christmas tree with different lights. They taken the choices away from the player and the so called " varied endings" were a lie. I, like many others feel cheated and ripped off.

[AkiKishi]

WeWant wrote...
Depending of what you did in the game, Earth is eigher ok or destroyed. That doesn't seem useless to me.

Outside of chapter 1 of ME3 I'd never been to Earth,I'd been to the moon and probed Uranus but not Earth. I probably feel more connected to the Citadel.

[the_one_54321]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

You do know X-II is canon and the perfect ending is the canon one. They did put in a depressing ending in it but that's if you literally failed hard at the game.

Thats the one that needs 95%+ and for you to remember to whistle in the abyss?

And you have to complete this dungeon that requires you to play the game a second time before you have access to the entire thing. It's pretty crazy.

But you can still get a happy "Tidus is back" ending without quite that much effort. But like I said above about the timing and such...

[Corvus Metus]

You know what bothers me?

People who dislike the ending and call people who like it (or just don't care) "Biodrones". Personally, I never give two ****s about the ending. When I play a game, at least for me, it -is- about the journey and not the end.

Am I a Biodrone? Well, I hated the first NWN, have absolutely no intrest in Jade Empire,  and didn't care for Dragon Age: Origins since it was a modern game disguising its self as an "old-school" game.

Let's put it this way. Back in the PS2 era, there was a series called Xenosaga. Storyline-wise, the games intrigued me. The gameplay, however, was just awful. I forced myself through the first two but never bothered with the last because the games themselves were a torture to play.

Meanwhile, Baldur's Gate I? No ending. Replayed many times. Love it.

Modifié par Corvus Metus, 02 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[AkiKishi]

Elite Midget wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

Yes it is an option. No one is forcing you to get that ending. In a game about choices it's supposed to be up to the player if that's the ending they want and which ones they considered the best.

And no, those aren't choices. They were all pretty much the same thing. Also, which Fallout? The first 2 games had drasticly different endings depending on your choices. F3 and NV as well. They offered a grim ending, a sad ending, a total power ending, a HAPPY ending(Yes the fallout games do have an option for a happy ending.), and the such.

Mass Effect 3 is only offering one type of ending. A depressing one where your choices, in a game about choices, amount to nothing. Ironic that other games, like Persona 4 and the Fallout games, offer more choice and more varied endings than what Bioware has chugged out, huh?

I loved NV so many things I did for the right reason at the time turned out not so well in the wrap-up.

[AuggyDoggysan]

haynoats wrote...

I disagree OP. Bioware needs to be about their consumers. Without consumers, you have no games, no vision, no company.

Commitment. From Mass Effect to Mass Effect 3. Hours of game play, dollars of support for dlc. Choices carefully made in consideration of future possible consequence. Relationships chosen and either carefully maintained or forfeited for another. Effort. Devotion.

That is just a snapshot of what the faithful players of the series have put into this game. What is the result?

Choices that ultimately make no difference. Relationships that ultimately have no pay-off. An ending which is taken out of the players hands more or less to make sure there is no "Rocky" knockout finish possible for the player to choose. You know....like REAL rpg play.

If people had known a year ago what they know now, there would be no ME3. But you Bioware folks already knew that didn't you? So what did you do? You lied. "Yes choices matter." "Yes people will be pleased with the outcome of the romances." "We think people will be excited out how we chose to end Shepards' saga." "The faithful will be rewarded."

Rewarded my shiney hiney. I cannot fathom that you are that out of touch with your fanbase. Maybe you are. Maybe you are just plain ignorant. Maybe this is how you get your jollies. Maybe this is why Drew and others have fled the company. Maybe you have become just another EA drone company. In any case, I would not be surprised.

This.

[the_one_54321]

I think that many of players have simply forgotten that the main goal in the ME series is to avoid total extinction.

Not an exaggeration. Saved the species = win.

[FJVP]

the_one_54321 wrote...

FJVP wrote...
I believe that the people raging over the endings would have been fine if an opportunity to remain with their LIs was present, even if it meant making some sacrifices as well. But as it is now it seems that there is no such thing. That's my take on the situation anyway.

Final Fantasy X.

Maybe a lot of people here don't like those kinds of games, but that's not really the point. The point is the progression of that story and the way it ends. Exactly what you spoke of above, and one of the most emotional endings ever. Players across the world were in tears. And that is not an exageration.

That was not my point. I was trying to say that people would have been more satified with some endings if they had a chance to at least achieve a reunion with Shepard and his/her LI. The hero doesnt have to sacrifice to make an ending sad,and it has been done so many times that at this point I just think "meh", whenever I see one.

In fact, the ending would have been much more sad to me if a teammate (maybe even your LI) offered to sacrifice instead. It would have felt more dramatic, kinda like what Alistair does if you romance him and don't do the ritual (even though I don't like him ).

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
That's no where near as much of a downwer as ME3.

It's not??????
Man after playing for like 75 hours, developing the relationship between Tidus and Yuna, and revelaing all the aspects of the story and the quest, to have it end lik that, even if it wasn't a surprise...

From the moment she said "No..." I was bawling. Just a stream of tears.

You do know X-II is canon and the perfect ending is the canon one. They did put in a depressing ending in it but that's if you literally failed hard at the game.

Thats the one that needs 95%+ and for you to remember to whistle in the abyss?

And you have to complete this dungeon that requires you to play the game a second time before you have access to the entire thing. It's pretty crazy.

But you can still get a happy "Tidus is back" ending without quite that much effort. But like I said above about the timing and such...

But it also makes it worth doing. If your going to get the same outcome regardless it removes a lot of the point in replaying the game. This is more with JRPGs but it takes a playthrough normally to get a handle of what the flags are.

In a game that is supposed to be all about choice, it's not an unreasonable expectation in light of ME2.

[Elite Midget]

Corvus Metus wrote...

You know what bothers me?

People who dislike the ending and call people who like it (or just don't care) "Biodrones". Personally, I never give two ****s about the ending. When I play a game, at least for me, it -is- about the journey and not the end.

Am I a Biodrone? Well, I hated the first NWN, have absolutely no intrest in Jade Empire,  and didn't care for Dragon Age: Origins since it was a modern game disguising its self as an "old-school" game.

Let's put it this way. Back in the PS2 era, there was a series called Xenosaga. Storyline-wise, the games intrigued me. The gameplay, however, was just awful. I forced myself through the first two but never bothered with the last because the games themselves were a torture to play.

Meanwhile, Baldur's Gate I? No ending. Replayed many times. Love it.

You should play Tactic Ogres, they even remade it. The game was that good. It's about many different choices that drasticly alter how each chapter ends up, who lives and dies, what side you end up, your allies and enemies, boss fights(one path even lets you recruit the bosses of the other paths) as well as what happens to everyone in the end as well as who was recruitable or not. Bioware should have taken a page from that game because it is perhaps one of the best games to handle choices that matter.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 02 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[WeWant]

Elite Midget wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

Yes it is an option. No one is forcing you to get that ending. In a game about choices it's supposed to be up to the player if that's the ending they want and which ones they considered the best.

And no, those aren't choices. They were all pretty much the same thing. Also, which Fallout? The first 2 games had drasticly different endings depending on your choices. F3 and NV as well. They offered a grim ending, a sad ending, a total power ending, a HAPPY ending(Yes the fallout games do have an option for a happy ending.), and the such.

Mass Effect 3 is only offering one type of ending. A depressing one where your choices, in a game about choices, amount to nothing. Ironic that other games, like Persona 4 and the Fallout games, offer more choice and more varied endings than what Bioware has chugged out, huh?

You have the option to go kill yourself right now. Do you consider it? Nope, becaue it's stupid. So would be the option to die if you had the ability to win the war againsts the reapers with no casualities.

And Deus Ex endings were the same? Hahah. Also tell me what was the happy ending for Fallout New Vegas please, I don't reckon there being one, just morally ambiguous ones. 
What was the best choice in BG between becoming a god or staying with your LI? 

You are confusing two different about ME3. The fact that previous choices doesn't matter have nothing to do with  the endings them selves. Like I said, I would have liked to have a complete dark ending in case you fuc*ed up some of the previous paragon/renegade choices. But again, we can argue that ME has never been a classic RPG.

Modifié par WeWant, 02 mars 2012 - 07:31 .

[Legendaryred]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I think that many of players have simply forgotten that the main goal in the ME series is to avoid total extinction.

Not an exaggeration. Saved the species = win.

That's not even an option anymore, i mean whatever you do it ends up as the reapers getting destroyed. Even if you **** up duing the game you still "save the galaxy".

[Chrillze]

What I have heard it sounds like it's not sure if the planet in the epilouge is the same as the planet that the normandy crashland on and in that case it is all up to interpretation.

[DontReallyKnow]

Just out of curiosity and my apoligies if i have missed this but there must be close to 1000 pages dealing with this.

Do we know for certain that this is the only ending or is everyone going on what may be only partial information.

[Legendaryred]

DontReallyKnow wrote...

Just out of curiosity and my apoligies if i have missed this but there must be close to 1000 pages dealing with this.

Do we know for certain that this is the only ending or is everyone going on what may be only partial information.

I think we are 90% sure that those are the only endings. Unless somehow another ending will magically be added. But, remember what Casey said "ME3 is the perfect game to start and finish the trilogy" wut? 

[Cyricsservant101]

Elite Midget wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

Yes it is an option. No one is forcing you to get that ending. In a game about choices it's supposed to be up to the player if that's the ending they want and which ones they considered the best.

And no, those aren't choices. They were all pretty much the same thing. Also, which Fallout? The first 2 games had drasticly different endings depending on your choices. F3 and NV as well. They offered a grim ending, a sad ending, a total power ending, a HAPPY ending(Yes the fallout games do have an option for a happy ending.), and the such.

Mass Effect 3 is only offering one type of ending. A depressing one where your choices, in a game about choices, amount to nothing. Ironic that other games, like Persona 4 and the Fallout games, offer more choice and more varied endings than what Bioware has chugged out, huh?

This.

Ditto with Deus Ex.  All of the endings in Deus Ex 1-3 range from bittersweet to depressing... but they're all wildly different from each other.  Sacrifices are required, and values might be compromised for what the player percieves to be the "greater good", but choice is never yanked out of the players hands.   The player, in every Deus Ex game, has the opportunity to shape the future of their world. 

Not only that, the Deus Ex games weren't even marketed as having radically different endings where your choices matter (. . . At least not from what I remember).

My biggest problem with Mass Effect 3 is the Molyneux style bait-and-switch. Even Infamous 2, which only has two endings, both of which very heavy on the bitter, provide more variety than ME3.  What's up with that?

[AkiKishi]

Elite Midget wrote...

You should play Tactic Ogres, they even remade it. The game was that good. It's about many different choices that drasticly alter how each chapter ends up, who lives and dies, what side you end up, your allies and enemies, boss fights(one path even lets you recruit the bosses of the other paths) as well as what happens to everyone in the end as well as who was recruitable or not. Bioware should have taken a page from that game because it is perhaps one of the best games to handle choices that matter.

I do love those games with hard to get endings. Disgea is another one, there are some classic endings.

It's called "Let us clingtogether" or something like that (The TO remake).

[Elite Midget]

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

WeWant wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...

You didn't understand me. I WANT the perfect ending, thus I would easily reload my game in order to get it. Just like every person in their "canon" playthrough. It's not that easy. 

So you want to be protected from wanting the perfect ending by there not being one?

I know, it's facinating that some here would rather have less options because they can't handle more options.

Because it's not an option. 

"Hey Shepard, would you rather save the galaxy, live, have children and become a living god or you prefer saving the galaxy, sacrificing yourself or be forever alone in an unknown planet?

It's pure fanservice.

A real choice is Deus Ex ending, Fallout ending and Bladurs Gate ending.

Yes it is an option. No one is forcing you to get that ending. In a game about choices it's supposed to be up to the player if that's the ending they want and which ones they considered the best.

And no, those aren't choices. They were all pretty much the same thing. Also, which Fallout? The first 2 games had drasticly different endings depending on your choices. F3 and NV as well. They offered a grim ending, a sad ending, a total power ending, a HAPPY ending(Yes the fallout games do have an option for a happy ending.), and the such.

Mass Effect 3 is only offering one type of ending. A depressing one where your choices, in a game about choices, amount to nothing. Ironic that other games, like Persona 4 and the Fallout games, offer more choice and more varied endings than what Bioware has chugged out, huh?

You have the option to go kill yourself right now. Do you consider it? Nope, becaue it's stupid. So would be the option to die if you had the ability to win the war againsts the reapers with no casualities.

And Deus Ex endings were the same? Hahah. Also tell me what was the happy ending for Fallout New Vegas please, I don't reckon there being one, just morally ambiguous ones. 
What was the best choice in BG between becoming a god or staying with your LI? 

You are confusing two different about ME3. The fact that previous choices doesn't matter have nothing to do with  the endings them selves. Like I said, I would have liked to have a complete dark ending in case you fuc*ed up some of the previous paragon/renegade choices. But again, we can argue that ME has never been a classic RPG.

I served in the armed forces, I'm more the willing to lay my life on the line to save my fellow man. It's a part of our training. However, I wont just throw my life away and will use it as best I can to save as many as I can. Maybe I'll die, maybe I wont. Whatever the case if I managed to save a life than I did my duty which I can be proud of.

Yes there was a happy one in NV. You can clean up the Republic, force the Brotherhood and the Republic to play nice, liberate the land of Ceaser's Legion, and ensure mny of the outer villages/towns/tribes are destroyed. This ending takes a lot more work than the other ones but it didn't invalidate any of them as fans made multiple characters and obtained many different endings.

Yes they do, Bioware told their fans that the choices from the previous games and in ME3 would effect the endings and those that did everything perfectly and put forth the effort would be rewarded. That isn't the case.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 02 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[Whatever42]

I agree its about Shepard and his fate. And that his fate needs to make sense in terms of the story. This is as much mythology as story. Shepard isn't a character (no development at all), he's a mythological hero.

So dying is a good ending, check. Being raised up is a good ending, check. A triumphal victory is a good ending, check. We have all those.

But then we have the crew. They were real characters with real character arcs. And they seem discarded in the end. If they needed to die to serve some real end in the story, like at Virmire, then that's one thing. But I don't think that's happening here.