216 réponses à ce sujet

[jellobell]

the_one_54321 wrote...

SilencedScream wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And he said "whether you're happy or angry." Kind of implies that you might be angry with the answers you get, doesn't it?

Fair enough.
"Let's make our customers upset. That'll surely get us more sales."

You can be angry at an ending and still feel it was absolutely beautiful...

For crying out loud. You'd think no one here ever witnessed any form of glorious artistic trajedy. Happy = quality AND unhappy = poor quality, is a false statement.

Except that in Mass Effect it doesn't have to be one or the other. They could give us a choice about whether we want a good, bad, or bittersweet ending and people would be satisfied. Just look at ME2's suicide mission; they could've done it like that. All this ending is is railroading.

Modifié par jellobell, 02 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[Jackal7713]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
My point was more about the quote "BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game." If the crew and Sheppard are both stranded, isn't that a "lost" type of ending that leaves more questions then answers?

False. That doesn't need to be open ended at all. They could make it entirely clear what happens to them in the long run.

Could you elaborate please?

[xtorma]

albertalad wrote...

xtorma
Are you for real? Hollywood ending if Sheppard and his crew lived? How about billions dead on earth? Billions more left to die throughout the Galaxy? Hundreds of thousands indoctrinated? Hundreds of thousands killed from other fleets and armies during this battle?

After everything Sheppard and his crew have done to try and save them - is it so much to ask that Sheppard and his crew make it in the end? Not in my world - heck I'd hate to see what YOU call a disaster!

It's the way i played my shepard, you play yours your way. that was the whole point of choice.

[Ksandor]

the_one_54321 wrote...

SilencedScream wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And he said "whether you're happy or angry." Kind of implies that you might be angry with the answers you get, doesn't it?

Fair enough.
"Let's make our customers upset. That'll surely get us more sales."

You can be angry at an ending and still feel it was absolutely beautiful...

For crying out loud. You'd think no one here ever witnessed any form of glorious artistic trajedy. Happy = quality AND unhappy = poor quality, is a false statement.

Yes but we do not say unhappy endings are of low quality. We say that if they give us 6 bad endings they should give us at least ONE happy ending and happy endings do not have to be mushy sunshine and bunnies or Disney endings. Who said that anyway?

[the_one_54321]

Jackal7713 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
My point was more about the quote "BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game." If the crew and Sheppard are both stranded, isn't that a "lost" type of ending that leaves more questions then answers?

False. That doesn't need to be open ended at all. They could make it entirely clear what happens to them in the long run.

Could you elaborate please?

Images of graves, or corpses? A scene with an old man and a dog or kids? It's easy enough to provide further exposition.

jellobell wrote...
Except that in Mass Effect it doesn't have to be one or the other. They could give us a choice about whether we want a good, bad, or bittersweet ending and people would be satisfied. Just look at ME2's suicide mission; they could've done it like that. All this ending is is railroading.

But no one is complaining about the railroad. Everyone is complaining that the railroad leads to a sad place.

It's only after you explain that a sad place can also be a good place that they bring up the railroad.

And then, when you explain that the including that alternate "option" invalidates the sad options they start complaining about the railroad leading to a sad place again.

All I'm seeing is "I want what I want."

EJ107 wrote...
And Unhappy = quality, Happy = poor quality is just as false a statement. I'd consider what we've seen of ME3's endings to be poor quality in terms of variety, choice and writing.

Precisely! The quality of the ending is unrelated to whether or not it's happy or sad.

As for the writing, you can't know if it's good or not. You haven't experienced the game story in its entirety. No one here has. At least no one that's allowed to talk about it. All we have is some leaked plot points and the datamined endings. You can't say it's bad writing and know that what you say is correct.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 02 mars 2012 - 09:06 .

[Ianamus]

the_one_54321 wrote...

SilencedScream wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And he said "whether you're happy or angry." Kind of implies that you might be angry with the answers you get, doesn't it?

Fair enough.
"Let's make our customers upset. That'll surely get us more sales."

You can be angry at an ending and still feel it was absolutely beautiful...

For crying out loud. You'd think no one here ever witnessed any form of glorious artistic trajedy. Happy = quality AND unhappy = poor quality, is a false statement.

And Unhappy = quality, Happy = poor quality is just as false a statement. I'd consider what we've seen of ME3's endings to be poor quality in terms of variety, choice and writing.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

And we are deifinitely left with more questions than answers.

What happens to the crew?

Shepard?

The galaxy?

What are the repercussions of losing the relays, space travel, merging both the synthetics and organics?

They answered the end of the Reapers with way more questions. And considering they're not continuing the story that leaves us Lost.

[dw99027]

The real post-credits scene:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE 

More like this:

[albertalad]

xtorma wrote...

albertalad wrote...

xtorma
Are you for real? Hollywood ending if Sheppard and his crew lived? How about billions dead on earth? Billions more left to die throughout the Galaxy? Hundreds of thousands indoctrinated? Hundreds of thousands killed from other fleets and armies during this battle?

After everything Sheppard and his crew have done to try and save them - is it so much to ask that Sheppard and his crew make it in the end? Not in my world - heck I'd hate to see what YOU call a disaster!

It's the way i played my shepard, you play yours your way. that was the whole point of choice.

Not meaning to cause an argument - however, what choice or choices we have made during ME1 to 3 have any effect on the leaked endings? None that I've seen or even remotely aware of. BW took any possible choice I would have made out of my hands!

[Heathen Pride]

BobSmith101 wrote...

WeWant wrote...
Depending of what you did in the game, Earth is eigher ok or destroyed. That doesn't seem useless to me.

Outside of chapter 1 of ME3 I'd never been to Earth,I'd been to the moon and probed Uranus but not Earth. I probably feel more connected to the Citadel.

Right on bro. Looking at it from Shepards point of view, and being a human yourself you can understand his desire to save Earth for multiple reasons, but the fact is that as a player the attachment is to Shepard, his crew, and those he interacts with. Bioware's strong point has always been these interpersonal relationships with characters and making the player genuinely feel for them, like a good book or movie will.

[xtorma]

albertalad wrote...

xtorma wrote...

albertalad wrote...

xtorma
Are you for real? Hollywood ending if Sheppard and his crew lived? How about billions dead on earth? Billions more left to die throughout the Galaxy? Hundreds of thousands indoctrinated? Hundreds of thousands killed from other fleets and armies during this battle?

After everything Sheppard and his crew have done to try and save them - is it so much to ask that Sheppard and his crew make it in the end? Not in my world - heck I'd hate to see what YOU call a disaster!

It's the way i played my shepard, you play yours your way. that was the whole point of choice.

Not meaning to cause an argument - however, what choice or choices we have made during ME1 to 3 have any effect on the leaked endings? None that I've seen or even remotely aware of. BW took any possible choice I would have made out of my hands!

You didn't read my post. look at the italics

[Jackal7713]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
My point was more about the quote "BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game." If the crew and Sheppard are both stranded, isn't that a "lost" type of ending that leaves more questions then answers?

False. That doesn't need to be open ended at all. They could make it entirely clear what happens to them in the long run.

Could you elaborate please?

Images of graves, or corpses? A scene with an old man and a dog or kids? It's easy enough to provide further exposition.

jellobell wrote...
Except that in Mass Effect it doesn't have to be one or the other. They could give us a choice about whether we want a good, bad, or bittersweet ending and people would be satisfied. Just look at ME2's suicide mission; they could've done it like that. All this ending is is railroading.

But no one is complaining about the railroad. Everyone is complaining that the railroad leads to a sad place.

It's only after you explain that a sad place can also be a good place that they bring up the railroad.

And then, when you explain that the including that alternate "option" invalidates the sad options they start complaining about the railroad leading to a sad place again.

All I'm seeing is "I want what I want."

I can see where your coming from One. However, for others and myself, its about the lack of choices making a difference.

[albertalad]

Look if its the Reapers who must be wiped out at all cost then blow the earth relay and wipe out everything as in ME2. Or ram an asteroid of the size that wiped out the dinosaurs - end of Reapers. Earth is already devastated beyond any hope and was within the first fifteen minutes on the ME3 demo. Now give the Reapers weeks to a month while Sheppard is off organizing, fighting TIM, finding places for 13.5 million civilians from the citadel, 17 million civilians from the Quarain fleet, looking for lost weapons - that all takes time to travel between system and fight, and search - but that time what is left of earth to save? That is unless the Reapers didn't do a thing while Sheppard when off in the Galaxy. Thousands of Reaper would wipe out all cities on earth by the time Sheppard returned - that only common sense. Something BW seems to lack!

[the_one_54321]

Jackal7713 wrote...
I can see where your coming from One. However, for others and myself, its about the lack of choices making a difference.

And to this I will say what I've said elsewhere many times, both recently and long ago; there is no such thing as real choice in video games.

You may get to customize. You may get to choose between multiple paths. You may even get multiple endings. But in the end, any game that is billed on "choice" is just using marketing jargon to lie to you so that you'll buy their game.

It's not so horrible really. It's simply a matter of perception. In most cases, they don't even really hide the truth from you at all. They just surround it with certain loaded termonology to create a certain kind of image in your head that you feel is favorable. The big thing is that this whole "they denied me of choice, RAWR!!!!!" reaction is always entirely out of place, when it relates to the story of a game. You never really had any open choices to begin with. And you probably never will.

All that happened is that you finally viewed this lack of choice in a way that made it obvious to you.

[Aesieru]

xtorma wrote...

2.1 The reaper derelect pretty much died when it went into the brown dwarf, so they are not unkillable gods. If they were , they would not have done all the subterfuge with saren, or with the collectors. they would have simply arrived, . All they were interested in was humans, they could have isolated earth by shutting down that mass relay, killed all the other races and then mined earth for grey goo at thier leisure.

so sorry , I don't buy your explaination.

Actually, they can't just suddenly appear, it takes time, and they weren't all awake, it seems the destruction of Sovereign alerted Harbinger to the fact something went wrong, and since Sovereign couldn't activate the gateway to Dark Space, Harbinger used one of his previous things left over, assuming control over his collector-prothean abomination legions and investigating Humanity while also preparing for the Alpha Relay arrival. Since that failed, they decided to instead head straight in a path to Earth regarding the next closest relay.

Accumulated and in total, the Reaper fleets are monstrously powerful in themselves they are indeed god like. Also, while the derelict reaper was dead the innate organic indoctrination methods were not, nor were all the programs in it, more likely, the machine itself was merely critcally damaged and unable to repair itself with present materials.

Technology is actually a type of slavery in this game because it prevents others from developing along a path that may or may not be prepared for. Pretty much every alien race despite their alien-origins and thought patterns, has relegated themselves to using relay-based technology which appears superior but the Reapers have already mastered and know the counters for.

[xtorma]

Aesieru wrote...

xtorma wrote...

2.1 The reaper derelect pretty much died when it went into the brown dwarf, so they are not unkillable gods. If they were , they would not have done all the subterfuge with saren, or with the collectors. they would have simply arrived, . All they were interested in was humans, they could have isolated earth by shutting down that mass relay, killed all the other races and then mined earth for grey goo at thier leisure.

so sorry , I don't buy your explaination.

Actually, they can't just suddenly appear, it takes time, and they weren't all awake, it seems the destruction of Sovereign alerted Harbinger to the fact something went wrong, and since Sovereign couldn't activate the gateway to Dark Space, Harbinger used one of his previous things left over, assuming control over his collector-prothean abomination legions and investigating Humanity while also preparing for the Alpha Relay arrival. Since that failed, they decided to instead head straight in a path to Earth regarding the next closest relay.

Accumulated and in total, the Reaper fleets are monstrously powerful in themselves they are indeed god like. Also, while the derelict reaper was dead the innate organic indoctrination methods were not, nor were all the programs in it, more likely, the machine itself was merely critcally damaged and unable to repair itself with present materials.

Technology is actually a type of slavery in this game because it prevents others from developing along a path that may or may not be prepared for. Pretty much every alien race despite their alien-origins and thought patterns, has relegated themselves to using relay-based technology which appears superior but the Reapers have already mastered and know the counters for.

If they can not just appear...they are not gods. if they can die...they are not gods... if they cant shut down thier own technology, they are not gods. That was my point.

[WeWant]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
I can see where your coming from One. However, for others and myself, its about the lack of choices making a difference.

And to this I will say what I've said elsewhere many times, both recently and long ago; there is no such thing as real choice in video games.

You may get to customize. You may get to choose between multiple paths. You may even get multiple endings. But in the end, any game that is billed on "choice" is just using marketing jargon to lie to you so that you'll buy their game.

It's not so horrible really. It's simply a matter of perception. In most cases, they don't even really hide the truth from you at all. They just surround it with certain loaded termonology to create a certain kind of image in your head that you feel is favorable. The big thing is that this whole "they denied me of choice, RAWR!!!!!" reaction is always entirely out of place, when it relates to the story of a game. You never really had any open choices to begin with. And you probably never will.

All that happened is that you finally viewed this lack of choice in a way that made it obvious to you.

Alpha Protocol much?

I have to disagree with you in this one.
An entire chapter of TW2 depends of the choice you previously made. And it's not the only game that let you define some parts of your path.

Nobody is demanding the possibility to completely change the story. It's simply normal to demand that the decisions made through the game keep up to their promise.

[the_one_54321]

WeWant wrote...
Nobody is demanding the possibility to completely change the story. It's simply normal to demand that the decisions made through the game keep up to their promise.

Why? Who ever actually does that?
(that is when they promise so much choice, I mean)

[dw99027]

They promised you cholce and they gave you choice. Do not misinterpret 'choice' as 'consequence'.

[Varonine]

The "quality" of the endings is questionable. What everyone's mad about is that none of the endings are desirable (minority opinions excluded).

All endings basically boil down to "Hooray! We beat the reapers, but everything's destroyed beyond any repair."

Nobody wanted that (minority opinion excluded).

[SilencedScream]

I'm slightly off topic, but I'd like to point out something.

Bioware locked all of the "extra" ending threads because there was already a thread talking about endings. Why don't they lock this one as well?

Because it's the only one that expresses support of their ending.

Where's End of Line at? Where's Chris at?

I mean, the thread's basically been overwhelmed by people (myself included) who don't like the endings, so it isn't like anything beyond 3-4 posts at maximum are in their favor.

[XX55XX]

dw99027 wrote...

They promised you cholce and they gave you choice. Do not misinterpret 'choice' as 'consequence'.

Good one. I lol'd. That's going to be their primary defense. 

[XX55XX]

Varonine wrote...

The "quality" of the endings is questionable. What everyone's mad about is that none of the endings are desirable (minority opinions excluded).

All endings basically boil down to "Hooray! We beat the reapers, but everything's destroyed beyond any repair."

Nobody wanted that (minority opinion excluded).

Well, artist's license. 

[the_one_54321]

SilencedScream wrote...
I'm slightly off topic, but I'd like to point out something.

Bioware locked all of the "extra" ending threads because there was already a thread talking about endings. Why don't they lock this one as well?

Because it's the only one that expresses support of their ending.

Where's End of Line at? Where's Chris at?

I mean, the thread's basically been overwhelmed by people (myself included) who don't like the endings, so it isn't like anything beyond 3-4 posts at maximum are in their favor.

And the major voice of "support" is the guy that's not going to buy or play the game until EA ditches Origin!

(and I do mean that btw. still have not touched DAII over the changes they made from DA:O and don't even have a desire to anymore)

[scotkrow]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

And we are deifinitely left with more questions than answers.

What happens to the crew?

Shepard?

The galaxy?

What are the repercussions of losing the relays, space travel, merging both the synthetics and organics?

They answered the end of the Reapers with way more questions. And considering they're not continuing the story that leaves us Lost.

Except that it's just the end of Shepards story, another game can be released that takes place a couple hundred years later, a few relays rebuilt here and there, and FTL travel is still viable, it just takes a long time and a  lot of fuel.  This is the end of Shepard, as it should be, but not the end of the galaxy, not the end of the Mass Effect story, because while the first portion of the story follows Shepard, the next can follow any number of future heros or leaders centuries after Shepard is gone.