2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockpopple]

"Do you mind Shepard, I'm just in the middle of some CALIBRATIONS"

"Humans talk to much, LIKE THE TANK. Come back later"

"We've got a good thing going, let's not push it."

"Things are pretty busy Commander, MAYBE ANOTHER TIME?"

It's not as if there was an avalanche of conversation happening with your squad mates in ME2. You had about 3 different conversations with Jack before her Loyalty mission if you weren't romancing her. 3. In the ENTIRE GAME. Then one more for thankies and another one for sex if you were romancing her. That's 4 or 5 in total.

Is it too late to cancel my ME2 pre-order?

Modifié par Rockpopple, 02 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[MartinDN]

Lets just take a level headed look ok, this is there story as much as ours, more so infact, they laboured for 3 long years to put it out for us to finish our story - sure we buy it but still - what they want to do with dialogue is there choice no matter how much we hate it (and boy do i hate it)

Atleast wait till we have actually played it before starting a pitchfork riot. Its easy to play the blame game though and say its EA's fault, but we didnt like the mako...we got mineral scanning, we didnt like the mineral scanning...we got some stupid scan button with a reaper minigame. We wanted more choice and dialogue, to fill those choices in we got zero dialogue - we reap what we sow in the end.

Although i will add, that without the action mode/story mode i do believe dialogue would remain the same, but its impossible to tell. Im witholding judgement till ive played both renegade/paragon saves, im not trusting some random gameplay stream for 20 minutes.

Modifié par MartinDN, 02 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Rockpopple wrote...

"Do you mind Shepard, I'm just in the middle of some CALIBRATIONS"

"Humans talk to much, LIKE THE TANK. Come back later"

"We've got a good thing going, let's not push it."

"Things are pretty busy Commander, MAYBE ANOTHER TIME?"

It's not as if there was an avalanche of conversation happening with your squad mates in ME2. You had about 3 different conversations with Jack before her Loyalty mission if you weren't romancing her. 3. In the ENTIRE GAME. Then one more for thankies and another one for sex if you were romancing her. That's 4 or 5 in total.

Is it too late to cancel my ME2 pre-order?

Some characters didn't even have that many.

Garrus and Tali have very limited conversation:(

[Daywalker315]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Asking the guard where's his commanding officer was OK, actually.

But take the scene on the shuttle. That's a pure character development moment - Shepard's reflecting on the fall of Earth, worrying about probably Garrus - why the hell can't I choose my response there?  With the general, why do you need to say "that's going to complicate things" just before you choose dialogue?  Why not leave it up to you whether you're going to be that insensitive?

For the whole of that dialogue with the general, why can't you choose the tone - whether you're diplomatic and deferential to a superior officer or brusque and dismissive of an alien?  That ability to choose the manner Shepard has spoken has been part of the game from the beginning, and scrapping it makes it basically impossible for me to play the same character I have in previous games.

1. I'd like an example of what had been better. Because I think a simple "Yes" answers Liara's question just fine without having to go into specific details, since some might think their Shepard might not wnat to talk about that particular experience at that time. The shuttle ride is also rather short, so there's not much time to talk.

2. Why should Shepard change his tone when talking to this particular alien when conversations with other aliens went on like they're actual people and not...things? Speaking of which, what would changing Shepard's tone actually change when it comes to the narrative? You would still have to do the same thing and talking to the general in a different tone won't change that. Shepard as a certain pre-established character isn't diminished the second he/she isn't displaying that character at every opportunity available.

I think Bioware is prioritizing the flow of the narrative ahead of things like that, because the flow is more important. You get in there, you do what needs to be done to get to your objective and then leave. You do it fast too, since the Reapers might overwhelm the place at any moment and BioWare probably thinks it's better to get a move on instead of sitting there, deciding the tone of Shepard's dialogues.

Sure, it had been fun, but I don't think it's that important.

Well said. I agree with every bit of it. The flow of the narrative and the importance of getting in and out quickly dictates the tone and even the length of conversations during that mission IMO.

[Hunter of Legends]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Asking the guard where's his commanding officer was OK, actually.

But take the scene on the shuttle. That's a pure character development moment - Shepard's reflecting on the fall of Earth, worrying about probably Garrus - why the hell can't I choose my response there?  With the general, why do you need to say "that's going to complicate things" just before you choose dialogue?  Why not leave it up to you whether you're going to be that insensitive?

For the whole of that dialogue with the general, why can't you choose the tone - whether you're diplomatic and deferential to a superior officer or brusque and dismissive of an alien?  That ability to choose the manner Shepard has spoken has been part of the game from the beginning, and scrapping it makes it basically impossible for me to play the same character I have in previous games.

1. I'd like an example of what had been better. Because I think a simple "Yes" answers Liara's question just fine without having to go into specific details, since some might think their Shepard might not wnat to talk about that particular experience at that time. The shuttle ride is also rather short, so there's not much time to talk.

2. Why should Shepard change his tone when talking to this particular alien when conversations with other aliens went on like they're actual people and not...things? Speaking of which, what would changing Shepard's tone actually change when it comes to the narrative? You would still have to do the same thing and talking to the general in a different tone won't change that. Shepard as a certain pre-established character isn't diminished the second he/she isn't displaying that character at every opportunity available.

I think Bioware is prioritizing the flow of the narrative ahead of things like that, because the flow is more important. You get in there, you do what needs to be done to get to your objective and then leave. You do it fast too, since the Reapers might overwhelm the place at any moment and BioWare probably thinks it's better to get a move on instead of sitting there, deciding the tone of Shepard's dialogues.

Sure, it had been fun, but I don't think it's that important.

Well said. I agree with every bit of it. The flow of the narrative and the importance of getting in and out quickly dictates the tone and even the length of conversations during that mission IMO.

Yes but Dave of Canada does raise a valid point if this style of dialogue continues elsewhere where it isn't prudent.

[Dragoonlordz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Asking the guard where's his commanding officer was OK, actually.

But take the scene on the shuttle. That's a pure character development moment - Shepard's reflecting on the fall of Earth, worrying about probably Garrus - why the hell can't I choose my response there?  With the general, why do you need to say "that's going to complicate things" just before you choose dialogue?  Why not leave it up to you whether you're going to be that insensitive?

For the whole of that dialogue with the general, why can't you choose the tone - whether you're diplomatic and deferential to a superior officer or brusque and dismissive of an alien?  That ability to choose the manner Shepard has spoken has been part of the game from the beginning, and scrapping it makes it basically impossible for me to play the same character I have in previous games.

1. I'd like an example of what had been better. Because I think a simple "Yes" answers Liara's question just fine without having to go into specific details, since some might think their Shepard might not wnat to talk about that particular experience at that time. The shuttle ride is also rather short, so there's not much time to talk.

2. Why should Shepard change his tone when talking to this particular alien when conversations with other aliens went on like they're actual people and not...things? Speaking of which, what would changing Shepard's tone actually change when it comes to the narrative? You would still have to do the same thing and talking to the general in a different tone won't change that. Shepard as a certain pre-established character isn't diminished the second he/she isn't displaying that character at every opportunity available.

I think Bioware is prioritizing the flow of the narrative ahead of things like that, because the flow is more important. You get in there, you do what needs to be done to get to your objective and then leave. You do it fast too, since the Reapers might overwhelm the place at any moment and BioWare probably thinks it's better to get a move on instead of sitting there, deciding the tone of Shepard's dialogues.

Sure, it had been fun, but I don't think it's that important.

It is what the past two titles have allowed people to do, this is the third part of that trilogy and follows those two previous titles which allowed you to create a persona based on for almost all interactions giving the player the opportunity to select a manner of reaction at the start of most conversations instead of half way through or not at all. That feature and ability to use was part of what made them stand out from the crowd, it allowed people to greatly define who their Shepard was in the titles and spanned two titles. By removing or limiting it greatly in the last in the series is not the smartest move. Not if intention was to please the ones who spent hundreds of hours creating that persona in previous titles only to have it forced another direction in the last of the trilogy which limits the affect and reflection of that persona previously allowed to create.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 mars 2012 - 11:20 .

[Duncaaaaaan]

I have the biggest sh*t eating grin looking at this thread.

[Wulfram]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Sure, it had been fun, but I don't think it's that important.

Well, for me it's what I play the games for.  But now I need to go to bed.

[Daywalker315]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Asking the guard where's his commanding officer was OK, actually.

But take the scene on the shuttle. That's a pure character development moment - Shepard's reflecting on the fall of Earth, worrying about probably Garrus - why the hell can't I choose my response there?  With the general, why do you need to say "that's going to complicate things" just before you choose dialogue?  Why not leave it up to you whether you're going to be that insensitive?

For the whole of that dialogue with the general, why can't you choose the tone - whether you're diplomatic and deferential to a superior officer or brusque and dismissive of an alien?  That ability to choose the manner Shepard has spoken has been part of the game from the beginning, and scrapping it makes it basically impossible for me to play the same character I have in previous games.

1. I'd like an example of what had been better. Because I think a simple "Yes" answers Liara's question just fine without having to go into specific details, since some might think their Shepard might not wnat to talk about that particular experience at that time. The shuttle ride is also rather short, so there's not much time to talk.

2. Why should Shepard change his tone when talking to this particular alien when conversations with other aliens went on like they're actual people and not...things? Speaking of which, what would changing Shepard's tone actually change when it comes to the narrative? You would still have to do the same thing and talking to the general in a different tone won't change that. Shepard as a certain pre-established character isn't diminished the second he/she isn't displaying that character at every opportunity available.

I think Bioware is prioritizing the flow of the narrative ahead of things like that, because the flow is more important. You get in there, you do what needs to be done to get to your objective and then leave. You do it fast too, since the Reapers might overwhelm the place at any moment and BioWare probably thinks it's better to get a move on instead of sitting there, deciding the tone of Shepard's dialogues.

Sure, it had been fun, but I don't think it's that important.

Well said. I agree with every bit of it. The flow of the narrative and the importance of getting in and out quickly dictates the tone and even the length of conversations during that mission IMO.

Yes but Dave of Canada does raise a valid point if this style of dialogue continues elsewhere where it isn't prudent.

Perhaps, but I still won't be angry if I don't have to choose "Yes" to a dialogue option (unless "No" is a viable one as well) or if I don't have 3 ways to say "Go ahead, Joker" when he calls down from the ship. SOME streamlining isn't such a bad thing.

[Rockpopple]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

"Do you mind Shepard, I'm just in the middle of some CALIBRATIONS"

"Humans talk to much, LIKE THE TANK. Come back later"

"We've got a good thing going, let's not push it."

"Things are pretty busy Commander, MAYBE ANOTHER TIME?"

It's not as if there was an avalanche of conversation happening with your squad mates in ME2. You had about 3 different conversations with Jack before her Loyalty mission if you weren't romancing her. 3. In the ENTIRE GAME. Then one more for thankies and another one for sex if you were romancing her. That's 4 or 5 in total.

Is it too late to cancel my ME2 pre-order?

Some characters didn't even have that many.

Garrus and Tali have very limited conversation:(

I'm replaying ME2 now so I can tell you you're exactly right. Garrus has 2 conversations with him pre-loyalty mission, then a final one for thankies and another for sex if you're romancing him. That's 3-4 in total. Let me remind everyone that Garrus is one of the FIRST squadmates you can get on your team.

Seriously, I wonder if people doing the hand-wringing about ME3 have even played Mass Effect before.

[AndrewRogue]

So do I.

[evenstars]

gearseffect wrote...

People can we keep things civil here PLEASE?! I don't want to see this thread become a warzone and get locked!

Yes being able to chose what you say has been a big part of ME since the get go. It's don't matter if it comes out the same no matter what you chose, but being able to chose what you say adds more and helps ME feel like I chose it and I told them them that. I"m Shepard, I DID IT.

By taking this away or limiting this it distances many from being THEIR Shepard. I would have preferred ONLY one game mode, like ME1 and ME2. Both were great games and playing both I felt I was right in there I WAS Shepard.

when I played the ME3 demo I didn't feel as if I WAS Shepard, I felt like I was playing just another standard game, and was watching a normal Halo/Gears of War Cut scene, and was interupted to chose top or bottom dialogue option, and the way it was done had no depth to it and it only distanced me from BEING right there in the moment.

That is not the ME I love.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

[wright1978]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is what the past two titles have allowed people to do, this is the third part of that trilogy and follows those two previous titles which allowed you to create a persona based on for almost all interactions giving the player the opportunity to select a manner of reaction at the start of most interactions instead of half way through or not at all. That feature and ability to use was part of what made them stand out from the crowd, it alowed people to greatly define who their Shepard was in the titles and spanned two titles. By removing or limiting it greatly in the last in the series is not the smartest move. Not if intention was to please the ones who spent hundreds of hours creating that persona in previous titles only to have it forced another direction in the last of the trilogy which limits the affect and reflection of that persona previously allowed to create.

Exactly.

[Wulfram]

Rockpopple wrote...

I'm replaying ME2 now so I can tell you you're exactly right. Garrus has 2 conversations with him pre-loyalty mission, then a final one for thankies and another for sex if you're romancing him. That's 3-4 in total. Let me remind everyone that Garrus is one of the FIRST squadmates you can get on your team.

Yes, and didn't that suck?

(Really going to bed now.  Maybe Bioware will wave a magic wand and make it better by morning)

[Hunter of Legends]

Rockpopple wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

"Do you mind Shepard, I'm just in the middle of some CALIBRATIONS"

"Humans talk to much, LIKE THE TANK. Come back later"

"We've got a good thing going, let's not push it."

"Things are pretty busy Commander, MAYBE ANOTHER TIME?"

It's not as if there was an avalanche of conversation happening with your squad mates in ME2. You had about 3 different conversations with Jack before her Loyalty mission if you weren't romancing her. 3. In the ENTIRE GAME. Then one more for thankies and another one for sex if you were romancing her. That's 4 or 5 in total.

Is it too late to cancel my ME2 pre-order?

Some characters didn't even have that many.

Garrus and Tali have very limited conversation:(

I'm replaying ME2 now so I can tell you you're exactly right. Garrus has 2 conversations with him pre-loyalty mission, then a final one for thankies and another for sex if you're romancing him. That's 3-4 in total. Let me remind everyone that Garrus is one of the FIRST squadmates you can get on your team.

Seriously, I wonder if people doing the hand-wringing about ME3 have even played Mass Effect before.

They have, unfortunately many are too quick to demonize what they have already deemed evil without much validity.

[RainyDayLover]

Rob_K1 wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Except the guy who played the game said they only had one conversation with Ashley onboard the Normandy. (FemShep)

He also said he had two with her elsewhere, when she's not in your squad. Being deliberately vague here, though I'm sure most people know why she wouldn't be in your squad for a while. (He didn't romance her either to my knowledge)

From what I can make out as well from that video, it seems we get a lot more dialog from the characters outside of dialog on the Normanday. I.e. they have more input during missions and on the way to them.

Wait, are you guys forgetting that you can only get new dialogue out of characters only once between every mission? This was the case in ME1 and ME2 for every character. You'd ask for their thoughts on the mission (only in ME1) and then you would talk about personal matters to advance your relationship between that character. After that, they have nothing more to say.

So Ashley having nothing more to say after only talking to her once is nothing new. The only difference is that you don't actually go into the conversation when you try to talk to her again.

It's better and less awkward this way...

Pretty much. There was some debate on whether the amount of times you can talk to them on the ship and such is enough though.

And those two talks outside of the Normandy are supposed to be full conversations I believe. In addition to what I mentioned about it seeming like they have more input on missions and such, I believe you can talk to them on the Citadel as well, thanks to that Citadel tour video.

(If you watch the Citadel tour video, I believe that Shepard can talk to James Vega in one of the clubs.)

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?

[Hunter of Legends]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Except the guy who played the game said they only had one conversation with Ashley onboard the Normandy. (FemShep)

He also said he had two with her elsewhere, when she's not in your squad. Being deliberately vague here, though I'm sure most people know why she wouldn't be in your squad for a while. (He didn't romance her either to my knowledge)

From what I can make out as well from that video, it seems we get a lot more dialog from the characters outside of dialog on the Normanday. I.e. they have more input during missions and on the way to them.

Wait, are you guys forgetting that you can only get new dialogue out of characters only once between every mission? This was the case in ME1 and ME2 for every character. You'd ask for their thoughts on the mission (only in ME1) and then you would talk about personal matters to advance your relationship between that character. After that, they have nothing more to say.

So Ashley having nothing more to say after only talking to her once is nothing new. The only difference is that you don't actually go into the conversation when you try to talk to her again.

It's better and less awkward this way...

Pretty much. There was some debate on whether the amount of times you can talk to them on the ship and such is enough though.

And those two talks outside of the Normandy are supposed to be full conversations I believe. In addition to what I mentioned about it seeming like they have more input on missions and such, I believe you can talk to them on the Citadel as well, thanks to that Citadel tour video.

(If you watch the Citadel tour video, I believe that Shepard can talk to James Vega in one of the clubs.)

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?

Characters in ME1 didn't have as much to say either.

After investigating everything Tali had nothing more to say about herself or any real character development and neither did the VS.

Liara was pretty one dimensional too.

[Cobra Salad]

Just saw this interview with Mac Walters that might shed some light. Heres a snippet:

"What are some other games whose writing you admire? Are there any other types of stories you’d like to pursue after Mass Effect 3 is finished?

I’ll be honest, right now I have a stack of games that’s up to my knee that I haven’t played because I’ve been so busy with Mass Effect 3. So I’m excited to see what other people have been doing while I’ve been making a game. But I do know that between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the things I looked at was—I don’t know if I’d call it the writing, but the cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look at that and say, “Wow, those are some very compelling people.” I’m happy to sit there and watch what’s going on in that scene—I don’t even need interactivity in that scene because it’s so well done. And that was part of the game that I really wanted to strive for in Mass Effect 3 as well. And so I’m looking forward to playing a lot of other games as well. I’ve seen a bit of other ones out there—things like L.A. Noire, they had some interesting ideas of what they were doing for things like facial capture. Who knows where that could go."

Fyi I'm not really against more auto dialogue as long as the writing is top notch and the dialogue choices that you do get to make have more weight to them.

Oh, and here's the whole interview:

http://blogs.wsj.com...oogle_news_blog

[RainyDayLover]

Rockpopple wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

"Do you mind Shepard, I'm just in the middle of some CALIBRATIONS"

"Humans talk to much, LIKE THE TANK. Come back later"

"We've got a good thing going, let's not push it."

"Things are pretty busy Commander, MAYBE ANOTHER TIME?"

It's not as if there was an avalanche of conversation happening with your squad mates in ME2. You had about 3 different conversations with Jack before her Loyalty mission if you weren't romancing her. 3. In the ENTIRE GAME. Then one more for thankies and another one for sex if you were romancing her. That's 4 or 5 in total.

Is it too late to cancel my ME2 pre-order?

Some characters didn't even have that many.

Garrus and Tali have very limited conversation:(

I'm replaying ME2 now so I can tell you you're exactly right. Garrus has 2 conversations with him pre-loyalty mission, then a final one for thankies and another for sex if you're romancing him. That's 3-4 in total. Let me remind everyone that Garrus is one of the FIRST squadmates you can get on your team.

Seriously, I wonder if people doing the hand-wringing about ME3 have even played Mass Effect before.

And not to mention the conversations with Garrus and Wrex in ME1 were an absolute joke. 99% of the time, whenever you picked the top/bottom or left/right option, Shepard would say the exact same thing. Just realized this on my last playthrough....ridiculous, really.

[Dave of Canada]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?

The guy finished the game two times and is replaying a third.

[Atakuma]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is what the past two titles have allowed people to do, this is the third part of that trilogy and follows those two previous titles which allowed you to create a persona based on for almost all interactions giving the player the opportunity to select a manner of reaction at the start of most conversations instead of half way through or not at all. That feature and ability to use was part of what made them stand out from the crowd, it allowed people to greatly define who their Shepard was in the titles and spanned two titles. By removing or limiting it greatly in the last in the series is not the smartest move. Not if intention was to please the ones who spent hundreds of hours creating that persona in previous titles only to have it forced another direction in the last of the trilogy which limits the affect and reflection of that persona previously allowed to create.

You put this much better then I ever could. It feels Im in a race and at the final lap bioware kicks me out of the driver's seat and finishes it for me.

[Alraiis]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

I have the biggest sh*t eating grin looking at this thread.

This statement suggests disturbing things about your diet.

[Hunter of Legends]

Dave of Canada wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?

The guy finished the game two times and is replaying a third.

Really now?

Does he sleep?

[Justicar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The guy finished the game two times and is replaying a third.

It's somewhat settling that there is a small implication he enjoyed the game so much he went back for more.

...

Isn't there? 

[wright1978]

Cobra Salad wrote...

Just saw this interview with Mac Walters that might shed some light. Heres a snippet:

"What are some other games whose writing you admire? Are there any other types of stories you’d like to pursue after Mass Effect 3 is finished?

I’ll be honest, right now I have a stack of games that’s up to my knee that I haven’t played because I’ve been so busy with Mass Effect 3. So I’m excited to see what other people have been doing while I’ve been making a game. But I do know that between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the things I looked at was—I don’t know if I’d call it the writing, but the cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look at that and say, “Wow, those are some very compelling people.” I’m happy to sit there and watch what’s going on in that scene—I don’t even need interactivity in that scene because it’s so well done. And that was part of the game that I really wanted to strive for in Mass Effect 3 as well. And so I’m looking forward to playing a lot of other games as well. I’ve seen a bit of other ones out there—things like L.A. Noire, they had some interesting ideas of what they were doing for things like facial capture. Who knows where that could go."

Fyi I'm not really against more auto dialogue as long as the writing is top notch and the dialogue choices that you do get to make have more weight to them.

Oh, and here's the whole interview:

http://blogs.wsj.com...oogle_news_blog

Interesting because for ages all i've heard from Casey was how we still had control over Shep. It makes me so annoyed that it seems they have stripped what i consider to be the quintessential thing that made the previous 2 mass effects great.