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Awful lot of auto dialogue in the full game...


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#351
RainyDayLover

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Dave of Canada wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?


The guy finished the game two times and is replaying a third.


Well, my case still stands. Instead of going into the conversation every single time (after getting all the new dialogue between missons) only to have them say "Can it wait for a bit.." or "I should back to work...", we get Zaeed 2.0.

Modifié par RainyDayLover, 02 mars 2012 - 11:30 .


#352
N7Raider

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Dave of Canada wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?


The guy finished the game two times and is replaying a third.

1. self defeating statement
2. you're convientley leaving out some facts

#353
SyyRaaaN

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Way to little showed to tell tbh. These could have been streamlined as well without taking away from the game.I think ME3 doesn't need as much dialog as ME1 and ME2 as it is the conclusion. Still you need to be able to follow through the path you chose for your character the way you want it, but this game isn't what is going to define your character, thats what you do in ME1 and ME2. Now you reap what you sowed.

#354
Atakuma

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Mac Walters is quite frankly an awful writer. I can't wrap my head around how he became the lead.

#355
evenstars

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Cobra Salad wrote...

Just saw this interview with Mac Walters that might shed some light. Heres a snippet:

"What are some other games whose writing you admire? Are there any other types of stories you’d like to pursue after Mass Effect 3 is finished?

I’ll be honest, right now I have a stack of games that’s up to my knee that I haven’t played because I’ve been so busy with Mass Effect 3. So I’m excited to see what other people have been doing while I’ve been making a game. But I do know that between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the things I looked at was—I don’t know if I’d call it the writing, but the cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look at that and say, “Wow, those are some very compelling people.” I’m happy to sit there and watch what’s going on in that scene—I don’t even need interactivity in that scene because it’s so well done. And that was part of the game that I really wanted to strive for in Mass Effect 3 as well. And so I’m looking forward to playing a lot of other games as well. I’ve seen a bit of other ones out there—things like L.A. Noire, they had some interesting ideas of what they were doing for things like facial capture. Who knows where that could go."

Fyi I'm not really against more auto dialogue as long as the writing is top notch and the dialogue choices that you do get to make have more weight to them.

Oh, and here's the whole interview:

http://blogs.wsj.com...oogle_news_blog


That's rather disappointing to me.  I mean, I like Uncharted a lot but I don't want Me3 to try to be Uncharted.  I want them to finish shep's trilogy in the same general way as the first 2 games.  If they want to change how they tell the story after that, that's fine since I won't already have a character with 2 games  worth of personality and decisions in it.  Besides, the choices and character interaction are what make their games different from other story based games - it's why I buy their games.

Modifié par evenstars, 02 mars 2012 - 11:36 .


#356
Rockpopple

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Wulfram wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

I'm replaying ME2 now so I can tell you you're exactly right. Garrus has 2 conversations with him pre-loyalty mission, then a final one for thankies and another for sex if you're romancing him. That's 3-4 in total. Let me remind everyone that Garrus is one of the FIRST squadmates you can get on your team.


Yes, and didn't that suck?

(Really going to bed now.  Maybe Bioware will wave a magic wand and make it better by morning)


Did it suck a little bit that I didn't have more convos with my squaddies during the game? Yes. Did the ending of Mass Effect 2 make me cry with emotions? Yes. Because it kicked ass. The whole ride. 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

#357
LiquidLogic2020

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I can't find anything about this stream on google, can someone post a link?

#358
Duncaaaaaan

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Alraiis wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

I have the biggest sh*t eating grin looking at this thread.


This statement suggests disturbing things about your diet.


You haven't heard of a "**** eating grin" before?

It just means a really wide and shameless grin.

#359
Duncaaaaaan

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Atakuma wrote...

Mac Walters is quite frankly an awful writer. I can't wrap my head around how he became the lead.


Thank you! I thought I was the only one with this opinion, and I was too scared to say it here.

#360
Dragoonlordz

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Atakuma wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is what the past two titles have allowed people to do, this is the third part of that trilogy and follows those two previous titles which allowed you to create a persona based on for almost all interactions giving the player the opportunity to select a manner of reaction at the start of most conversations instead of half way through or not at all. That feature and ability to use was part of what made them stand out from the crowd, it allowed people to greatly define who their Shepard was in the titles and spanned two titles. By removing or limiting it greatly in the last in the series is not the smartest move. Not if intention was to please the ones who spent hundreds of hours creating that persona in previous titles only to have it forced another direction in the last of the trilogy which limits the affect and reflection of that persona previously allowed to create.

You put this much better then I ever could. It feels Im in a race and at the final lap bioware kicks me out of the driver's seat and finishes it for me.


After reading what Mac Walters said posted above, trying to emulate Uncharted 2 in the way it handled interactions... I guess I just feel like what it is they are trying to achieve (which they are fully within their right to do with their product), just is getting further away from what I loved about their previous titles. I am just disappointed that some of the elements that made them special and stand out of the crowd (for me) personally, is being replaced by preferences of what others might enjoy. I am glad for those others I just feel bad that it is worse for me the more they head in their direction.

I will state that I have every intention of giving ME3 a good try and hoping for the best, I hope other elements remain intact enough for me to greatly enjoy other aspects of the game and the entire game overall. But the loss of elements that brought me into Biowares products just seem to be getting further and further away as they try to emulate genres and other titles that personally I might not enjoy or wish to purchase from the offset. As said it is their right to do so and I am glad for others who enjoy what I do not but just feels like a shame that more titles are catering to others preferences and very little to my own. Such is life I guess.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 mars 2012 - 11:33 .


#361
Hunter of Legends

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Atakuma wrote...

Mac Walters is quite frankly an awful writer. I can't wrap my head around how he became the lead.


There are far worse out there.

Not many much better either.

#362
SyyRaaaN

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evenstars wrote...

Cobra Salad wrote...

Just saw this interview with Mac Walters that might shed some light. Heres a snippet:

"What are some other games whose writing you admire? Are there any other types of stories you’d like to pursue after Mass Effect 3 is finished?

I’ll be honest, right now I have a stack of games that’s up to my knee that I haven’t played because I’ve been so busy with Mass Effect 3. So I’m excited to see what other people have been doing while I’ve been making a game. But I do know that between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the things I looked at was—I don’t know if I’d call it the writing, but the cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look at that and say, “Wow, those are some very compelling people.” I’m happy to sit there and watch what’s going on in that scene—I don’t even need interactivity in that scene because it’s so well done. And that was part of the game that I really wanted to strive for in Mass Effect 3 as well. And so I’m looking forward to playing a lot of other games as well. I’ve seen a bit of other ones out there—things like L.A. Noire, they had some interesting ideas of what they were doing for things like facial capture. Who knows where that could go."

Fyi I'm not really against more auto dialogue as long as the writing is top notch and the dialogue choices that you do get to make have more weight to them.

Oh, and here's the whole interview:

http://blogs.wsj.com...oogle_news_blog


That's rather disappointing to me.  I mean, I like Uncharted a lot but I don't want Me3 to try to be Uncharted.  I want them to finish shep's trilogy in the same general way as the first 2 games.  If they want to change how they tell the story after that, that's fine since I won't already have a character with 2 games  worth of personality and decisions in it.  Besides, the choices and character interaction are what make their games different from other games with a decent story - it's why I buy their games.



Wow. That quoute is diarrhea. 100 % straight BS. What makes ME1 and ME2 great wasnt a streamline of BS dialog, but the choises I made. That guy of all should know that. Can't believe this mindblowing BS. Rofl.

#363
Justicar

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I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.

#364
N00blet666

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Damn this thread really took off. I asked somebody who has played through the game and they said there is not a lot of auto dialogue. I don't know how reliable this is but, I'm going with this. I'll see what happens on tuesday.

#365
Hunter of Legends

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Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.


He isn't.

#366
N00blet666

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Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.

I've got no issue with Mac. He wrote ME2, I loved ME2, good enough for me.

#367
Rob_K1

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Hunter of Legends wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Except the guy who played the game said they only had one conversation with Ashley onboard the Normandy. (FemShep)


He also said he had two with her elsewhere, when she's not in your squad. Being deliberately vague here, though I'm sure most people know why she wouldn't be in your squad for a while. (He didn't romance her either to my knowledge)

From what I can make out as well from that video, it seems we get a lot more dialog from the characters outside of dialog on the Normanday. I.e. they have more input during missions and on the way to them.


Wait, are you guys forgetting that you can only get new dialogue out of characters only once between every mission? This was the case in ME1 and ME2 for every character. You'd ask for their thoughts on the mission (only in ME1) and then you would talk about personal matters to advance your relationship between that character. After that, they have nothing more to say.

So Ashley having nothing more to say after only talking to her once is nothing new. The only difference is that you don't actually go into the conversation when you try to talk to her again.

It's better and less awkward this way...



Pretty much. There was some debate on whether the amount of times you can talk to them on the ship and such is enough though.

And those two talks outside of the Normandy are supposed to be full conversations I believe. In addition to what I mentioned about it seeming like they have more input on missions and such, I believe you can talk to them on the Citadel as well, thanks to that Citadel tour video.

(If you watch the Citadel tour video, I believe that Shepard can talk to James Vega in one of the clubs.)


Oh, and I just remembered that after Eden Prime if you talked to Kaidan/Ashley after having already talked to them, they do go into Kasumi/Zaeed mode. It was fairly early in the game, so this could also be a one-time, too?


Characters in ME1 didn't have as much to say either.

After investigating everything Tali had nothing more to say about herself or any real character development and neither did the VS.

Liara was pretty one dimensional too.


This'll be my last quote, or at least full one, as it's becoming a wall of text. However, I think the new system could work well, when combined with party members chatting on the Citadel and chipping in on missions and prior to them.

And to be honest, this is probably going to open up a can of worms here and get me flamed, but I'm currently playing through ME 2 now to get a save file ready:

We might get to choose what's said more, but Shepard always gives a one - two line response for the most part. It's like, if I investigate something, he'll just say a five word sentence. I feel the new system will give more opportunity to actually flesh out his character and show how things are weighing on him, especially if the dialog changes based on if he has more paragon or renegade points. I do realise it is more ideal to have the option to say how your Shepard feels though (this is if he does talk about he feels without prompting you).

At the end of the day as well, even though we get to choose responses and his pre-service background, he is still BioWare's character and they write the options for us. I just feel it'll give him more of a personality, though granted, the point of roleplaying is that we give him the personality ourselves. That won't always work if the dialog responses are short and come up as canned 'What is Cerberus?' responses though.

And this is coming from someone that has games on www.gog.com and also has the Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Icewind Dale games (and by that, I mean I own the discs, not a digital copy). Plus others. 

Modifié par Rob_K1, 02 mars 2012 - 11:38 .


#368
Dave of Canada

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Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.


He writes good characters (ME1 Garrus, ME1 Wrex, ME2 TIM) but does horrible with plots and leaves plotholes everywhere.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 mars 2012 - 11:36 .


#369
Hillbillyhat

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N00blet666 wrote...

Damn this thread really took off. I asked somebody who has played through the game and they said there is not a lot of auto dialogue. I don't know how reliable this is but, I'm going with this. I'll see what happens on tuesday.

Well another poster is claiming that he or she has been hearing the opposite. This is why I don't get why people are so quick to believe this before the game is coming out. Play it then complain afterwards.

#370
Hunter of Legends

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.


He writes good characters (ME1 Garrus, ME1 Wrex, TIM) but does horrible with plots and leaves plotholes in some places.


More or less.

All in all not really a bad writer; he simply has strengths and weaknesses.

Modifié par Hunter of Legends, 02 mars 2012 - 11:36 .


#371
Alraiis

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Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Alraiis wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

I have the biggest sh*t eating grin looking at this thread.


This statement suggests disturbing things about your diet.


You haven't heard of a "**** eating grin" before?

It just means a really wide and shameless grin.


Cliches become colorless and bland with overuse. I am inviting you to reconsider the origins of that idiom and the image it evokes. About you.

#372
Justicar

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.


He writes good characters (ME1 Garrus, ME1 Wrex, ME2 TIM) but does horrible with plots and leaves plotholes everywhere.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

#373
Atakuma

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Justicar wrote...

I'd like to hear why Mac Walters is bad.

I'm serious! I'm not too educated on these things and I really want to hear why.

The Invasion comic he wrote was terrible and the overall plot of ME2 was extremely weak in my opinion.

#374
AndrewRogue

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Dave: Out of curiosity, was he involved in any of the older titles as well? Because honestly, I consider "Good Characters, Mediocre Plot" to be the basic definition of a Bioware game.

#375
DarthCaine

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Dave of Canada wrote...

ME1 Wrex

Wannabe Canderous Ordo