2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockpopple]

@BentOrgy - if you're playing the Mass Effect games with a constant running tally of how many lines are determined by you and how many aren't, you're doing it wrong. Honestly, until people brought it up, I didn't even notice that there was more auto-dialog in the ME3 demo. It's all about how it's perceived by the player.

Not every single line Shep said in ME2 contributed to the Paragon or Renegade score. Some were just throw away lines to show how badass or cuddly Shepard was. All I'm saying is that system is still there, they just don't tag it on to every. single. line Shepard says. They've slightly changed the way the story is presented. PANIC!

As for lumping "everyone" on BSN together, I don't do that. If you see yourself in a group I characterized, that's really on you, not on me. I think you've voiced your opinions with tact, that's great. Not everyone has.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 03 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Ghost-621]

Rockpopple wrote...

@BentOrgy - if you're playing the Mass Effect games with a constant running tally of how many lines are determined by you and how many aren't, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly, until people brought it up, I didn't even notice that there was more auto-dialog in the ME3 demo. It's all about how it's perceived by the player.

Not every single line Shep said in ME2 contributed to the Paragon or Renegade score. Some were just throw away garbage lines to show how badass or cuddly Shepard was. All I'm saying is that system is still there, they just don't tag it on to every. single. line Shepard says. They've slightly changed the way the story is presented. PANIC!

As for lumping "everyone" on BSN together, I don't do that. If you see yourself in a group I characterized, that's really on you, not on me. If you think you've voiced your opinions with tact, that's great. Not everyone has.

It wasn't a slight change at all. Bioware, from what was shown on the demos, has stripped and dumbed down a gameplay element that made Mass Effect, well, Mass Effect. That is in no way, shape, or form, a "slight" change.

By the way, work on your arguments. It's full of exaggerations and empty remarks.

[BentOrgy]

Rockpopple wrote...

@BentOrgy - if you're playing the Mass Effect games with a constant running tally of how many lines are determined by you and how many aren't, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly, until people brought it up, I didn't even notice that there was more auto-dialog in the ME3 demo. It's all about how it's perceived by the player.

Not every single line Shep said in ME2 contributed to the Paragon or Renegade score. Some were just throw away garbage lines to show how badass or cuddly Shepard was. All I'm saying is that system is still there, they just don't tag it on to every. single. line Shepard says. They've slightly changed the way the story is presented. PANIC!

As for lumping "everyone" on BSN together, I don't do that. If you see yourself in a group I characterized, that's really on you, not on me. If you think you've voiced your opinions with tact, that's great. Not everyone has.

"Doing it wrong?" Says who? You? Subjective.

You might not have, but I thinks its staggeringly obvious that others have noticed, or have you missed the dozens of similar threads like this one? When this amount of your audience rails against something, you've failed. Those numbers do not lie, and you can't dismiss all of the players who side with me and other's like me.

Those "Garbage lines," are what we want back. That's basically the whole point of my/our posts. I never debated if the Paragon/Renegade system was still intact, it obviously is; the problem is all of the non-aligned dialogue, or in this case, a severe lack thereof. So yes, PANIC, but not for the reason you gave.

And you said "BSN," which includes everyone. That's on you, not me.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 03 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Rockpopple]

Ghost-621 wrote...

It wasn't a slight change at all. Bioware, from what was shown on the demos, has stripped and dumbed down a gameplay element that made Mass Effect, well, Mass Effect. That is in no way, shape, or form, a "slight" change.

By the way, work on your arguments. It's full of exaggerations and empty remarks.

Did you seriously just tell me to work on my arguements by saying they were full of exaggerations and empty remarks?

...

I'll give you a moment to recognize the irony of your statement.

They haven't stripped or dumbed down anything, conversation-wise. And what - what does that even mean: "dumb down"? Did they put less words in ME3 because they wanted to appeal to dumb illterate CoD players that don't do much readin'? Come on.

[Almostfaceman]

It's interesting how this has been titled about one thing - a lot of auto dialogue in the Gamespot stream - and it's changed to people who seem to be able to see into the future and suddenly know how ME3 will turn out. As for people who have actually played the game, I've heard opposing opinions on this matter, so it's definitely not as cut-and-dried as some would like to paint it.

For you oracles out there, could you please give me next week's lotto numbers?

I'm waiting to play the game to decide how much I like it, what a concept. 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 03 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Rockpopple]

BentOrgy wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

@BentOrgy - if you're playing the Mass Effect games with a constant running tally of how many lines are determined by you and how many aren't, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly, until people brought it up, I didn't even notice that there was more auto-dialog in the ME3 demo. It's all about how it's perceived by the player.

Not every single line Shep said in ME2 contributed to the Paragon or Renegade score. Some were just throw away garbage lines to show how badass or cuddly Shepard was. All I'm saying is that system is still there, they just don't tag it on to every. single. line Shepard says. They've slightly changed the way the story is presented. PANIC!

As for lumping "everyone" on BSN together, I don't do that. If you see yourself in a group I characterized, that's really on you, not on me. If you think you've voiced your opinions with tact, that's great. Not everyone has.

"Doing it wrong?" Says who? You? Subjective.

You might not have, but I thinks its staggeringly obvious that others have noticed, or have you missed the dozens of similar threads like this one? When this amount of your audience rails against something, you've failed. Those numbers do not lie, and you can't dismiss all of the players who side with me and other's like me.

Those "Garbage lines," are what we want back. That's basically the whole point of my/our posts. I never debated if the Paragon/Renegade system was still intact, it obviously is; the problem is all of the non-aligned dialogue, or in this case, a severe lack thereof. So yes, PANIC, but not for the reason you gave.

And you said "BSN," which includes everyone. That's on you, not me.

Dude, I said BSN. That would presumably mean me as well, right? The Mods? Think about it.

"dozens" of similar threads? How many pages should I go back to find them? This is the only one on the front page. As for people noticing it, I'm not surprised. People notice a lot of stuff. People should notice lots of stuff. It's how people react to them that's important. Case in point: people noticed that in the last part of the earth demo, Anderson had zombie hands. It's good that the picked up on that. What they didn't pick up on was that his hands were dirty, because he was caught in an explosion. His hands were clean before. People mocked the game for days about that before figuring it out.

"Those garbage lines are what we want back"? a) I thought you didn't like it when everyone was lumped together. Who is "We"?

I regret saying "garbage lines", which is why I edited that. But, they were throw away lines. 

Look, obviously you think there's a severe lack of options now and you're.... concerned. Others, including myself, aren't that much. We're gonna pecieve how we're gonna perceive, and neither of us are gonna change the other's opinion.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 03 mars 2012 - 02:13 .

[RSX Titan]

BentOrgy wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

That is simply not true. Shepard was always Biowares character. Go back and read the dev notes form ME1. They wanted to tell a story with Shepard and allow the players to make certain choices along the way but in the end Shepard was never intended to be a blank slate. You just wanted the character to be something he's not.

No offense, but that's simply a matter of opinion. From Ray Muzyka to Casey Hudson, ever since ME1 they've preached about how they were "Our," choices, and that "We," drove the story with them, not to mention the numerous times that they've mentioned that one of the beauties of having all of these choices for us was that "We," got to impress our reasons on them.

Tazzed a Batarian? Why? Its up to the player. Kept the rachni Queen alive? Why? Up to the player.

Shepard's entire story, and the reasons why it turns out the way it does, are reflections of the player.

I never "Wanted," anything I wasn't already promised; which was my own story. I'd love to see these "Dev notes," if you have them. Bioware may or may not have "Intended," anything, but the results, and the fans, speak for themselves.

The illusion of choice and the "player's" Shepard permeates throughout the entire series. We play as Shepard, elite Human warrior, vocied by one of two actors, along a very defined path. I assume you know that some of the larger choices made in both games don't matter at all ME3. Tazzed a Batarian. Does it matter either way? Destroy/Keep the rachi Queen? (Don't get me started on the impact, or lack thereof, of that decision). Too many people wanted ME to be a true RPG where you define every aspect if your character. That was never the type of game Bioware wanted to make. 

[Dragoonlordz]

N00blet666 wrote...

Well I'm glad so many of you are posting in here because it illustrates just how much fans are concerned about the dialogue options and how important they are to us.

I regret that I did not make my points, stance or arguments earlier, I spent so much time trying to critique Dragon Age 2 and where I thought it fell short and where needed improving that in the end I did not pay much heed to the goings on with Mass Effect 3 at that point. I guess during that time I contributed not enough to the discussions about where ME3 was headed so by the time I got around to noticing all the changes going on that I disagreed with, my voice had no impact as it was too late (even if listened to me in first place which it would seem to probably not have been the case).

All I can do now is leave feedback for the product both in what I have seen so far and what I will experience in the retail game once I have it. But it is becomming more apparent I am not the gamer they wish to entice into buying more of the franchise if go by what they have removed from title to title and what they have reduced, streamlined or simply changed in order to appeal to others. I'll see what they have produced, evaluate it for myself and then decide whether the direction they head is more in line with my own enjoyment and preferences or other peoples. If other peoples is the result and that is what seems to be occuring so far then being fair I simply will need to find another source of games that appeal to me but keep eye on future products incase produce one more in line with my own preferences once again.

A wait and see approach is all I can do for now and see if what they have created is the type of game I like or enjoy, if the elements they have removed or altered has a large enough detriment to my enjoyment that outweighs the positive aspects and vice versa if there is enough elements, aspects or components that outweigh the negative parts.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 mars 2012 - 02:41 .

[Chrumpek]

Read the whole thread and only thing to post is

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there is such a clear distinction between people who want to have gears of war in mass effect universe and people who want to have DAO sort of experience.

That's what we wanted to get with the 3 modes yet it seems they stripped or 'nerfed' the mode for RPG fans.

Modifié par Chrumpek, 03 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[BentOrgy]

Rockpopple wrote...

BentOrgy wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

@BentOrgy - if you're playing the Mass Effect games with a constant running tally of how many lines are determined by you and how many aren't, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly, until people brought it up, I didn't even notice that there was more auto-dialog in the ME3 demo. It's all about how it's perceived by the player.

Not every single line Shep said in ME2 contributed to the Paragon or Renegade score. Some were just throw away garbage lines to show how badass or cuddly Shepard was. All I'm saying is that system is still there, they just don't tag it on to every. single. line Shepard says. They've slightly changed the way the story is presented. PANIC!

As for lumping "everyone" on BSN together, I don't do that. If you see yourself in a group I characterized, that's really on you, not on me. If you think you've voiced your opinions with tact, that's great. Not everyone has.

"Doing it wrong?" Says who? You? Subjective.

You might not have, but I thinks its staggeringly obvious that others have noticed, or have you missed the dozens of similar threads like this one? When this amount of your audience rails against something, you've failed. Those numbers do not lie, and you can't dismiss all of the players who side with me and other's like me.

Those "Garbage lines," are what we want back. That's basically the whole point of my/our posts. I never debated if the Paragon/Renegade system was still intact, it obviously is; the problem is all of the non-aligned dialogue, or in this case, a severe lack thereof. So yes, PANIC, but not for the reason you gave.

And you said "BSN," which includes everyone. That's on you, not me.

Dude, I said BSN. That would presumably mean me as well, right? The Mods? Think about it.

"dozens" of similar threads? How many pages should I go back to find them? This is the only one on the front page. As for people noticing it, I'm not surprised. People notice a lot of stuff. People should notice lots of stuff. It's how people react to them that's important. Case in point: people noticed that in the last part of the earth demo, Anderson had zombie hands. It's good that the picked up on that. What they didn't pick up on was that his hands were dirty, because he was caught in an explosion. His hands were clean before. People mocked the game for days about that before figuring it out.

"Those garbage lines are what we want back"? a) I thought you didn't like it when everyone was lumped together. Who is "We"?

I regret saying "garbage lines", which is why I edited that. But, they were throw away lines. 

Look, obviously you think there's a severe lack of options now and you're.... concerned. Others, including myself, aren't that much. We're gonna pecieve how we're gonna perceive, and neither of us are gonna change the other's opinion.

So, you came in here without realizing how many people think this is a problem? And then proceeded to essentially tell us that we're being dramatic for no reason? How charming.

And you're point about Anderson's hands is...? They're not even remotely the same argument; auto-dialogue robbing the player of the sense of control and depth is hardly the same as a graphical issue.

Wow, you're really grasping a straws now. "We," was obviously concerning all of "Us," who are "Complaining," about the auto-Dialogue. And I don't really care that you called them "Garbage lines," because they were in a sense; they didn't propell the story forward, they existed to expand on the scene, character, and or topic, and that's what "We," miss.

Right, opinions, the numbers don't lie; there isn't a "Perceived," lack of options, there's a substantial, actual drop in them. Hence why I'm here.

Modifié par BentOrgy, 03 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[Rockpopple]

@BentOrgy - Chill. I don't consider you an enemy. I just disagree with you. Pretty much completely. That's all.

My point about Anderson's hands is that people - okay okay, SOME people, will freak out over anything without either getting the full story, or ignoring it.

Look, you keep to your guns and I'll keep to mine. The world will keep spinning either way.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 03 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[BentOrgy]

Rockpopple wrote...

@BentOrgy - Chill. I don't consider you an enemy. I just disagree with you. Pretty much completely. That's all.

My point about Anderson's hands is that people - okay okay, SOME people, will freak out over anything without either getting the full story, or ignoring it.

Look, you keep to your guns and I'll keep to mine. The world will keep spinning either way.

Fine by me, I don't actively look for arguments either. I just feel the need to make sure that the reasons why many of us are "Complaining," is made clear.
Not enemies. Wizard.

[RSX Titan]

How can anyone be surprised at the direction the Series has taken after ME2? I could understand some of these arguments (less dialogue, no customization, no explorations, blah blah) if we didn't have ME2 to look at. Face it, ME is a TPS with RPG elements. I wish it was so much more than that but's not so I will enjoy it for what it is.

[Chrumpek]

RSX Titan wrote...

How can anyone be surprised at the direction the Series has taken after ME2? I could understand some of these arguments (less dialogue, no customization, no explorations, blah blah) if we didn't have ME2 to look at. Face it, ME is a TPS with RPG elements. I wish it was so much more than that but's not so I will enjoy it for what it is.

Difference is we had control over our character, that was the staple of ME, and we are loosing it with every title that comes out.

If I want cool story and fun packed shooting I can go to other titles that do it better and just enjoy the ride.

[RSX Titan]

Chrumpek wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

How can anyone be surprised at the direction the Series has taken after ME2? I could understand some of these arguments (less dialogue, no customization, no explorations, blah blah) if we didn't have ME2 to look at. Face it, ME is a TPS with RPG elements. I wish it was so much more than that but's not so I will enjoy it for what it is.

Difference is we had control over our character, that was the staple of ME, and we are loosing it with every title that comes out.

If I want cool story and fun packed shooting I can go to other titles that do it better and just enjoy the ride.

I agree completely. Bioware doesn't seem to understand that the Shooter crowd is not going to play ME for the combat. They play it for the story. To make matters worse they blatantly ripped off the roadie run and the curb stomp from Gears. Come on.

I think ME2 is a great game but I much prefer ME1 even with the flawed combat but that is because I prefer RPGs over Shooters. I just pray ME3 isn't a ME2 clone.

Modifié par RSX Titan, 03 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[evenstars]

One of the worst parts is this was supposed to be why they added the action mode - for the people who wanted less choices. So I don't get why they would cut out options in rpg mode since people choosing that mode want the options. And yes, that includes the small “pointless" options as well (for me anyway).

[BentOrgy]

RSX Titan wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

How can anyone be surprised at the direction the Series has taken after ME2? I could understand some of these arguments (less dialogue, no customization, no explorations, blah blah) if we didn't have ME2 to look at. Face it, ME is a TPS with RPG elements. I wish it was so much more than that but's not so I will enjoy it for what it is.

Difference is we had control over our character, that was the staple of ME, and we are loosing it with every title that comes out.

If I want cool story and fun packed shooting I can go to other titles that do it better and just enjoy the ride.

I agree completely. Bioware doesn't seem to understand that the Shooter crowd is not going to play ME for the combat. They play it for the story. To make matters worse they blatantly ripped off the roadie run and the curb stomp from Gears. Come on.

I think ME2 is a great game but I much prefer ME1 even with the flawed combat but that is because I prefer RPGs over Shooters. I just pray ME3 isn't a ME2 clone.

Can't agree more. Although, as weak as ME2's story was, the characters made it livible for me.

[Femlob]

I can't wait for March 7th. The butthurt will be extreme, and I'll be on the sidelines with more popcorn than I can imagine I'll ever be able to eat.

Why I'll enjoy the fallout, you ask? Because there's way too many people on BSN who choose to be blind, who choose to ignore, who choose to be oblivious. They deserve every last bit of heartbreak they'll be getting.

[MonkeyLungs]

As long as the story is good and comes to a satisfying conclusion (no cliffhangers) then I will be quite pleased.

So many changes have come that I wish hadn't but overall I'm in it for Shep's story. The launch trailer is really good lol ...

[Nathan Redgrave]

I'd rather have the brutal honest of occasional bouts of auto-dialogue than ME1's "the cake is a lie" method, whereby you are routinely presented with three dialogue choices where two, or sometimes all three, are options that result in the exact same dialogue.

[brfritos]

"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's".

It seems I need to take back my last comment, because yes, the Gamestop video's full of auto-dialog, even if it's configured for Shepard's full decisions.
I only watched until the middle, when Shepard talks for the first time with the general and then go to the tower. Then I watched the rest.
Good lord, what you've done Bioware? :|

Not even choosing who will go back to the Normandy I have the option?
And what are those "points" telling me what I have to do?
I'm not a moron, I can navigate in the battlefiled (and sometimes being losed in the middle of a battle is what makes it fun)

You people are sure he's playing in RPG mode?

Modifié par brfritos, 03 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[gabe2gg]

gearseffect wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Why did there even have to be a STORY MODE or an ACTION MODE? I really don't get it ...

Yes I hate that too! What got sh!t on for the sake of adding 2 other types of Story Mode? How much conversastion was cut out for the sake of Action Mode in an attempt to pull in the audence that buys the run of the mill shooters the Call Of Duty fans!

And the lounch Trailer who markets someting as "If you haven't been playing ME now is the best time to start" A better way would be"If you haven't played ME before You've been missing out on the most player driven game out there"

ME1 and ME2 had only one and ya know what the fans were ok with 'em beacuse the Characters and Story and over all the sense that this was MY STORY did not suffer.

I don't kiss @ss, and I am not going to put on a fake happy face and try and act like everything looks all great, I have some big issues and concerns, I'm hoping for the best, but I fear the worst, There are just too many things that seem wrong about this right now. 
Save your "maybe once we have the game we'll know more" Serman I'm saying that I'm scared sh!tless that this game Series didn't Jump the Shark the Shark Jump It.

From what I've seen of it so far things do not look to good.

Action Mode. How about one F*cking type of Story mode? Unless Action Mode ended up becoming the one type of Story Mode and the little conversatsion options that pop up are mearly there so BW can tell the True ME fans "conversatsion were in there u could have dem, we didn't cut things like that out and all the stuff u luv bout the game is in the for you main ME Fans" which may just mean "It's all there just under the piles of sh!t in there to help grab the Call Of Duty Halo, and standarnd run of the mill shooter fans"

EA has dumbed down the series in order to make the games more casual meaning more profit.

[Jacen987]

gabe2gg wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Why did there even have to be a STORY MODE or an ACTION MODE? I really don't get it ...

Yes I hate that too! What got sh!t on for the sake of adding 2 other types of Story Mode? How much conversastion was cut out for the sake of Action Mode in an attempt to pull in the audence that buys the run of the mill shooters the Call Of Duty fans!

And the lounch Trailer who markets someting as "If you haven't been playing ME now is the best time to start" A better way would be"If you haven't played ME before You've been missing out on the most player driven game out there"

ME1 and ME2 had only one and ya know what the fans were ok with 'em beacuse the Characters and Story and over all the sense that this was MY STORY did not suffer.

I don't kiss @ss, and I am not going to put on a fake happy face and try and act like everything looks all great, I have some big issues and concerns, I'm hoping for the best, but I fear the worst, There are just too many things that seem wrong about this right now. 
Save your "maybe once we have the game we'll know more" Serman I'm saying that I'm scared sh!tless that this game Series didn't Jump the Shark the Shark Jump It.

From what I've seen of it so far things do not look to good.

Action Mode. How about one F*cking type of Story mode? Unless Action Mode ended up becoming the one type of Story Mode and the little conversatsion options that pop up are mearly there so BW can tell the True ME fans "conversatsion were in there u could have dem, we didn't cut things like that out and all the stuff u luv bout the game is in the for you main ME Fans" which may just mean "It's all there just under the piles of sh!t in there to help grab the Call Of Duty Halo, and standarnd run of the mill shooter fans"

EA has dumbed down the series in order to make the games more casual meaning more profit.

Look from what i understand, theres absolutely no cutting and dumbing down.If you watched the interview with Casey Hudson, the different modes are basically flipping switches from the options menu.In case of action mode,there no prompts for dialog, in story mode difficulty is set ot casual. Thats pretty much it, its the same game, just acomodating to more playstyle, witch is honestly very good from a purely objective perspective. Even though i couldnt care less/

Now before you try to jump down my though and rebuff the above statement, id like proof they actually did cut lines, dialog, promts, whtever...... 

The man explaned and i made perfect sense. All they added was just more options, to the diff setting,,,,

Sorry for Spelling...


I understand what some people are worried about, because i'm in the same boat. I played MP anda as fun as it was, immeditly recognized a 3rd person shooter. That said ME3,while it wont surpass ME1, will be infinately better than ME2. 100%

From what ive seen, they've taken care to reimplemnent dozens of thing to ensure, its not just a corridor shooter.....

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[BentOrgy]

Jacen987 wrote...

Look from what i understand, theres absolutely no cutting and dumbing down.If you watched the interview with Casey Hudson, the different modes are basically flipping switches from the options menu.In case of action mode,there no prompts for dialog, in story mode difficulty is set ot casual. Thats pretty much it, its the same game, just acomodating to more playstyle, witch is honestly very good from a purely objective perspective. Even though i couldnt care less/

Now before you try to jump down my though and rebuff the above statement, id like proof they actually did cut lines, dialog, promts, whtever...... 

The man explaned and i made perfect sense. All they added was just more options, to the diff setting,,,,

Sorry for Spelling...

Yes, that's what he "Said," but feel free to look at the trailers, demos, reviews, player reaction, stating the contrary. I played "RPG Mode," and with "Full Dialogue Options," and recieved nothing except the ability to level my characters. Something I've been doing for over ten years.