2656 réponses à ce sujet

[SynheKatze]

Sincerely, if the whole game is like that, I think I'll get asleep in the first three hours.

[TobyHasEyes]

 I am willing to presume that that mission isn't exactly representative of the game in fullness, if only because the combat in that brief section was also ten times worse than anything shown in the demo or other glimpses. Whilst it doesn't prove that this won't be an issue, it is a cautionary tale on drawing too many conclusions from such a small preview

[Comsky159]

Wulfram wrote...

The PLC wrote...

I don't have a problem with this to be honest. ME1 had tons of conversations were all three options turned out to be Shepard saying the same thing. No need for options like then, when it doesn't have an impact anyway.

There's nothing like as many occasions of that as there seem to be occasions of auto-dialogue in ME3.

Compare initial Normandy+Eden Prime in ME1 to Earth in the ME3 demo.  The difference is utterly huge.

The me3 opening is pathetic compared to it's older counterpart. I miss where the player had the option to unfold the origin of the over-arching narrative through surrounding characters (e.g. Chakwas, Jenkins and Adams); essentially interrelating narrative exposition and player agency. Me2's relatively vague opening was acceptable in this respect because Shepard was as clueless as the player all the way through the intro.

In the me3 opening there's a severe discrepancy in knowledge between the player and character and no legitimate excuse for it. It's all preclusion and assumption so that role-playing is minimal and nowhere near as engaging.

[N00blet666]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 I am willing to presume that that mission isn't exactly representative of the game in fullness, if only because the combat in that brief section was also ten times worse than anything shown in the demo or other glimpses. Whilst it doesn't prove that this won't be an issue, it is a cautionary tale on drawing too many conclusions from such a small preview

Yes I agree. I have talked to people who have played the game and they have said that there is not that much auto dialogue so, perhaps this small sgement is not representitive of the full game. Menae is also very early on in the game.

[Wulfram]

N00blet666 wrote...

Yes I agree. I have talked to people who have played the game and they have said that there is not that much auto dialogue so, perhaps this small sgement is not representitive of the full game. Menae is also very early on in the game.

So the Demo isn't representative of the game, and this isn't representative of the game either?  That's not adding up for me.  Maybe there are segments of the game where you get less auto-dialogue than we've seen, but there are clearly extensive periods of the game where it predominates.

Possibly it's a matter of interpretation.  There are people on this thread who are totally OK with this video and the Demo, who thus would probably feel that the complete game doesn't have too much auto-dialogue.  Whereas for me the auto-dialogue grates whenever it appears, so I percieve it as dominating.

[android654]

I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

[DaJe]

android654 wrote...

I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

It is somewhat a psychological thing with fans that has a lot of parrallels to love. When you are super excited about something you often lose objectivity.

I got angry at an honest reviewer back then who didn`t give ME2 super high marks. I was such a fan of the franchise that even before playing the game I was sure it could not have that many problems. It took a while but now I can see how right he was in every aspect. 

It is an art it self to judge art in an objective way.

[TobyHasEyes]

android654 wrote...

I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

 You should also be able to see a short preview for what it is.. 

 .. as I said previously, the combat shown here is in no way representative of what we have seen elsewhere. A cautionary tale for reading too much into a short preview

[Daywalker315]

^ I can respect that YOU see a flaw but I don't see it. Eliminating the choice in something like whether I say "Go ahead, Joker" or "We're here, Joker" when Normandy calls down to us on the planet does not make your RP-Shep incomplete. That gameplay video got me even more excited because as a whole, it looks like the best experience of the three. I can live with a few unimportant phrases being said without me picking or chosen and said based on my Paragon/Renegade score as others have suggested.

[Daywalker315]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Reposting because I don't think everyone saw this earlier.

Daywalker315 wrote...

*******Posted in the Team Vegas thread by one of the Vegas guys who got a Space copy. Part of the Q and A. I suggest everybody reading the last page of that thread here: http://social.biowar...ndex/9471802/13 **********

Zenor wrote...

Sleepee wrote...


JeffZero wrote...

I feel bad about asking anything after all the great answers he's provided, but I might as well go ahead and be part of the experience, so whenever he's ready to respond to more, here's mine:

Are the number of times a dialogue wheel pops up versus the amount of times Shepard speaks on his/her own about equal to Mass Effect 2, or does Shepard take the lead much more frequently now without player input?


"I'm not sure I understand the question. Dialogue is about the same as in ME2, with different camera angles, if that helps."



I think he is asking do we get to choose most of our responses, instead of shepard just saying something without letting us pick a response.
Like someone going
"hey shepard"
and shepard just says "hi" without asking us how to respond.
If you could awnser this again, I would be happy to hear an awnser! Also thank you so much for all the awnsers you guys told us so far!



"Shepard replies more on his own than he did before, definitely. You still do get to choose most responses, though."

[Fredvdp]

android654 wrote...

I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

The thing is that The Witcher and its sequel also had a lot of auto-dialog and while I thought it would bother me at first, I didn't find it annoying at all.

[Darth Death]

Maybe importing your character will bring in more dialogue options, I hope.

[Duncaaaaaan]

The PLC wrote...

I don't have a problem with this to be honest. ME1 had tons of conversations were all three options turned out to be Shepard saying the same thing. No need for options like then, when it doesn't have an impact anyway.

Didn't seem like that to me though.

All three choices advanced the conversation, but they were far from the same.

[Waage25]

Bioware removing choice in favor of more railroading. NOOOOO who would have guessed that they would EVER do that.
Maybe the choices will be DLC:

[Wulfram]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Didn't seem like that to me though.

All three choices advanced the conversation, but they were far from the same.

There were occasions when all the choices turned out to be exactly the same.  They sucked.

They weren't anything like as prevalent as auto-dialogue has been in what I've seen in ME3

[Duncaaaaaan]

Comsky159 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The PLC wrote...

I don't have a problem with this to be honest. ME1 had tons of conversations were all three options turned out to be Shepard saying the same thing. No need for options like then, when it doesn't have an impact anyway.

There's nothing like as many occasions of that as there seem to be occasions of auto-dialogue in ME3.

Compare initial Normandy+Eden Prime in ME1 to Earth in the ME3 demo.  The difference is utterly huge.

The me3 opening is pathetic compared to it's older counterpart. I miss where the player had the option to unfold the origin of the over-arching narrative through surrounding characters (e.g. Chakwas, Jenkins and Adams); essentially interrelating narrative exposition and player agency. Me2's relatively vague opening was acceptable in this respect because Shepard was as clueless as the player all the way through the intro.

In the me3 opening there's a severe discrepancy in knowledge between the player and character and no legitimate excuse for it. It's all preclusion and assumption so that role-playing is minimal and nowhere near as engaging.

I thought ME2's opening was just insane... in a good way. I really liked it. At first I was like "what the hell?" at Shep's death, but later I realised, it's actually a great opening.

ME3's opening is a load of crap though to be perfectly honest. No crazy explosions and a sense of helplessness as the Normandy is blasted open like a cracked nut and you can see space above you, it's just corridor after corridor of poor textures and graphics, ridiculous running animations and things like 2D sprites that i would expect to see in a super mario game.

[Rickin10]

Wulfram wrote...

N00blet666 wrote...

Yes I agree. I have talked to people who have played the game and they have said that there is not that much auto dialogue so, perhaps this small sgement is not representitive of the full game. Menae is also very early on in the game.

So the Demo isn't representative of the game, and this isn't representative of the game either?  That's not adding up for me.  Maybe there are segments of the game where you get less auto-dialogue than we've seen, but there are clearly extensive periods of the game where it predominates.

Indeed.  You have to wonder, with all the stuff that we've seen, what exactly is  representative of the game?

Modifié par Rickin10, 03 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[Nordicus]

Fredvdp wrote...

The thing is that The Witcher and its sequel also had a lot of auto-dialog and while I thought it would bother me at first, I didn't find it annoying at all.

Yet Geralt is an established character with a lot of backstory and has some defining character traits, such as a good bit of intellect, mostly prefers not to interfere with conflicts between people, never really enjoys killing people, etc.

[DaJe]

Daywalker315 wrote...

^ I can respect that YOU see a flaw but I don't see it. Eliminating the choice in something like whether I say "Go ahead, Joker" or "We're here, Joker" when Normandy calls down to us on the planet does not make your RP-Shep incomplete. That gameplay video got me even more excited because as a whole, it looks like the best experience of the three. I can live with a few unimportant phrases being said without me picking or chosen and said based on my Paragon/Renegade score as others have suggested.

As soon as you don`t play a straight up Paragon or Renegade Shepard, he is bound to say things that are out of character.

The demo alone already had multiple situations where the auto dialog disrupted the character picture as it was build up for two games.

It`s not just unimportant phrases and that is the problem.

Furthermore, even saying the same thing in a different way can form the character. We are building Shepard for 3 games, enough time to establish patterns through details.
Everytime Shepard says something without you having control it creates distance between player and player character. Even more it becomes unclear how you are supposed to see Shepard. Are you observing another character or are you directing him? When it becomes so unfocussed it stops feeling natural and intuitive.
"Lalalalalalala........................" Oh, should I do something now? I thought I was just watching.

This is still supposed to be a roleplaying game or not? As such this design is a flaw.

[Duncaaaaaan]

B-b-but it's just a demo!!!!
They'll fix it in a patch!!!
Or DLC!!!

I don't wanna be allooooonnneee!!!!

[mogonk]

android654 wrote...
I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

You must be new here.  They do this constantly.

The key point to understanding a drone's thinking is that you must start with the a priori assumption that every game Bioware makes is absolutely flawless.  Everything else is deduced starting from that basic premise.  So if a demo makes a game seem shallow, or boring, the demo isn't representative of the real game.  If a game has reduced choice for the player, choice was a bad thing and we should be grateful they took it away.   It's all "logical" if you start from the right premise.

DaJe wrote...
As soon as you don`t play a straight up Paragon or Renegade Shepard, he is bound to say things that are out of character.

Because you're doing it wrong.  Didn't you know?  There are two roleplaying choices in Mass Effect.  Paragon or Renegade.  Characterization more subtle than that is outdated and we should be grateful they took it away.

Modifié par mogonk, 03 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Daywalker315]

DaJe wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

^ I can respect that YOU see a flaw but I don't see it. Eliminating the choice in something like whether I say "Go ahead, Joker" or "We're here, Joker" when Normandy calls down to us on the planet does not make your RP-Shep incomplete. That gameplay video got me even more excited because as a whole, it looks like the best experience of the three. I can live with a few unimportant phrases being said without me picking or chosen and said based on my Paragon/Renegade score as others have suggested.

As soon as you don`t play a straight up Paragon or Renegade Shepard, he is bound to say things that are out of character.

The demo alone already had multiple situations where the auto dialog disrupted the character picture as it was build up for two games.

It`s not just unimportant phrases and that is the problem.

Furthermore, even saying the same thing in a different way can form the character. We are building Shepard for 3 games, enough time to establish patterns through details.
Everytime Shepard says something without you having control it creates distance between player and player character. Even more it becomes unclear how you are supposed to see Shepard. Are you observing another character or are you directing him? When it becomes so unfocussed it stops feeling natural and intuitive.
"Lalalalalalala........................" Oh, should I do something now? I thought I was just watching.

This is still supposed to be a roleplaying game or not? As such this design is a flaw.

Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

[Massefeckt]

Waage25 wrote...

Bioware removing choice in favor of more railroading. NOOOOO who would have guessed that they would EVER do that.
Maybe the choices will be DLC:

Paragon choices EXCLUSIVE to GAME!!! Renegade ECLUSIVE to Gamestation and you have to buy six special EXCLUSIVE figurines to get the investigative options!!!

[Wulfram]

Lets not get into calling people who disagree with us "drones".

The truth is a lot of people do play these games as straight paragons/renegades, and for those these changes might be considered an improvement in some ways - saves on clicking, and can give more of a sense of "flow" to dialogue.

[BounceDK]

Good call, bargain bin.