2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Massefeckt]

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

[mogonk]

Wulfram wrote...
The truth is a lot of people do play these games as straight paragons/renegades, and for those these changes might be considered an improvement in some ways - saves on clicking, and can give more of a sense of "flow" to dialogue.

See?  This would be what I'm talking about.

This guy just found a way to turn reduced dialogue choices and auto-dialogue into a good thing.  It saves on clicking and adds flow to dialogue.  Doesn't that sound wonderful?  Mass Effect is getting better all the time!

[android654]

mogonk wrote...

android654 wrote...
I'm surprised how apologetic people are about this. I can understand being excited about the game, but you should be able to see an obvious flaw where there is an obvious flaw.

You must be new here.  They do this constantly.

The key point to understanding a drone's thinking is that you must start with the a priori assumption that every game Bioware makes is absolutely flawless.  Everything else is deduced starting from that basic premise.  So if a demo makes a game seem shallow, or boring, the demo isn't representative of the real game.  If a game has reduced choice for the player, choice was a bad thing and we should be grateful they took it away.   It's all "logical" if you start from the right premise.

DaJe wrote...
As soon as you don`t play a straight up Paragon or Renegade Shepard, he is bound to say things that are out of character.

Because you're doing it wrong.  Didn't you know?  There are two roleplaying choices in Mass Effect.  Paragon or Renegade.  Characterization more subtle than that is outdated and we should be grateful they took it away.

That has been my issue. Of my four Shepard's only two are purists in Renegade and Paragon. The other two are Renegon and Paragrade. They're diplomatic in some situations and self serving in others. If I have auto dialogue when meeting Garrus in a friendly fashion, even though I spent the last two games insulting him and telling him he's wrong about everything, then my immersion at this point it broken. Now if I'm playing someone who has been friendly with him, then it's fitting. Either way they should have realized auto dialogue with a character who's personality can vary was a bad move.

[Wulfram]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Even if so, and we have no indication of it, it really doesn't fix the problem.  My Sheps who pick neutral dialogue choices tend to end up being highly Paragon.  My nearest to neutral shep should in fact be picking mostly renegade dialogue options.

[Wulfram]

mogonk wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
The truth is a lot of people do play these games as straight paragons/renegades, and for those these changes might be considered an improvement in some ways - saves on clicking, and can give more of a sense of "flow" to dialogue.

See?  This would be what I'm talking about.

This guy just found a way to turn reduced dialogue choices and auto-dialogue into a good thing.  It saves on clicking and adds flow to dialogue.  Doesn't that sound wonderful?  Mass Effect is getting better all the time!

I don't think it's a good thing for me, at all.  I'm pretty devastated about it, actually.  But I can understand that other people want different things from the game.

[Calibrationmaster]

dumbdown the games much bioware, EA is eating your soul

[Oron345]

mogonk wrote...

This guy just found a way to turn reduced dialogue choices and auto-dialogue into a good thing.  It saves on clicking and adds flow to dialogue.  Doesn't that sound wonderful?  Mass Effect is getting better all the time!

 

Modifié par Oron345, 03 mars 2012 - 03:21 .

[android654]

Wulfram wrote...

mogonk wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
The truth is a lot of people do play these games as straight paragons/renegades, and for those these changes might be considered an improvement in some ways - saves on clicking, and can give more of a sense of "flow" to dialogue.

See?  This would be what I'm talking about.

This guy just found a way to turn reduced dialogue choices and auto-dialogue into a good thing.  It saves on clicking and adds flow to dialogue.  Doesn't that sound wonderful?  Mass Effect is getting better all the time!

I don't think it's a good thing for me, at all.  I'm pretty devastated about it, actually.  But I can understand that other people want different things from the game.

I thought they got that in Action Mode.

Modifié par android654, 03 mars 2012 - 03:22 .

[Siven80]

Im waiting to play the full game to see how it is rather than base my opinion on tutorial levels and small snippets of video.

Far more sensible than defending something we know little about or complaining based on little info atm.

[Wulfram]

Siven80 wrote...

Im waiting to play the full game to see how it is rather than base my opinion on tutorial levels and small snippets of video.

Far more sensible than defending something we know little about or complaining based on little info atm.

Thing is, that requires paying a fairly hefty chunk of money over for a product you may not want.

[mogonk]

Wulfram wrote...
I don't think it's a good thing for me, at all.  I'm pretty devastated about it, actually.  But I can understand that other people want different things from the game.

I gathered that from your subsequent posts.  You're quite right that different people want different things from the game.  There are two major groups they absolutely have to appeal to.

A.  The dudebros who play Mass Effect as a whack-a-mole shooter.
B.  The sad nerds who play Mass Effect as a dating simulator....IN SPACE.

So....action?  Check.  Adolescent wish-fulfillment?  Check.  SHIP IT BOYS, WE'RE DONE.

I don't think people who want well written role-playing games are a large enough demographic to make it onto Bioware's check-list.

[Daywalker315]

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

[TobyHasEyes]

mogonk wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
I don't think it's a good thing for me, at all.  I'm pretty devastated about it, actually.  But I can understand that other people want different things from the game.

I gathered that from your subsequent posts.  You're quite right that different people want different things from the game.  There are two major groups they absolutely have to appeal to.

A.  The dudebros who play Mass Effect as a whack-a-mole shooter.
B.  The sad nerds who play Mass Effect as a dating simulator....IN SPACE.

So....action?  Check.  Adolescent wish-fulfillment?  Check.  SHIP IT BOYS, WE'RE DONE.

I don't think people who want well written role-playing games are a large enough demographic to make it onto Bioware's check-list.

 Dudebros? Sad nerds? If only everyone had the intellectual and sophisticated love of a certain genre of video games as you do eh

[RSX Titan]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

Spot in with everything. ME was never meant to be what so many people expected it to be. Shepard has a fairly straight forward story to tell. He's not the Warden from DA1. People need to get over what type of game Bioware envisioned because it's clearly not what some of these so called "oldschool RPG" fans envisioned it to be.

[realguile]

Massefeckt wrote...


I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

Damn right my friend. Damn right.

[RSX Titan]

Wulfram wrote...

mogonk wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
The truth is a lot of people do play these games as straight paragons/renegades, and for those these changes might be considered an improvement in some ways - saves on clicking, and can give more of a sense of "flow" to dialogue.

See?  This would be what I'm talking about.

This guy just found a way to turn reduced dialogue choices and auto-dialogue into a good thing.  It saves on clicking and adds flow to dialogue.  Doesn't that sound wonderful?  Mass Effect is getting better all the time!

I don't think it's a good thing for me, at all.  I'm pretty devastated about it, actually.  But I can understand that other people want different things from the game.

I wish the ME series was much heavier on RPG elements. Hell, I wish I could roll an alien and outift everyone with Vorpal swords and full plate, lol. But once I got over it, I've come to really enjoy ME2 for what it is and I suspect ME3 will also be a great game. I happen to like Shooters even though RPGs are #1 so it's an easier transition for me. One thing is for sure, fans shouldn't be devastated over a video game not being what they wanted it to be. It's entertainment afterall.

[mogonk]

And now the new one, "Of course there isn't choice! There was never supposed to be choice! Mass Effect isn't a role-playing game! Any choices you felt you had in previous iterations of the series were entirely imagined! Imagined, I say!".

Look at them. They're like acrobats, nimbly spinning from one rationalization to another, with no hesitation, no regret. It's beautiful.

[N00blet666]

RSX Titan wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

Spot in with everything. ME was never meant to be what so many people expected it to be. Shepard has a fairly straight forward story to tell. He's not the Warden from DA1. People need to get over what type of game Bioware envisioned because it's clearly not what some of these so called "oldschool RPG" fans envisioned it to be.

I don't think people who want more dialogue options envision ME as something it's not. In ME1 and 2 there was not nearly as much auto dialogue as there seems to be in 3. I'm not saying that ME3 doesn't seem enough like an old school RPG i'm saying that ME3 doesn't seem to have as many dialogue prompts as ME1 or 2. 

[RSX Titan]

N00blet666 wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

Spot in with everything. ME was never meant to be what so many people expected it to be. Shepard has a fairly straight forward story to tell. He's not the Warden from DA1. People need to get over what type of game Bioware envisioned because it's clearly not what some of these so called "oldschool RPG" fans envisioned it to be.

I don't think people who want more dialogue options envision ME as something it's not. In ME1 and 2 there was not nearly as much auto dialogue as there seems to be in 3. I'm not saying that ME3 doesn't seem enough like an old school RPG i'm saying that ME3 doesn't seem to have as many dialogue prompts as ME1 or 2. 

I see what you are saying. Personally, I don't think a ****ty single player demo and some light footage is enough to to go off of at this point in time about the auto-dialogue. I'll judge that for myself  when I play the game.

[FlashHand777]

I have to admit, at first this didn't bother me as I hadn't seen enough footage, however having played the demo, and then seeing some of the Gamespot footage, it is a little, sparse. However the proof is in the pudding as they say.

[Ghost-621]

mogonk wrote...

And now the new one, "Of course there isn't choice! There was never supposed to be choice! Mass Effect isn't a role-playing game! Any choices you felt you had in previous iterations of the series were entirely imagined! Imagined, I say!".

Look at them. They're like acrobats, nimbly spinning from one rationalization to another, with no hesitation, no regret. It's beautiful.

That is how the BDF works, my friend. They cling to imaginary straws that they dream up.

Mass Effect 3 is turning out to be everything I feared and everything I didn't ask for.

[Il Divo]

FlashHand777 wrote...


I have to admit, at first this didn't bother me as I hadn't seen enough footage, however having played the demo, and then seeing some of the Gamespot footage, it is a little, sparse. However the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Admittedly, I'm a fan of pudding. More for the texture than the taste.

[Jacen987]

RSX Titan wrote...

N00blet666 wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

Spot in with everything. ME was never meant to be what so many people expected it to be. Shepard has a fairly straight forward story to tell. He's not the Warden from DA1. People need to get over what type of game Bioware envisioned because it's clearly not what some of these so called "oldschool RPG" fans envisioned it to be.

I don't think people who want more dialogue options envision ME as something it's not. In ME1 and 2 there was not nearly as much auto dialogue as there seems to be in 3. I'm not saying that ME3 doesn't seem enough like an old school RPG i'm saying that ME3 doesn't seem to have as many dialogue prompts as ME1 or 2. 

I see what you are saying. Personally, I don't think a ****ty single player demo and some light footage is enough to to go off of at this point in time about the auto-dialogue. I'll judge that for myself  when I play the game.

Yeppp.

Play the damn thing first, before you make up your minds... This whole disscusinon, more like Holy War between the Enlightened and the Blind, is premature.

Unless your looking for an excuse to not buy the game. If so, do yourself a favor and stay away. If you wanna be dissapointed, youll be dissapointed.

Otherwise, play it atleast a day, and then pass jugdement.( if you must, i say, everyone's a critic these days)

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 04:14 .

[Rickin10]

FlashHand777 wrote...


I have to admit, at first this didn't bother me as I hadn't seen enough footage, however having played the demo, and then seeing some of the Gamespot footage, it is a little, sparse. However the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Yep.  And we've had a couple of mouthfuls and it feels half-baked.

[AkiKishi]

I don't find them interesting enough without the conversation breaks.

Interaction is about on par with FFXIII-2 but you get 4 choices there (one for each face button). But the direction and animation of the scenes is quite inferior.

Whoever made that launch trailer though did a cracking editing job.

Never thought I'd see the day when a FF game had more points of choice than a Bioware game. The cutscene quality was pretty much a given though.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 03 mars 2012 - 04:13 .