2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrumpek]

To mr 'Daywalker315'

Don't want to argue just point out one fact to your argument (Go ahead Joker vs We are here Joker).
To me it is difference because in real life when you go on about, you interact not only with people by telling them information but also using appropriate tone and words to express it.

Think about it, for some RP player that like to get into the story it does matter a lot how they express same information or opinion.

Now onto the whole revived discussion again, you people need to realize one huge principal in one world. When it comes to human beings and living, more options is always better.
There is no arguing about it, it's not saying 'more' is better but the more options people the better they can choose what to do//get etc.
Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Modifié par Chrumpek, 03 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[FlashHand777]

Rickin10 wrote...

FlashHand777 wrote...


I have to admit, at first this didn't bother me as I hadn't seen enough footage, however having played the demo, and then seeing some of the Gamespot footage, it is a little, sparse. However the proof is in the pudding as they say.

Yep.  And we've had a couple of mouthfuls and it feels half-baked.

Aye it looks like we might be watching someone eat our pudding for us ha! Letting us have the odd spoonful.

[Jacen987]

Ghost-621 wrote...

mogonk wrote...

And now the new one, "Of course there isn't choice! There was never supposed to be choice! Mass Effect isn't a role-playing game! Any choices you felt you had in previous iterations of the series were entirely imagined! Imagined, I say!".

Look at them. They're like acrobats, nimbly spinning from one rationalization to another, with no hesitation, no regret. It's beautiful.

That is how the BDF works, my friend. They cling to imaginary straws that they dream up.

Mass Effect 3 is turning out to be everything I feared and everything I didn't ask for.

Oh, excuse me Future Man, with tha visions and da premanitions.

I dont care how many signs, there are.

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Rickin10]

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

[Jacen987]

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

And apparantly you didnt get it....

Seriously, dont you guys have something to do, for the next few days, until it actually comes out.

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[Rickin10]

Jacen987 wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

And apparantly you didnt get it....

Seriously, dont you guys have something to do, for the next few days, until it actually comes out.

I'm sorry, what it didn't I get?

[Shorshy]

 Ive been playing through the last two games and I think the criticism of Mass Effect 3 for lack of dialogue choices is founded on the assumption that there was no auto dialogue in the other Mass Effect games. Mass Effect 1 had very little autodialogue but many of the options would say either the exact same audio or there would be a difference in the words you said but not in the meaning.

Mass Effect 2 had plenty of autodialogue that filled in between choices and just because somethings done automatically it doesnt mean that it wasnt based on your choice, im sure some of the auto dialogue is based on what you chose in the option before.

Someone asked what if they wanted to insult garrus when they meet him, well im pretty sure you couldnt in Mass Effect 2 either but thats not being complained about.

Those games turned out fine autodialogue and all, if the autodialogue is well implemented and doesnt hinder are ability to make the story our own then it shouldnt matter.

[FlashHand777]

Jacen987 wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

And apparantly you didnt get it....

Seriously, dont you guys have something to do, for the next few days, until it actually comes out.

Yeah you're right, you could, for example say, learn to spell properly rather than assume things about people's lives. We'll spend the next few days occasionally coming on to a forum to discuss a series we love whilst also not passing judgement to facilitate a false sense of superiority. Thanks for the advice.

[Ghost-621]

We aren't going anywhere. No amount of dreaming or sucking up to bioware will change that, Jacen.
If you refuse to pay attention to signs, this game is the least of your worries.
Cancer has signs.
Broken bones have signs.
You dont need to see them all the way to understand what you're dealing with.

With all that has been shown by Bioware, it looks like we are getting a half-baked shooter with a ruined story and lore, and the elements that made it great in the first place removed and dumbed down to make more room for crappy shooter gameplay.

[Rickin10]

Shorshy wrote...

 Ive been playing through the last two games and I think the criticism of Mass Effect 3 for lack of dialogue choices is founded on the assumption that there was no auto dialogue in the other Mass Effect games. Mass Effect 1 had very little autodialogue but many of the options would say either the exact same audio or there would be a difference in the words you said but not in the meaning.

Mass Effect 2 had plenty of autodialogue that filled in between choices and just because somethings done automatically it doesnt mean that it wasnt based on your choice, im sure some of the auto dialogue is based on what you chose in the option before.

Someone asked what if they wanted to insult garrus when they meet him, well im pretty sure you couldnt in Mass Effect 2 either but thats not being complained about.

Those games turned out fine autodialogue and all, if the autodialogue is well implemented and doesnt hinder are ability to make the story our own then it shouldnt matter.

Sure there was autodialogue in those games, but I thought they rarely shoehorned 'your' character into a canon shep that appears to be what ME3 has done.  

[Wulfram]

There was far, far less autodialogue in ME1 and ME2 than we've seen in ME3.

I say this a lot, but compare the ME1 intro (Eden Prime + Normandy) with the ME3 Demo on Earth. It's totally different. One lets you define your character yourself, the other dictates a characterization to you.

[Jacen987]

Rickin10 wrote...

Jacen987 wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

And apparantly you didnt get it....

Seriously, dont you guys have something to do, for the next few days, until it actually comes out.

I'm sorry, what it didn't I get?

He meant it was the same game for everyone, but the Action Mode has most, but the mayor decisions and interrupts, turned off.

As in, you dont get dilog promt in AM, to accomodate 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them' 

Nowhere was he refering to the actaul RP-mode, to or demogarphic, that prefers more freedom in dialog trees.

[Daywalker315]

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

He just means the dialogue isn't written differently for the different modes and the combat doesn't change. Story mode is super easy difficulty and Action just auto selects a choice from the dialogue wheel without bringing the wheel itself up. That's all it is. /tinfoilhatoff

[Jacen987]

Wulfram wrote...

There was far, far less autodialogue in ME1 and ME2 than we've seen in ME3.

I say this a lot, but compare the ME1 intro (Eden Prime + Normandy) with the ME3 Demo on Earth. It's totally different. One lets you define your character yourself, the other dictates a characterization to you.

OOOKK, where exactly in the earth demo, did you feel, you were robbed of your charakterisation. Mind you havent seen much footage, after Earth part ends.

But specifically there, Shepard gets all the promts, where theres a chance to reinforce his charater, attutude, whatever.

And everything else is the same, because lets face it....... Shepard will always be a soldier, will always try to save the galaxy, will always come form a trial, will always have his/her rank striped, will always have prothean cypher and the encouter with vigil and soverngn...

No matter, what bloody motivation or personality you have chosen... you're never gonna be an artisan, a villan, or a coward in ME.. So not every line needs to sement the same esseantail charakteristics of Shepard.

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[Chrumpek]

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

That's my point, we got 3 options of gameplay, why strip RPG from options ot choose dialogue? If soemone doesn't want it he got 'option' to go action mode without it. If soemone wants to have lil choice from time to time, he got spacebar.

If I want to control everything shepard is saying, I can't the option was taken out, which means we are taking steps backwards and that is never good for progress in any way.

[Ghost-621]

Wulfram wrote...

There was far, far less autodialogue in ME1 and ME2 than we've seen in ME3.

I say this a lot, but compare the ME1 intro (Eden Prime + Normandy) with the ME3 Demo on Earth. It's totally different. One lets you define your character yourself, the other dictates a characterization to you.

[Rickin10]

I understand what you're both saying, and I sincerely hope you're correct. However, all the evidence I've seen and heard indicates that the rpg mode has been severely compromised.

[DaJe]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

And there is the problem. Mass Effect was advertised as roleplaying game from the start. The first game would have almost no auto dialog (or did it have any?). Maybe you are part of the group who bought a roleplaying game for different reasons, but that doesn`t justify false advertising.
"Some" people want to roleplay in Mass Effect, wow that is a surprise. Where did they get that idea? No need to cater to that tiny target audience. 
Oh wait, Dragon Age: Origins sold better than ME2 and put DA2 into utter shame. Must be a big group of confused people who accidently bought a roleplaying game even long after word of mouth got arround.

You call the complainers "anti fans" of the game, yet these are the fans who love the franchise and don`t want it to move into a different direction. Is it so hard to believe that changing direction and feel within a trillogy can cause problems?

Modifié par DaJe, 03 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[Daywalker315]

Chrumpek wrote...

To mr 'Daywalker315'

Don't want to argue just point out one fact to your argument (Go ahead Joker vs We are here Joker).
To me it is difference because in real life when you go on about, you interact not only with people by telling them information but also using appropriate tone and words to express it.

Think about it, for some RP player that like to get into the story it does matter a lot how they express same information or opinion.

Now onto the whole revived discussion again, you people need to realize one huge principal in one world. When it comes to human beings and living, more options is always better.
There is no arguing about it, it's not saying 'more' is better but the more options people the better they can choose what to do//get etc.
Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

I don't want to argue either but if you want choice all the way down to everything like the Joker comment and want them to actually differ from each other, I don't know how to help you. I fear the RP crowd expects far too much out of a game like this.

[Jacen987]

Chrumpek wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

Interesting you should bring this up.  Did you catch that Casey Hudson interview a couple of days ago.  
2 Quotes:  
  A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'  
 Most worryingly, CH says of the different modes  ' It literally is the same game for everybody'

That's my point, we got 3 options of gameplay, why strip RPG from options ot choose dialogue? If soemone doesn't want it he got 'option' to go action mode without it. If soemone wants to have lil choice from time to time, he got spacebar.

If I want to control everything shepard is saying, I can't the option was taken out, which means we are taking steps backwards and that is never good for progress in any way.

Now, that makes no sence, whatsover. First you have no proof anything
was taken out. Yet, anyway. Second, the space button is not the same,
for people who want to skip interctaion with NPC altogher and just have a
shooter with Cutscenes. (Why the heck am i defending them.... and i wonder, how leveling would work. And thridly, Shepard will aways be confined to a pretty determined set of events,..... so you wont always see the option for him to express his view on them, or his attitudes toward NPCs.

[Rickin10]

Daywalker315 wrote...


I don't want to argue either but if you want choice all the way down to everything like the Joker comment and want them to actually differ from each other, I don't know how to help you. I fear the RP crowd expects far too much out of a game like this.

I'm nothing like what you might call a 'hardcore rpg fan'  I play and enjoy all kinds of games, .  All I expect from ME3 is not to water down the elements that made the series great.

[Ghost-621]

Rickin10 wrote...

I understand what you're both saying, and I sincerely hope you're correct. However, all the evidence I've seen and heard indicates that the rpg mode has been severely compromised.

To all BDF, this isn't some stupid Internet contest to us. We are fans of Mass Effect, like you. We hope we are wrong, but we are not turning a blind eye to the things Bioware has said and done regarding ME3.

What has been shown in the last four months has been agonizing. The more we see, the more we see of shooter gameplay and less of actual story and RPG mechanics that made Mass Effect, Mass Effect.

[Wulfram]

Jacen987 wrote...

OOOKK, where exactly in the earth demo, did you feel, you were robbed of your charakterisation. Mind you havent seen much footage, after Earth part ends.

1.  Shepard's forced to be pally with Vega
2.  Shepard's forced to be pally with Anderson
3.  Shepard's forced to resent the Alliance's treatment of her
4.  Shepard can't react much to Ash/Kaidan (Might be addressed later, if so OK)
5.  Shepard has to act like a dick to the committee
6.  Shepard has to deliver that horrible "not about strategy or tactics line"
7.  When Anderson finally suggests a sensible course of action, to try to get support from the rest of the galaxy, Shepard has to resist the idea.

[Chrumpek]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

To mr 'Daywalker315'

Don't want to argue just point out one fact to your argument (Go ahead Joker vs We are here Joker).
To me it is difference because in real life when you go on about, you interact not only with people by telling them information but also using appropriate tone and words to express it.

Think about it, for some RP player that like to get into the story it does matter a lot how they express same information or opinion.

Now onto the whole revived discussion again, you people need to realize one huge principal in one world. When it comes to human beings and living, more options is always better.
There is no arguing about it, it's not saying 'more' is better but the more options people the better they can choose what to do//get etc.
Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

I don't want to argue either but if you want choice all the way down to everything like the Joker comment and want them to actually differ from each other, I don't know how to help you. I fear the RP crowd expects far too much out of a game like this.

Elaborate on why do you think so? It was like that in the previous games and was stripped. You still gained the option to choose different mode and be done with it.

[DatIrishFella]

I remember about a year ago, when people were screaming for more RPG elements, better customisation, loot, better XP system etc and the only thing that I feared about ME 3 was, what if they streamlined the dialogue, I don't know why I thought up such an extravagant concept, but I did.

In my mind, if ME 3 was like ME 2 I would have being a happy camper, but it seems that my worst fear about the game is potentially being realised.

The dialogue wheel is what makes ME stand out from any other game I've played, why would they do this? Why would they reduce it to only a few "here or there" moments?

Did any of the reviews mention this?

Modifié par DatIrishFella, 03 mars 2012 - 04:49 .