2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Daywalker315]

DaJe wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

And there is the problem. Mass Effect was advertised as roleplaying game from the start. The first game would have almost no auto dialog (or did it have any?). Maybe you are part of the group who bought a roleplaying game for different reasons, but that doesn`t justify false advertising.
"Some" people want to roleplay in Mass Effect, wow that is a surprise. Where did they get that idea? No need to cater to that tiny target audience. 
Oh wait, Dragon Age: Origins sold better than ME2 and put DA2 into utter shame. Must be a big group of confused people who accidently bought a roleplaying game even long after word of mouth got arround.

You call the complainers "anti fans" of the game, yet these are the fans who love the franchise and don`t want it to move into a different direction. Is it so hard to believe that changing direction and feel within a trillogy can cause problems?

First off, I said he was "anti-fans" to him because he said "some Bioware fans are ..." and to be honest, attacking BioWare fans leads me to believe he is anti-the people who like ME3. Not rocket science there.

Also, there's more to a roleplaying game than just choosing dialogue, if you ask me. Important, sure, but it's not the only aspect of an RPG. Not to mention, they've made no secret about the game morphing over the years from ME1 to ME3 so there's no false advertising going on here.

[Rickin10]

There have been no reviews yet. Well, a couple from abroad but...

[Ghost-621]

DatIrishFella wrote...

I remember about a year ago, when people were screaming for more RPG elements, better customisation, loot, better XP system etc and the only thing that I feared about ME 3 was, what if they streamlined the dialogue, I don't know why I thought up such an extravagant concept, but I did.

In my mind, if ME 3 was like ME 2 I would have being a happy camper, but it seems that my worst fear about the game is potentially being realised.

The dialogue wheel is what makes ME stand out from any other game I've played, why would they do this? Why would they reduce it to only a few "here or there" moments?

Did any of the reviews mention this?

It was a foreign concept to us all in the beginning, that Bioware would stomp on the fingers and toes of their fanbase and their requests so that they may turn a space opera into a gears of war clone.

That was a long time ago. 
The big name reviewers are all paid off. We have to rely on eachother for true, honest opinions.

[DatIrishFella]

Even a quick reply from someone from BioWare would alleviate some of the fears but they don't seem to be bothered.

[Chrumpek]

Jacen987 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...


That's my point, we got 3 options of gameplay, why strip RPG from options ot choose dialogue? If soemone doesn't want it he got 'option' to go action mode without it. If soemone wants to have lil choice from time to time, he got spacebar.

If I want to control everything shepard is saying, I can't the option was taken out, which means we are taking steps backwards and that is never good for progress in any way.

Now, that makes no sence, whatsover. First you have no proof anything
was taken out. Yet, anyway. Second, the space button is not the same,
for people who want to skip interctaion with NPC altogher and just have a
shooter with Cutscenes. (Why the heck am i defending them.... and i wonder, how leveling would work. And thridly, Shepard will aways be confined to a pretty determined set of events,..... so you wont always see the option for him to express his view on them, or his attitudes toward NPCs.

Erm on the contrary, I have the evidence - intro level form the third installment vs the 2 intros from the already out games.
Secondly there is an 'option' called action mode which is exactly for the group of people you mentioned lemme quote you "
for people who want to skip interctaion with NPC altogher and just have a
 shooter with Cutscenes".
Lastly, the story is pre-determined set of events that you 'could' approach and give depth in previous games, the way you wanted.

In addition, I cannot answer why you are defending them, you should know it yourself.

Modifié par Chrumpek, 03 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[Ianamus]

If they are adding action mode that means that they aren't expecting all players to even have dialogue in the first place, and would need to include a lot of non-option dialogue. So it makes sense that they would tone down the number of dialogue choices overall.

It's why I've been against this "Action mode" as soon as I heard about it. People said that I was being stupid because "It was only adding options". As much as I don't want to be, I think I may have been right after all.

[Wulfram]

DatIrishFella wrote...

Even a quick reply from someone from BioWare would alleviate some of the fears but they don't seem to be bothered.

Well, they can't deny the truth this close to release.  All they could do is explain their reasoning for doing this - and they probably know that this might put people off, so it's better for sales to just leave the complaining to an easily overlooked thread on the forums.

[Sargerus]

WTF is up with Liara's voice... just doesn't sound like her....
And the animations in the cutscenes are... Weird...
I'm getting really worried now...

Modifié par Sargerus, 03 mars 2012 - 05:00 .

[Ghost-621]

EJ107 wrote...

If they are adding action mode that means that they aren't expecting all players to even have dialogue in the first place, and would need to include a lot of non-option dialogue. So it makes sense that they would tone down the number of dialogue choices overall.

It's why I've been against this "Action mode" as soon as I heard about it. People said that I was being stupid because "It was only adding options". As much as I don't want to be, I think I may have been right after all.

It's funny how prophetic we really were, EJ107.

[RSX Titan]

Daywalker315 wrote...

DaJe wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...
Isn't it remotely possible that there are a third set of those auto-responses based on Alignment centered on people with lots of Paragon and Renegade points? A more neutral set? There are 40k lines of dialogue in this game. Far more than ME2. They have to be somewhere.

Ultimately, this comes down to the fact that I think you can have an RPG that you don't have to micro-manage every syllable the guy says. This isn't The Sims Effect 3. You still make plenty of dialogue choices (as my reposting of Team Vegas comment above would indicate) and you have control over leveling up abilities, weapon customization, major plot choices, who to romance, and on and on. I don't mind that the dialogue auto-selects some things. In reality, I imagine a few of the things he said on his own were things that would have belonged on the "Investigation" side of the wheel anyway, which means most of you would have selected the very same things he said. I don't see the problem.

I swear some Bioware fans are like beaten women. "But but he only hits me because he loves me!", "Bioware only take choices away because they arent needed!", "Demo's and previews arent the full game!", Bioware only hurt me because they love me!"

Come on guys wake up.

You really wanna go there? I've played the demo. I've watched the GameSpot footage. I enjoy BioWare games (though not all of them) for a lot of reasons. The overall narrative, the characters, the epic feel, and lately, even the 3PS gameplay is pretty good. What I don't exclusively play them for is the ability to RP and think to myself, I AM Commander Shepard because I can choose his every sentence. Some people do but that has never been the cornerstone of why I like ME. Hence why I'm not upset about it now.

To compare someone who likes a game franchise to beaten women is insulting to say the least. My mom was a victim of sexual assault when she was young and I don't appreciate it in the slightest. You can dislike it if you want but ultimately, if you're so anti-fans of the game, why are you even here? Does comparing beaten women to BioWare fans enrich your life?

And there is the problem. Mass Effect was advertised as roleplaying game from the start. The first game would have almost no auto dialog (or did it have any?). Maybe you are part of the group who bought a roleplaying game for different reasons, but that doesn`t justify false advertising.
"Some" people want to roleplay in Mass Effect, wow that is a surprise. Where did they get that idea? No need to cater to that tiny target audience. 
Oh wait, Dragon Age: Origins sold better than ME2 and put DA2 into utter shame. Must be a big group of confused people who accidently bought a roleplaying game even long after word of mouth got arround.

You call the complainers "anti fans" of the game, yet these are the fans who love the franchise and don`t want it to move into a different direction. Is it so hard to believe that changing direction and feel within a trillogy can cause problems?

First off, I said he was "anti-fans" to him because he said "some Bioware fans are ..." and to be honest, attacking BioWare fans leads me to believe he is anti-the people who like ME3. Not rocket science there.

Also, there's more to a roleplaying game than just choosing dialogue, if you ask me. Important, sure, but it's not the only aspect of an RPG. Not to mention, they've made no secret about the game morphing over the years from ME1 to ME3 so there's no false advertising going on here.

I've been saying this for years. I don't believe ME1 was what Bioware intended to make. They screwed up combat so bad they had to revert to their old formula. ME2 is much closer to the Hybrid that they wanted to make. ME3 will be more of the same with a few more RPG elements added back in since fans went ballistic. If you pay attention and read between the lines, you can see that Bioware never wanted to make Baldur's Gate in Space or KOTOR 3. Fans just can't accept it. I know it took me a long time to come to grips with it.

[Someone With Mass]

You know, there are times when Shepard should act more like the military commander he is, instead of some rebellious teenager. Mouthing off against other military officers just for the sake of being able to do it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

His character is pre-set, no matter how much people say that they're roleplaying him to be something else.

That's why he always is an Alliance officer in ME1, that's why he always is working with Cerberus in ME2.

[Wulfram]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You know, there are times when Shepard should act more like the military commander he is, instead of some rebellious teenager. Mouthing off against other military officers just for the sake of being able to do it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I would have loved the option to act like a military commander with the Defence Committee.

But Bioware didn't want me to have that option.

[Sargerus]

Ghost-621 wrote...

DatIrishFella wrote...

I remember about a year ago, when people were screaming for more RPG elements, better customisation, loot, better XP system etc and the only thing that I feared about ME 3 was, what if they streamlined the dialogue, I don't know why I thought up such an extravagant concept, but I did.

In my mind, if ME 3 was like ME 2 I would have being a happy camper, but it seems that my worst fear about the game is potentially being realised.

The dialogue wheel is what makes ME stand out from any other game I've played, why would they do this? Why would they reduce it to only a few "here or there" moments?

Did any of the reviews mention this?

It was a foreign concept to us all in the beginning, that Bioware would stomp on the fingers and toes of their fanbase and their requests so that they may turn a space opera into a gears of war clone.

That was a long time ago. 
The big name reviewers are all paid off. We have to rely on eachother for true, honest opinions.

The only opinion i care about is mine.

[Jacen987]

Wulfram wrote...

Jacen987 wrote...

OOOKK, where exactly in the earth demo, did you feel, you were robbed of your charakterisation. Mind you havent seen much footage, after Earth part ends.

1.  Shepard's forced to be pally with Vega
2.  Shepard's forced to be pally with Anderson
3.  Shepard's forced to resent the Alliance's treatment of her
4.  Shepard can't react much to Ash/Kaidan (Might be addressed later, if so OK)
5.  Shepard has to act like a dick to the committee
6.  Shepard has to deliver that horrible "not about strategy or tactics line"
7.  When Anderson finally suggests a sensible course of action, to try to get support from the rest of the galaxy, Shepard has to resist the idea.

1. Pally? With Vega? Its a generally curtios attitude. Veda admires Shepard, and why the heck not. And Shepard's "Whatever"

Its like Vega didnt even matter, he was there. Shepard was just curtious. He doesnt have any reason to hate him, or act like a a d**k there. Do you have any reason to hate him?

2.WoW your kidding. Anderson has been Shepard's Mentor form the very first game. Shepard "honeslty" admires the man... At worst, if you go with Udina(why would you do that? P/R) , Shep's apathetic to him. See no reason, for him to have a d**k option.

3.OK. Paragon or Renagede, i can see that happening in every outcome. Shepards a hero, he ones again stops the invasion and they groud him/punish him for it. Besides, never felt quite as resentment.

4. Yeep. Besides he was in a hurry/expected. And he did react. So did they.

5. Ha// Hes been warning them for years. The commitie, udina, council are all fair game. Their useless and ignorant.. That never changes. No matter who your charkter is.

6. Ok, somewhat agree. Though it seems appropriate. Could have given him options there....

7. Of course he does. He wants to stay and fight. Wouldnt you, its earth. Whatever/ whoever your Shepard is, his motivations have always been, to save people. And now he has to run away. Or sit ,on the ramp, helpless wantchng everything he worked for, to be for nothing.

I mean you could have too options there/ .... technically.... Go to the Citadel, or stay on Earth and fight, but since that would mean 2 different games?

All that said, they could have added a few more lines for cosmetic purposes. But ask yourself this, how many lines did Shepard have during the SR1s destruction. Because that's, what this earth segment was. An intro.

Modifié par Jacen987, 03 mars 2012 - 05:12 .

[Chrumpek]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You know, there are times when Shepard should act more like the military commander he is, instead of some rebellious teenager. Mouthing off against other military officers just for the sake of being able to do it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

His character is pre-set, no matter how much people say that they're roleplaying him to be something else.

That's why he always is an Alliance officer in ME1, that's why he always is working with Cerberus in ME2.

That's what 'your' shepard can or rather could do if you choose so, act like a soldier or a rebel with an attitude. Seriously it's sometimes so shallow in here.

[Squallypo]

lol my brother is gonna make fun of me with ME 3 telling me how shooter game has turned out to be ala Gears of War style. he did that when ME 2 came out, with 3 hes gonna be worst bah ¬¬

[DatIrishFella]

Wulfram wrote...

DatIrishFella wrote...

Even a quick reply from someone from BioWare would alleviate some of the fears but they don't seem to be bothered.

Well, they can't deny the truth this close to release.  All they could do is explain their reasoning for doing this - and they probably know that this might put people off, so it's better for sales to just leave the complaining to an easily overlooked thread on the forums.

Suppose so, I'm obviously not going cancel my CE. It's funny, I remember reading the likes of Ghost-621 and PoliteAssassin's posts and laughing when they were talking about how ME3 was almost auto dialogue after auto dialogue and now I feel like an idiot. 

I was looking forward to playing my 6 Sheps in different variations but it seems they are all going to be near identical. 

Modifié par DatIrishFella, 03 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[Jacen987]

DatIrishFella wrote...

Even a quick reply from someone from BioWare would alleviate some of the fears but they don't seem to be bothered.

Surprized? Worst CS ever. Espetailly on TOR?

[Daywalker315]

Chrumpek wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

To mr 'Daywalker315'

Don't want to argue just point out one fact to your argument (Go ahead Joker vs We are here Joker).
To me it is difference because in real life when you go on about, you interact not only with people by telling them information but also using appropriate tone and words to express it.

Think about it, for some RP player that like to get into the story it does matter a lot how they express same information or opinion.

Now onto the whole revived discussion again, you people need to realize one huge principal in one world. When it comes to human beings and living, more options is always better.
There is no arguing about it, it's not saying 'more' is better but the more options people the better they can choose what to do//get etc.
Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

I don't want to argue either but if you want choice all the way down to everything like the Joker comment and want them to actually differ from each other, I don't know how to help you. I fear the RP crowd expects far too much out of a game like this.

Elaborate on why do you think so? It was like that in the previous games and was stripped. You still gained the option to choose different mode and be done with it.

Notice I said for the Joker comments to actually "differ from each other". In the first two games, if they gave you options when Joker calls, they're slightly different in terms of tone but it leads to the EXACT same dialogue from Joker himself, no matter what you say. In that case, it's not a completely necessary thing to have except for the RP'ers that want control over every sentence for tone. It doesn't affect the narrative or the reaction from the NPC you're talking to in any way, so it's not essential IMO.

If I had to choose every sentence and Shep couldn't take what I say once and roll with it for 3 or 4 lines based on what I chose, it would get a little tiresome anyway. The conversation doesn't flow when it stops that much. Even ME1 and 2 did this a little bit. It wasn't always just pick a dialogue choice, say a sentence, pick another choice, another sentence, and so on.

[Dragoonlordz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

You know, there are times when Shepard should act more like the military commander he is, instead of some rebellious teenager. Mouthing off against other military officers just for the sake of being able to do it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

His character is pre-set, no matter how much people say that they're roleplaying him to be something else.

That's why he always is an Alliance officer in ME1, that's why he always is working with Cerberus in ME2.

A person is determined from how he reacts, what his actions are and what he or she says and does in response to the situations he finds him/herself in.

If remove the ability to forge his personality as a player using selections and responses via dialogue then it becomes canon. If you want canon read the books, watch a movie or remove the ability to choose dialogue in first place but don't half ass the approach with constant decline into canon after allowing others to have much more control prior. Start as you mean to go on or start again from scratch. The best place to force canon and strip back role playing for the player is not last of a trilogy, it maybe better for the developer because requires less effort but not for the player.

Now I will find out for myself just how much they have removed role playing elements from ME3 but from what I have read, watched and played at this stage it looks like they may have taken and stripped it back too far after promising to bring back more role playing elements present in the first game vs second. Having a non canon (your Shepard vs theirs) is what made this franchise special, without that you just have another linear shooter.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[Chrumpek]

@Daywalker315

Thank you for your opinion, I don't agree with it but I respect it.

I'd like to choose everything that my character says so that I can feel that's me and not just AI or puppet that does what I tell him to do.

Thus it would be welcome to see both options of playstyle, one fitting your and one mines the more options the better.

[Il Divo]

Jacen987 wrote...

7. Of course he does. He wants to stay and fight. Wouldnt you, its earth. Whatever/ whoever your Shepard is, his motivations have always been, to save people. And now he has to run away. Or sit ,on the ramp, helpless wantchng everything he worked for, to be for nothing.

And my Shepard could realize that the best way to help Earth would be to build Alliances. Any RPG requires the player to buy into the role the game provides. In KotOR, the war with the Sith is important to the protagonist, in DA:O, the Darkspawn is a critical threat to the Greywardens. As players, we are expected to buy into the game's premise.

I can buy into Shepard considering humanity and saving the galaxy important. However, I'd rather avoid the game telling me what my character has to feel, beyond that. My Shepard's motivation has always been to save humanity. My character's mentality in doing that should be up to me, as much as possible. I should be allowed to show pain at the thought of abandoning Earth, or resolve because I realize what defeating the Reapers entails.

Modifié par Il Divo, 03 mars 2012 - 05:22 .

[Jacen987]

Daywalker315 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

Daywalker315 wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

To mr 'Daywalker315'

Don't want to argue just point out one fact to your argument (Go ahead Joker vs We are here Joker).
To me it is difference because in real life when you go on about, you interact not only with people by telling them information but also using appropriate tone and words to express it.

Think about it, for some RP player that like to get into the story it does matter a lot how they express same information or opinion.

Now onto the whole revived discussion again, you people need to realize one huge principal in one world. When it comes to human beings and living, more options is always better.
There is no arguing about it, it's not saying 'more' is better but the more options people the better they can choose what to do//get etc.
Stripping options is never a good thing and sorry but it's not my problem that some people given too many choices start getting lost and confused.

I don't want to argue either but if you want choice all the way down to everything like the Joker comment and want them to actually differ from each other, I don't know how to help you. I fear the RP crowd expects far too much out of a game like this.

Elaborate on why do you think so? It was like that in the previous games and was stripped. You still gained the option to choose different mode and be done with it.

Notice I said for the Joker comments to actually "differ from each other". In the first two games, if they gave you options when Joker calls, they're slightly different in terms of tone but it leads to the EXACT same dialogue from Joker himself, no matter what you say. In that case, it's not a completely necessary thing to have except for the RP'ers that want control over every sentence for tone. It doesn't affect the narrative or the reaction from the NPC you're talking to in any way, so it's not essential IMO.

If I had to choose every sentence and Shep couldn't take what I say once and roll with it for 3 or 4 lines based on what I chose, it would get a little tiresome anyway. The conversation doesn't flow when it stops that much. Even ME1 and 2 did this a little bit. It wasn't always just pick a dialogue choice, say a sentence, pick another choice, another sentence, and so on.

Well to RPers this tonenality does matter. It gives context to, where Shepard comes from and why he acts like that. It definately enriches the expirience. So NO, its not pointless.

If its gone, its indeed a minus in the game favor. Id still give it up, in a second, if it meant proper exploration and an actaul item system.

[Wulfram]

Jacen987 wrote...

1. Pally? With Vega? Its a generally curtios attitude. Veda admires Shepard, and why the heck not. And Shepard's "Whatever"

Its like Vega didnt even matter, he was there. Shepard was just curtious. He doesnt have any reason to hate him, or act like a a d**k there. Do you have any reason to hate him?

Shepard isn't necessarily the sort to get friendly with just anyone

2.WoW your kidding. Anderson has been Shepard's Mentor form the very first game. Shepard "honeslty" admires the man... At worst, if you go with Udina(why would you do that? P/R) , Shep's apathetic to him. See no reason, for him to have a d**k option.

Not having a totally rude option is in accordance with previous games, though I'd like one to reflect my Paragon Shep's distaste for the Alliance's coup following the death of the Council.

But the very friendly attitude we have in the demo should not be forced on us.  And that doesn't mean

3.OK. Paragon or Renagede, i can see that happening in every outcome. Shepards a hero, he ones again stops the invasion and they groud him/punish him for it. Besides, never felt quite as resentment.

Some Shepards would resent it - some probably more violently than Shep does in the demo. But some would understand, indeed some would be guilt ridden themselves for killing 100s of 1000s of people.

5. Ha// Hes been warning them for years. The commitie, udina, council are all fair game. Their useless and ignorant.. That never changes. No matter who your charkter is.

True politeness means being polite even to idiots.  And being rude, posturing and trying to show off how awesome you are doesn't actually help any.

7. Of course he does. He wants to stay and fight. Wouldnt you, its earth. Whatever/ whoever your Shepard is, his motivations have always been, to save people. And now he has to run away. Or sit ,on the ramp, helpless wantchng everything he worked for, to be for nothing.

I mean you could have too options there/ .... technically.... Go to the Citadel, or stay on Earth and fight, but since that would mean 2 different games?

I'd want to do something which might actually help.  Which means getting off earth.

You are indeed going to have to leave earth whatever, but that's no reason to force Shepard to be characterised as resisting the idea.  It's appropriate for some renegades perhaps, who tend to be dismissive of aliens.  It makes no sense for someone who has been working to unite the various species against the reapers from the beginning and still sees themselves as a loyal Spectre

All that said, they could have added a few more lines for cosmetic purposes. But ask yourself this, how many lines did Shepard have during the SR1s destruction. Because that's, what this earth segment was. An intro.

It's not about the amount of lines Shepard has, it's about who chooses them.  I'd be happy if Shepard spoke less in the intro, really.

[Daywalker315]

Chrumpek wrote...

@Daywalker315

Thank you for your opinion, I don't agree with it but I respect it.

I'd like to choose everything that my character says so that I can feel that's me and not just AI or puppet that does what I tell him to do.

Thus it would be welcome to see both options of playstyle, one fitting your and one mines the more options the better.

I respect your opinion as well and I'm glad we could disagree without arguing. It seems hard to do around here. I would only add that I'm an optimist, so my suggestion would be that if you have an open mind, just play the game on RPG mode and judge the entire game as a whole. Hopefully it will surprise you and you'll feel just as in touch with your character as ever.