2656 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

tichard wrote...

android654 wrote...

...Oh a piece of important history with no options to investigate. Not good at all.

Hmmmm..... it's .... depressing

It's something rather important too and they went into detail but there were some questions I know I would've asked, but no option to do so. Interesting choice.

[jbg927]

why would they do this?

[FoxShadowblade]

gabe2gg wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...

Oh no, not a scripted conversation!

Seriously, this is what people are getting agitated about? I'm surprised, the Gears forums were ripe with trolls spamming spoilers the days before release.

..I'm oddly contented with this argument, and a tad fascinated.

I guess you didn't play the first game.

No I did, I just lack the hardcore RPG feelings of the general BSN crowd. I don't mind a scripted story on a character I was able to shape for two games. 

And what is that even supposed to mean? You guess I didn't play the first game? I did, I played it after playing ME2, the first game made me want to stab my eyes out except for the parts where I didn't have to make an obvious paragon/renegade dialogue "choice" just to get enough points to convince Wrex not to kill himself. Scripted scenes for Shepard work well, as Renegade/Paragon Shepards differ in methods, but at the core remain a character that can be defined.

The first game had bad combat, inventory and exploration, but the scripted parts of the story were so amazing that I would rank ME1 my third favorite game. Obviously ME2 takes the second slot and ME3, the third.

And as BioWare's last game with Cmd Shepard, I say they should have more than a little influence on how he acts. People act like Shepard is their's, he isn't. He's more BioWare's character than anything. If they want a more definite character, so be it. It'll work well, I have no doubt.

[txgoldrush]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@txgoldrush - If he's predefined, then how come the player could choose if he's religious or not in ME1? He's predefined to a certain extent, his past, but that's it. What they've done in ME3 is take all control away from the player. It's a stark contrast from the first two games.Watch the stream yourself, and see.

-Polite

And the player can choose Adam Jansen's views on transhumanism...........so

[SealKudos]

jbg927 wrote...

why would they do this?

Laziness?  For better conversational flow?  Laziness?  To accomodate players who enjoy action more?  Laziness?  To get rid of the pesky "3-choices-1-line" problem?  Laziness?

[Maria Caliban]

txgoldrush wrote...

Then explain to me how Shep isn't predefined? Wait , he is. He has an origin and a history. Just because you have more freedom to choose it doesn't mean Bioware didn't predefine him.

He has three possible origins, two genders, a slew of love interests, and little personality beyond 'military badass.'

Sherpard is not as undefined as the PC in Kindgoms of Alamar or Skyrim, yes, but the Cmd. isn't as predefined as Geralt or Adam Jesson. She falls into that middle area that many BioWare protagonists occupy.

[android654]

There's one place so far where all of your dialogue options are decided, but you're not saying much and the context of the dialogue couldn't be decided for you. Shepard's dialogue has improved a lot though. They get some points for that.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Gotta say Divo, I'm starting to like some of your posts.

-Polite

[Il Divo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gotta say Divo, I'm starting to like some of your posts.

-Polite

Indeed. It's still two days early, but if you'd like, you can start saying "I told you so". 

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 03:51 .

[jbg927]

kotor's main character was predefined yet we chose every line of dialogue every time

[jbg927]

double post

Modifié par jbg927, 04 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[txgoldrush]

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Then explain to me how Shep isn't predefined? Wait , he is. He has an origin and a history. Just because you have more freedom to choose it doesn't mean Bioware didn't predefine him.

Tell me, is alternating paragon and renegade choices consistant, or how in ME2 he can be cruel to some of his crew mates but not to his old ones even if he was mean to them in the first game. He was far from a consistant character unless you spam the paragon/renegade/neutral choice, with neutral breaking your characters persuasion ability.

I'm going to be blunt: who gives a crap?

Let me, as the player, worry about character consistency. Let Bioware worry about providing enough dialogue options for me to create a character and expand his personality through conversation. It's not their job to decide that my Shepard is an ass to everyone I meet because I happen to fall in with renegade decisions. I can make those decisions for myself.

And here is the problem, the flaws of the first two was that Bioware overextended the concept of Renegade, Renegade is supposed to mean justify the means, not be an ass to everyone. Its an old Bioware problem that they need to get rid of.

If I wanted to play a nice renegade, I can't, or a mean paragon, I end up neutral screwing myself.

[G3rman]

jbg927 wrote...

double post

They didn't have to hire a VA for the main character though, made it a lot easier.

[android654]

txgoldrush wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Then explain to me how Shep isn't predefined? Wait , he is. He has an origin and a history. Just because you have more freedom to choose it doesn't mean Bioware didn't predefine him.

Tell me, is alternating paragon and renegade choices consistant, or how in ME2 he can be cruel to some of his crew mates but not to his old ones even if he was mean to them in the first game. He was far from a consistant character unless you spam the paragon/renegade/neutral choice, with neutral breaking your characters persuasion ability.

I'm going to be blunt: who gives a crap?

Let me, as the player, worry about character consistency. Let Bioware worry about providing enough dialogue options for me to create a character and expand his personality through conversation. It's not their job to decide that my Shepard is an ass to everyone I meet because I happen to fall in with renegade decisions. I can make those decisions for myself.

And here is the problem, the flaws of the first two was that Bioware overextended the concept of Renegade, Renegade is supposed to mean justify the means, not be an ass to everyone. Its an old Bioware problem that they need to get rid of.

If I wanted to play a nice renegade, I can't, or a mean paragon, I end up neutral screwing myself.

Thats why you have the choice! So you can alternate between them. Be a renegade with the enemy and the situations that warrant it and a paragon with your crew and allies. Removing those options doesn't make it easier to reach that goal, it makes them impossible.

[jbg927]

G3rman wrote...

jbg927 wrote...

double post

They didn't have to hire a VA for the main character though, made it a lot easier.

it worked fine in me1 and me2

[N00blet666]

android654 wrote...

There's one place so far where all of your dialogue options are decided, but you're not saying much and the context of the dialogue couldn't be decided for you. Shepard's dialogue has improved a lot though. They get some points for that.

Well at least thats some what of a good sign. 

[jbg927]

G3rman wrote...

jbg927 wrote...

double post

They didn't have to hire a VA for the main character though, made it a lot easier.

it worked fine in me1 and me2

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

And here is the problem, the flaws of the first two was that Bioware overextended the concept of Renegade, Renegade is supposed to mean justify the means, not be an ass to everyone. Its an old Bioware problem that they need to get rid of.

If I wanted to play a nice renegade, I can't, or a mean paragon, I end up neutral screwing myself.

You'll have to define nice renegade. It's possible to kill the Rachni Queen, murder Shiala, intimidate Saren into blowing his brains out, while still being a nice guy to my crew. Role-playing systems can allow my character to take both Renegade and Paragon actions, for different reasons.

Bioware's weak handling of Paragon vs. Renegade (very similar to their mistakes regarding Open Palm vs. Closed Fist) is a different issue from the autodialogue problem. The autodialogue can still be inconsistent with my Shepard's acts in the last two games. The issue is my involvement in the events of the narrative.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[bullz3ye]

If most dialogue is different based on your renegade or paragon then the choices are still there, and bioware said a couple years ago that they discovered investigate was not used very much in the mass effect 2 stats, so maybe they found a way to spread out the backstory and make it more natural to the conversations?

[Bawseee]

Watching this foreign stream and it's at the part where Wrex jumps down at the salarian base to get the female Krogan. This looks different than the demo, there are more dialogue options here and overall this mission looks different. 

I've watched for a good 30 minutes now and the dialogue is NOT that bad. It may seem a little cut, but it isn't that drastic. Close to ME2 dialogue. Unless something awful happens like not being able to converse with squad members on the Normandy, I won't be upset. 

Not watching anymore, too many spoilers. 

[Jaron Oberyn]

I've been watching since mars, i've counted 10 choices max from there to where they are now. Been about 2 missions since then.

-Polite

[N00blet666]

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And here is the problem, the flaws of the first two was that Bioware overextended the concept of Renegade, Renegade is supposed to mean justify the means, not be an ass to everyone. Its an old Bioware problem that they need to get rid of.

If I wanted to play a nice renegade, I can't, or a mean paragon, I end up neutral screwing myself.

You'll have to define nice renegade. It's possible to kill the Rachni Queen, murder Shiala, intimidate Saren into blowing his brains out, while still being a nice guy to my crew. Role-playing systems can allow my character to take both Renegade and Paragon actions, for different reasons.

Bioware's weak handling of Paragon vs. Renegade (very similar to their mistakes regarding Open Palm vs. Closed Fist) is a different issue from the autodialogue problem. The autodialogue can still be inconsistent with my Shepard's acts in the last two games. The issue is my involvement in the events of the narrative.

Yeah Divo I agree with you. I play renegade and I was a dick to everyone except the squadmates I liked. This made me feel like I was incontrol of the way my character functioned.

[Comsky159]

I love how the guys in the chatroom are having a political discussion on multiculturalism while the guy plays the first full viewing of Me3.
classic frenchies; gotta love 'em.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Il Divo wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Gotta say Divo, I'm starting to like some of your posts.

-Polite

Indeed. It's still two days early, but if you'd like, you can start saying "I told you so". 

At this point I really don't even want to anymore. 

-Polite

[Comsky159]

I love how the guys in the chatroom are having a political debate on religious and multicultural issues while the guy plays the first full viewing of Me3.
classic frenchies; gotta love 'em.

Modifié par Comsky159, 04 mars 2012 - 04:04 .