2656 réponses à ce sujet

[gearseffect]

Yeah the autodailogue is gonna kill me.

I think that the game was made with action mode and RPG mode was added in for the true ME fans.

Given that way you don't have miles of cut scenes that take place when you talk to people.

TO think I liked the leaked character scripts so much better

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, the plot and story are always first, the dialogue options comes second.

For example, Ultima games have a very low impact dialogue system, its questions and answers only, no choices of any kind. But still the storytelling is excellent and genre defining. In fact early WRPGs were more linear.

Games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim have dialogue options, but their stories are awful. Choices were poorly done, the writing was terrible, etc..

And in KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Baldur's Gate 2, KotOR 2, the stories were great. And they didn't need to tell me what my character's motivation was. In an interactive RPG, I expect interaction to be first and foremost, similar to the previous two installments. If you don't mind, wonderful. However, that is not my interest in playing Bioware narratives, to watch a character act completely against my interests.

Games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim have crappy stories because they don't have a focused narrative and because in general the writing is terrible. I have very little interest in what worked for Ultima. Active vs. passive story-telling are completely different affairs.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 05:00 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

[BillsVengenace]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Uncharted is a rubbish on-rails scripted-event ridden C-rate knocked off B-rate Indiana Jones knock offs.

Le fv<k is BioWare doing wanting to be like it?

Quite a few people like it though so that's just your opinion.

Quite a lot of people don't know any better. 

Perhaps you're one of them?

Who knows; that's the beauty of opinions.

Are you denying that they are simply a couple of hours of a rubbish Indiana Jones knock off plot (with a d-bag of a protaganist) strung together with linear, scripted-event heavy, hand-holding segments of "gameplay"?  Are you actually denying this? 

But oooh, it looks pretty. 

The modern gamer is an idiot.  Flash some shiny script event sequences at him/her and they'll claim it was the greatest thing mankind has ever achieved. 

[jbg927]

txgoldrush wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And by game terms you are a nuetral or a slight paragon...you can't charm and intimidate, etc. It doesn't reflect your beliefs. DA2 does this better (not completely well, just much better) because its system isn't tied to a morality system, I successfully made a aggressive but good aligned Hawke for instance.

In game terms, I still managed to almost completely max out my renegade bar, including my ME1 import and by choosing certain ME2 abilities (level 4 character class). My paragon actions/responses were mostly related to how I interacted with my crew (Ex: Being nice to Miranda following her LM).

The autodialogue may be inconsistant from the last two games because the last two games were so inconsistant. The problem simply was you got more paragon points for being nice to people than by making key galaxy affecting paragon decisions....sure the decisions themselves are worth more points than a single conversation, however, the sum of the convos trumps that big decision.

But the auto dialogue doesn't even solve the problem- it just adds a whole separate layer to it. Morality has always been a problem for Bioware games, but the better solution is to fix (or if necessary, remove) the morality system. I'd rather accept the flaws of role-playing inconsistency, which has always plagued the genre, than take on a protagonist who reacts in conversation almost completely without impart from the player. Playing a character vs. watching a character.

No, the plot and story are always first, the dialogue options comes second.

For example, Ultima games have a very low impact dialogue system, its questions and answers only, no choices of any kind. But still the storytelling is excellent and genre defining. In fact early WRPGs were more linear.

Games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim have dialogue options, but their stories are awful. Choices were poorly done, the writing was terrible, etc.

And many of the best RPGs have autodialogue, like Tactics Ogre where while Denim mostly has his own dialogue, you make the major choices.

but we are talking about mass effect.  throughout the series we have chosen what he/she says, and now all of a sudden this has been taken away

[Tiger]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

Are you saying we cant even talk to our squadmates without auto dialogue?

[MercDT]

So it has come to this, auto-dialogue in RPG mode. How depressing.

[android654]

Ok, so one viewer said
enchainement de combats sans liberté a ce que j'en ai vu

Which translates to, "engaging without freedom was what I saw."

[Jaron Oberyn]

DarthShadow13 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

Are you saying we cant even talk to our squadmates without auto dialogue?

From what I've seen so far, yes. There's auto dialogue with 1 choice from the talk with Liara I've seen. The other one was all auto dialogue. 


-Polite

[txgoldrush]

Il Divo wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No, the plot and story are always first, the dialogue options comes second.

For example, Ultima games have a very low impact dialogue system, its questions and answers only, no choices of any kind. But still the storytelling is excellent and genre defining. In fact early WRPGs were more linear.

Games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim have dialogue options, but their stories are awful. Choices were poorly done, the writing was terrible, etc..

And in KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Baldur's Gate 2, KotOR 2, the stories were great. And they didn't need to tell me what my character's motivation was. In an interactive RPG, I expect interaction to be first and foremost, similar to the previous two installments. If you don't mind, wonderful. However, that is not my interest in playing Bioware narratives, to watch a character act completely against my interests.

Games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim have crappy stories because they don't have a focused narrative and because in general the writing is terrible. I have very little interest in what worked for Ultima. Active vs. passive story-telling are completely different affairs.

Yes you can have a great story with character interactivity, but you can also have a great one without one....which means storytelling comes first. Dialogue options do not make a story alone.

[android654]

BillsVengenace wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Uncharted is a rubbish on-rails scripted-event ridden C-rate knocked off B-rate Indiana Jones knock offs.

Le fv<k is BioWare doing wanting to be like it?

Quite a few people like it though so that's just your opinion.

Quite a lot of people don't know any better. 

Perhaps you're one of them?

Who knows; that's the beauty of opinions.

Are you denying that they are simply a couple of hours of a rubbish Indiana Jones knock off plot (with a d-bag of a protaganist) strung together with linear, scripted-event heavy, hand-holding segments of "gameplay"?  Are you actually denying this? 

But oooh, it looks pretty. 

The modern gamer is an idiot.  Flash some shiny script event sequences at him/her and they'll claim it was the greatest thing mankind has ever achieved. 

If you played all three and that's what you took away from it., then you weren't paying attention to the characters. He's nothing like Indi nor is his story anything like Indi's. If he copies anyone it's Lara, and then it's only in the environments he encounters.

[Hunter of Legends]

BillsVengenace wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

BillsVengenace wrote...

Uncharted is a rubbish on-rails scripted-event ridden C-rate knocked off B-rate Indiana Jones knock offs.

Le fv<k is BioWare doing wanting to be like it?

Quite a few people like it though so that's just your opinion.

Quite a lot of people don't know any better. 

Perhaps you're one of them?

Who knows; that's the beauty of opinions.

Are you denying that they are simply a couple of hours of a rubbish Indiana Jones knock off plot (with a d-bag of a protaganist) strung together with linear, scripted-event heavy, hand-holding segments of "gameplay"?  Are you actually denying this? 

But oooh, it looks pretty. 

The modern gamer is an idiot.  Flash some shiny script event sequences at him/her and they'll claim it was the greatest thing mankind has ever achieved. 

And if people like it then they like it.

You have no right to lord over them like you are superior. If they like a reheshed version of Indy then they like it.:happy:

[Il Divo]

txgoldrush wrote...

Yes you can have a great story with character interactivity, but you can also have a great one without one....which means storytelling comes first. Dialogue options do not make a story alone.

I do not want the concluding game to a three part story about role-playing to not have role-playing. Let Deus Ex: Human Revolution have Jensen speak without provocation. Let Shepard's dialogue be up to the player, similar to the last two installments. Storytelling comes first only in your mind. The interaction of the player is what decides the perspective from which the story is told, which is my primary interest in this series.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 05:06 .

[Tiger]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

DarthShadow13 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

Are you saying we cant even talk to our squadmates without auto dialogue?

From what I've seen so far, yes. There's auto dialogue with 1 choice from the talk with Liara I've seen. The other one was all auto dialogue. 


-Polite

This is extremely disappointing 

[Jaron Oberyn]

Lets get back on topic about the autodialogue please.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

DarthShadow13 wrote...

This is extremely disappointing 

It was hard to watch honestly. 

-Polite

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Lets get back on topic about the autodialogue please.

-Polite

But I like talking about characters voiced by Nolan North.

He's awesome

[android654]

DarthShadow13 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

DarthShadow13 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

Are you saying we cant even talk to our squadmates without auto dialogue?

From what I've seen so far, yes. There's auto dialogue with 1 choice from the talk with Liara I've seen. The other one was all auto dialogue. 


-Polite

This is extremely disappointing 

There was one conversation where Shepard's dialogue seemed to have more impact than before, so that's a good thing. The bad thing is in that conversation he has three peices of dialogue, but you get to choose them. The other characters in that scene talk several fold in comparison though...

[Tiger]

It baffles me that they would do this for the last game in the series.

[Gibb_Shepard]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well ME1 and ME2 had controllabe dialogue, whether it was big choices or not. ME3 is all auto dialogue except for the big choices, and the extremely rare instances where you can say your hopeful or mad at the reapers. And that's in RPG mode. Having watched everything from the Earth to Sur'kesh, with a lot of missions and important dialogue in between, 90% + of the time Shepard says stuff without player choice. He's his own person. There are several important conversations on the normandy, and off, that are all automatic. No choice at all. This is very disappointing. I can't even recognize this franchise anymore.


-Polite

That's bad. I personally am for giving a bit of definition of Shepard ala Geralt of Rivia, but from what i've heard there is even less dialogue choices with Shepard than Geralt.

I can't imagine an entire conversation without a dialogue choice, even both Witcher games have at least a few options per conversation. And they're with a character that was pre-defined in a series of books before hand.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 04 mars 2012 - 05:09 .

[Il Divo]

And we are at the two day mark, as of eleven minutes ago.

[N00blet666]

If any of you can get in contact with devs or mods I'd say do so, Let them know how most of us feel. The more of us that bring these complaints to them the better.

[android654]

Someone says it's worse than Monster Hunter 3. Haven't played it, but it might mean something to some of you.

[AK47 Total WAR]

Honestly, I'm not really bothered by it...

*Brings up flameshield*

[Bawseee]

I am disgusted.