2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost-621]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

MercDT wrote...

Where is this stream?

Here is this stream.

That's not a stream.

That is because they failed to keep up. This is that "stream." 

[broncos1123]

This also has me extremely upset. I had the same thought playing through the demo, there was very little choice in dialogue and it was almost all auto dialogue. I feel like I'm going to be playing the game and not really feel like it's my shepard anymore...

[Ghost-621]

broncos1123 wrote...

This also has me extremely upset. I had the same thought playing through the demo, there was very little choice in dialogue and it was almost all auto dialogue. I feel like I'm going to be playing the game and not really feel like it's my shepard anymore...

That is the main point. No amount of justification will make this point any less valid.

[tichard]

android654 wrote...

tichard wrote...

I think they should have announce it. It is a big gameplay change after all.
Learning about the full auto-dialogue only 2 days before the release and only because some people got the game earlier and are kind enough to stream it, is very annoying.

This is why it's best to wait for reviews. I pre-ordered DA2 and did all of the little newsletter things to get all of the trinkets. I had fun with the first playthrough, but at then end, it sincerely felt like a game that wasn't worth the pre-order. ME3 seems like it will suffer the same fate. A good game, but not by the standards set by it's earlier iterations.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the reason why there is so much negativity on BSN even before the game is released.
Is because, people now expect that kind of bad surprise from bioware. You never know what kind of weird gameplay decision they will do.

[Aran Linvail]

I really wish some DEV post something about this here , but i think this is not going to happen.

[android654]

Ghost-621 wrote...

broncos1123 wrote...

This also has me extremely upset. I had the same thought playing through the demo, there was very little choice in dialogue and it was almost all auto dialogue. I feel like I'm going to be playing the game and not really feel like it's my shepard anymore...

That is the main point. No amount of justification will make this point any less valid.

I can't stress enough how much this feels like EA meddling and less like a BW move. If they wanted a strictly scripted character it's something they should've done in ME1. Doing this is ME3 is inconsiderate of the base that allowed them to make it to the third game.

Also Mac citing Uncharted as a reference is ridiculous. Uncharted has followed the same formula for all three games. If it was so inspiring he should've made note in November 2007 when the first one came out.

Modifié par android654, 04 mars 2012 - 06:35 .

[KevShep]

Baldurs Gate Fanboy wrote...

I really wish some DEV post something about this here , but i think this is not going to happen.

I agree...They need to tell us!  If they are going to hurt there franchise at least have the courtesy to tell your die hard fans.

Modifié par KevShep, 04 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[Il Divo]

android654 wrote...

Also Mac citing Uncharted as a reference is ridiculous. Uncharted has followed the same formula for all three games. If it was so inspiring he should've made note in November 2007 when the first one came out.

That's my chief issue. Adapting one series to the style of another without thought for why it worked never ends well. If Bioware wants inspiration from Uncharted, I approve. Take inspiration however you can, wherever you can. Just make sure you finish what you started. In this case, I don't think that Mac will hit the Uncharted effect merely by giving Shepard all autodialogue. The strategy is much more involved than that. There are many games where the player has no control over character interaction. By removing the player dialogue, people are more likely to make a connection to those games than to Uncharted, despite his intentions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[Ziggy]

Ghost-621 wrote...

MercDT wrote...

Where is this stream?

Here is this stream.

This is something of a deal breaker for me. And I was so looking forward to this game. Well after this and DA2 I think I've finally learned my lesson: only get excited for games that have been released and thoughrouly reviewed.

[Bacon_00]

txgoldrush wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

You know, when I first saw the rumors/evidence that ME3 had less dialog decisions to make, I was pretty mad. I thought it was more "dumbing down" of video games to appeal to the masses. And while this may be true to some extent, I thought about it a little bit, and the only time I REALLY cared about ME1 and ME2's dialog choices was in crucial scenes at key points in the story. Deciding if the Rachni race lives or dies... that's what I remember. Deciding if I'm gonna be an **** or just stern when responding to some trivial situation? Usually I found it annoying and just wanted to get to the next decision that actually matered. The game didn't change depending on my choices in the majority of the dialog. It FELT like I was making choices in the dialog, but in reality it was just window dressing. NPC's would often just say the same thing no matter which choice you picked, anyway.

ME3, I'm assuming, retains the same "big choices" from the other 2 games. THAT'S what matters in this series, and if I were the designers, I'd probably have realized that and made the same design choices they did. Less is more, sometimes. If a dialog tree doesn't change the story or offer some novel response from an NPC, do we really need it? In the Mass Effect games, I'd say no. Some of you might cry "death of roleplaying," but I think Bioware already took out a large chunk of "roleplaying" when they made the player character a speaking part and decided from the get-go that you are never "evil." They've already made a lot of choices for you, yet nobody seems to care about that because it *works* in the series.

edit:

Also, I think a lot of you are being extremely over dramatic. Especially considering the game isn't even out yet, rofl.

ding ding ding....we have a winner!!!!! Although making the character never evil is a good thing. I was tired of that halo/horns type gameplay.

And really all Bioware games are pretty much railroaded.

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

[Gatt9]

KevShep wrote...

Baldurs Gate Fanboy wrote...

I really wish some DEV post something about this here , but i think this is not going to happen.

I agree...They need to tell us!  If they are going to hurt there franchise at least have the courtesy to tell your die hard fans.

All I can say is that if I find out the game is heavily auto-dialogued,  and Bioware chose not to tell me that in advance so I could make a fair purchasing decision,  my metacritic review is going to be extremely unpleasent.

A change that major should've been communicated to the player base early on in the development cycle,  not something that's still an unknown 2 days before release.

Leaving players to discover a change this major after they already purchased the game is going to leave players with alot of negative impressions.

[Il Divo]

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Not at the expense of the perspective. Bioware tells good stories, but (until this point) they have told good interactive stories. ME3, as others are indicating, does not seem to be interactive, certainly not on the level of previous Bioware endeavors. Character interaction (for myself) provides a completely different perspective on the events on the story, because I am actively involved. That's something which cannot be captured if I am watching Shepard react without input on a regular basis.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 06:47 .

[Gabriel S.]

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

You takin' a mick?!

[Gibb_Shepard]

This is just poor. Man they could do whatever they wanted with the game, but to take out the ****ing roleplaying aspect of it just... I can't believe they did this. I never though they'd go that far with the mass market appeal.

I've stated before and will state again that more autodialogue could've been good. There are moments in both ME games where a dialogue choice was really just a "Go on". But watching the stream, there are entire conversations where there should've been multiple dialogue options. There were times where a character actually asked Shepard a question, and he answered without input.

This is insane.

[Revan312]

I'm surprised by the lack of "assuming direct control" jokes in this thread..

Personally if people couldn't see the devolution of the series simply by the change from 1 -> 2 then I'm not sure what to say.. The series has continually and rapidly morphed from semi cliched space opera that was somewhat intriguing and original to Bad Boys 2 in space.. Transformers is all I can think of when I watch the streams..

Now with the game being on rails even from a conversation standpoint, it only solidifies my belief that Bioware is now more concerned about making popcorn action movies than actual RPGs. *shrug* It was inevitable what with EA being the boss.

And besides, it was pretty obvious this "shift" was going to happen after EA's CEO said this

[Bacon_00]

Il Divo wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Not at the expense of the perspective. Bioware tells good stories, but (until this point) they have told good interactive stories. If ME3, as others are indicating, does not seem to be interactive, certainly not on the level of previous Bioware endeavors. Character interaction (for myself) provides a very different perspective on the events on the story, because I am actively involved.

You guys are SO overreacting. We haven't played the game yet!!! I'm so done with this thread until the game is actually released. Yeesh. 

[Ghost-621]

android654 wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

broncos1123 wrote...

This also has me extremely upset. I had the same thought playing through the demo, there was very little choice in dialogue and it was almost all auto dialogue. I feel like I'm going to be playing the game and not really feel like it's my shepard anymore...

That is the main point. No amount of justification will make this point any less valid.

I can't stress enough how much this feels like EA meddling and less like a BW move. If they wanted a strictly scripted character it's something they should've done in ME1. Doing this is ME3 is inconsiderate of the base that allowed them to make it to the third game.

Also Mac citing Uncharted as a reference is ridiculous. Uncharted has followed the same formula for all three games. If it was so inspiring he should've made note in November 2007 when the first one came out.

[Il Divo]

Bacon_00 wrote...

You guys are SO overreacting. We haven't played the game yet!!! I'm so done with this thread until the game is actually released. Yeesh. 

Good.

[KevShep]

Bacon_00 wrote...


It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Yeah if your a mainstream gamer! Mainstream is what brings great games down. The hardcore gamer wants the whole package, such as immersion/atmosphere/story ect.

If its just story that your worryed about then the over all game is going to less then great.

[android654]

Il Divo wrote...

android654 wrote...

Also Mac citing Uncharted as a reference is ridiculous. Uncharted has followed the same formula for all three games. If it was so inspiring he should've made note in November 2007 when the first one came out.

That's my chief issue. Adapting one series to the style of another without thought for why it worked never ends well. If Bioware wants inspiration from Uncharted, I approve. Take inspiration however you can, wherever you can. Just make sure you finish what you started. In this case, I don't think that Mac will hit the Uncharted effect merely by giving Shepard all autodialogue. The strategy is much more involved than that. There are many games where the player has no control over character interaction. By removing the player dialogue, people are more likely to make a connection to those games than to Uncharted, despite his intentions.

What makes the script in Uncharted work is because its supposed to be the ultimate popcorn grabbing summer action flick as a game. Mass Effect was supposed to be an interactive Space Opera with a heavy focus on morality and character driven narratives. They're oil and water. Sure during the gameplay you can add in interactive environments a qte here and there. Those are things Uncharted does very well, but it works for them because it's a blockbuster movie as a game. The things that made one successful doesn't do it for the other.

[Il Divo]

Revan312 wrote...

Personally if people couldn't see the devolution of the series simply by the change from 1 -> 2 then I'm not sure what to say.. The series has continually and rapidly morphed from semi cliched space opera that was somewhat intriguing and original to Bad Boys 2 in space.. Transformers is all I can think of when I watch the streams..

Personally, I have much greater issues with ME1 than ME2, but that's just me. Regardless, this takes things to a different level. It's a very different style to the interactive narrative which began with Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Ghost-621]

Il Divo wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

You guys are SO overreacting. We haven't played the game yet!!! I'm so done with this thread until the game is actually released. Yeesh. 

Good.

Thank you.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Bacon_00 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Not at the expense of the perspective. Bioware tells good stories, but (until this point) they have told good interactive stories. If ME3, as others are indicating, does not seem to be interactive, certainly not on the level of previous Bioware endeavors. Character interaction (for myself) provides a very different perspective on the events on the story, because I am actively involved.

You guys are SO overreacting. We haven't played the game yet!!! I'm so done with this thread until the game is actually released. Yeesh. 

Have you missed the part where there are streams that go up to four hours of the final game?

[Bacon_00]

Did you guys read my original post where I tried to explain why this isn't the end of the world as we know it?

[aimlessgun]

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Absolutely not. Bioware and me, the player, combined, tell an awesome story. That's what makes Mass Effect so amazing. 

If Bioware cuts me out of the storymaking, ME goes from something special to just another average videogame that probably isn't worth my 60$.