2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

Bacon_00 wrote...

Did you guys read my original post where I tried to explain why this isn't the end of the world as we know it?

Yes. I disagreed with all of it.

[android654]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

Not at the expense of the perspective. Bioware tells good stories, but (until this point) they have told good interactive stories. If ME3, as others are indicating, does not seem to be interactive, certainly not on the level of previous Bioware endeavors. Character interaction (for myself) provides a very different perspective on the events on the story, because I am actively involved.

You guys are SO overreacting. We haven't played the game yet!!! I'm so done with this thread until the game is actually released. Yeesh. 

Have you missed the part where there are streams that go up to four hours of the final game?

Apparently they did. I saw from the open on Earth, Four following missions and The Normandy in between all of them. There were introductions to vital characters, important situations, and new worlds where the player decides very little.

[KevShep]

Il Divo wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

Did you guys read my original post where I tried to explain why this isn't the end of the world as we know it?

Yes. I disagreed with all of it.

This^

[Hattie]

I'm really, really disappointed.

Whose Shepard am I watching in this stream? 'Cause it isn't mine.

Also where is the replay value? Why would I sit through these cutscenes more than once?

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY FAVOURITE SERIES BIOWARE!!!

[Revan312]

Il Divo wrote...

Personally, I have much greater issues with ME1 than ME2, but that's just me. Regardless, this takes things to a different level.

ME1 devolved the entire genre to a degree, but it was still written well enough that I could see past it's faults..

ME2 was simply a parade of linear shotting halls mixed with contrived and ridiculous one liners like "Hurt? I barely felt a thing.." and "This hurts you, Shepard" When I made it to the ending of ME2, all I saw was

Modifié par Revan312, 04 mars 2012 - 06:57 .

[android654]

If you guys are watching a long stream, and are two missions in, I would recommend stopping. There's a huge spoiler on the Normandy that I would consider really bad, like General Hospital or Melrose Place bad, but it's vital to the story. So if you guys plan on playing it soon, I'd stop after two missions.

[Il Divo]

Revan312 wrote...

ME1 devolved the entire genre to a degree, but it was still written well enough that I could see past it's faults..

ME2 was simply a parade of linear shotting halls mixed with contrived and ridiculous one liners like "Hurt? I barely felt a thing.." and "This hurts you, Shepard" When I made it to the ending of ME2, all I saw was

Depends which part of the writing we're looking at (imo). ME1 had other exposition issues that bothered me substantially. Either way, this is a bit of a sidetrack. In this case, the autodialogue comes at the expense of the interaction, which has been Bioware's modus operandi since BG1, with the exceptions of Shattered Steel, MDK2, and the Sonic game.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[KevShep]

Hattie wrote...

I'm really, really disappointed.

Whose Shepard am I watching in this stream? 'Cause it isn't mine.

Also where is the replay value? Why would I sit through these cutscenes more than once?

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY FAVOURITE SERIES BIOWARE!!!

I guess they completely forgot what there foundation for the whole series was.....Player immersion!
Its hard to do that when you have a reaper(bioware) controling your immersion for you by indoctrinating you character!

Modifié par KevShep, 04 mars 2012 - 07:00 .

[staindgrey]

You guys are ridiculous. And I mean that in the nicest way.

You remember all those moments in ME1 and ME2 where there was an unnecessary pause that let you select between something like "Joker? -O- Status Report"? They never altered anything. They were unneeded.

Conversations are still in the game. Obviously. The fact that they streamlined some of it isn't an automatic negative. It COULD be a negative if it occurs too often, but we need to play the full game ourselves to know. Don't jump the gun.

Plus, for all the hate DAII gets, I think the automatic dialogue is something they did right. There was some automatic, but it always reflected your Hawke. If (s)he was a jokester, jokes would be made. Kind of a ****? ****y comments were made. I loved that. I'd actually be quite excited if ME3 incorporated a similar feature so we could watch our Shepards be exactly what we've made them to be.

[Bacon_00]

staindgrey wrote...

You guys are ridiculous. And I mean that in the nicest way.

You remember all those moments in ME1 and ME2 where there was an unnecessary pause that let you select between something like "Joker? -O- Status Report"? They never altered anything. They were unneeded.

Conversations are still in the game. Obviously. The fact that they streamlined some of it isn't an automatic negative. It COULD be a negative if it occurs too often, but we need to play the full game ourselves to know. Don't jump the gun.

Plus, for all the hate DAII gets, I think the automatic dialogue is something they did right. There was some automatic, but it always reflected your Hawke. If (s)he was a jokester, jokes would be made. Kind of a ****? ****y comments were made. I loved that. I'd actually be quite excited if ME3 incorporated a similar feature so we could watch our Shepards be exactly what we've made them to be.

Agree with this.

All I'm reading is "rage rage rage!" ... I'd hate to be a community rep for Bioware. Good lord.

[Il Divo]

staindgrey wrote...

Conversations are still in the game. Obviously. The fact that they streamlined some of it isn't an automatic negative. It COULD be a negative if it occurs too often, but we need to play the full game ourselves to know. Don't jump the gun.\\.

Out of curiosity, what do you see changing between watching streams of the final game being played vs. playing the final game yourself? I value your opinion greatly.

[DrWilhelm]

Imagine if during the development of Halo 3, the lead designer thought to himself, "You know what? I think our dedication to foot based combat is holding us back. Let's have nothing but vehicle sections for the whole game! And let's not tell the fans. Everyone loves a surprise!"

Potentially it could work, I mean the Halo series has always had above average vehicle sections, but it would inevitably disapoint fans who enjoyed the mixed gameplay that the series was known for. It would be more sensible to make a spin off or an entirely new franchise focussing on vehicluar combat instead.

If Bioware wants to tell a cinematic, on rails type of story, that's fine, go ahead, but why co opt the final part of a trilogy that's always touted player choice as a core gameplay element to do so?

[android654]

staindgrey wrote...

You guys are ridiculous. And I mean that in the nicest way.

You remember all those moments in ME1 and ME2 where there was an unnecessary pause that let you select between something like "Joker? -O- Status Report"? They never altered anything. They were unneeded.

Conversations are still in the game. Obviously. The fact that they streamlined some of it isn't an automatic negative. It COULD be a negative if it occurs too often, but we need to play the full game ourselves to know. Don't jump the gun.

Plus, for all the hate DAII gets, I think the automatic dialogue is something they did right. There was some automatic, but it always reflected your Hawke. If (s)he was a jokester, jokes would be made. Kind of a ****? ****y comments were made. I loved that. I'd actually be quite excited if ME3 incorporated a similar feature so we could watch our Shepards be exactly what we've made them to be.

Look back over the last 20 pages. One choice in about 3-5 minutes of dialogue makes the choices seem practically non existent.

[JamieCOTC]

Bacon_00 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Bacon_00 wrote...

You know, when I first saw the rumors/evidence that ME3 had less dialog decisions to make, I was pretty mad. I thought it was more "dumbing down" of video games to appeal to the masses. And while this may be true to some extent, I thought about it a little bit, and the only time I REALLY cared about ME1 and ME2's dialog choices was in crucial scenes at key points in the story. Deciding if the Rachni race lives or dies... that's what I remember. Deciding if I'm gonna be an **** or just stern when responding to some trivial situation? Usually I found it annoying and just wanted to get to the next decision that actually matered. The game didn't change depending on my choices in the majority of the dialog. It FELT like I was making choices in the dialog, but in reality it was just window dressing. NPC's would often just say the same thing no matter which choice you picked, anyway.

ME3, I'm assuming, retains the same "big choices" from the other 2 games. THAT'S what matters in this series, and if I were the designers, I'd probably have realized that and made the same design choices they did. Less is more, sometimes. If a dialog tree doesn't change the story or offer some novel response from an NPC, do we really need it? In the Mass Effect games, I'd say no. Some of you might cry "death of roleplaying," but I think Bioware already took out a large chunk of "roleplaying" when they made the player character a speaking part and decided from the get-go that you are never "evil." They've already made a lot of choices for you, yet nobody seems to care about that because it *works* in the series.

edit:

Also, I think a lot of you are being extremely over dramatic. Especially considering the game isn't even out yet, rofl.

ding ding ding....we have a winner!!!!! Although making the character never evil is a good thing. I was tired of that halo/horns type gameplay.

And really all Bioware games are pretty much railroaded.

It's true. Bioware tells a good story. Shouldn't that be what we care about?

I have eight different Shepards and everyone them is distinct from the other in looks, gender, decisions, LIs and especially dialogue choices. If I just wanted a good story w/ some action I would look elsewhere.  BW gives me something distinct from other game developers, the ability to role play a character. That plus the story, plus the action, plus the characters is what make BW great. 

[matt30822]

Have to say this had me a little worried till i saw people had only seen the first 4 hours of the game. I am a little disappointed that even then it seems that there is less dialog and choice of dialog in the game but i am surprised that it didn't really come through in the demo (there were quite a few on earth i seem to remember and i automatically assumed that the convos were mainly skipped on Sur' Kesh). So disappointed but a little silly to assume that the first 4 hours are indicative of the rest of the game, especially during the intro where i imagine a lot of the setting up is taking place.

[Chrumpek]

So guys, can we right now say that It's all dragon age 2 all over again and that it's dragon age 2 fault?

[Wulfram]

staindgrey wrote...

You guys are ridiculous. And I mean that in the nicest way.

You remember all those moments in ME1 and ME2 where there was an unnecessary pause that let you select between something like "Joker? -O- Status Report"? They never altered anything. They were unneeded.

Conversations are still in the game. Obviously. The fact that they streamlined some of it isn't an automatic negative. It COULD be a negative if it occurs too often, but we need to play the full game ourselves to know. Don't jump the gun.

Plus, for all the hate DAII gets, I think the automatic dialogue is something they did right. There was some automatic, but it always reflected your Hawke. If (s)he was a jokester, jokes would be made. Kind of a ****? ****y comments were made. I loved that. I'd actually be quite excited if ME3 incorporated a similar feature so we could watch our Shepards be exactly what we've made them to be.

People have seen large chunks of the game.  It's far far more than in DA2.

[Wulfram]

Chrumpek wrote...

So guys, can we right now say that It's all dragon age 2 all over again and that it's dragon age 2 fault?

No.  Being like DA2 in this matter would be far far better than what we've got.

[Chrumpek]

matt30822 wrote...

Have to say this had me a little worried till i saw people had only seen the first 4 hours of the game. I am a little disappointed that even then it seems that there is less dialog and choice of dialog in the game but i am surprised that it didn't really come through in the demo (there were quite a few on earth i seem to remember and i automatically assumed that the convos were mainly skipped on Sur' Kesh). So disappointed but a little silly to assume that the first 4 hours are indicative of the rest of the game, especially during the intro where i imagine a lot of the setting up is taking place.

Erm what? Intro in which you define your character has tons of auto-dialogue, the next mission in which you start itneracting with tasks at hand has even more auto-dialogue.
And then 4 hours into an RPG game nothing changed and still tons of auto-dialogue. No need to grasp straws at this point and jsut accept the fact that they won't to have their own Gears of War francishe...

[Chrumpek]

Wulfram wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...

So guys, can we right now say that It's all dragon age 2 all over again and that it's dragon age 2 fault?

No.  Being like DA2 in this matter would be far far better than what we've got.

You might be right, in DA2 you choosed everything that Hawke said, still it was a hell of a downgrade from DAO.

[Il Divo]

matt30822 wrote...

Have to say this had me a little worried till i saw people had only seen the first 4 hours of the game. I am a little disappointed that even then it seems that there is less dialog and choice of dialog in the game but i am surprised that it didn't really come through in the demo (there were quite a few on earth i seem to remember and i automatically assumed that the convos were mainly skipped on Sur' Kesh). So disappointed but a little silly to assume that the first 4 hours are indicative of the rest of the game, especially during the intro where i imagine a lot of the setting up is taking place.

Mass Effect 1 gave the player maximum freedom in choosing Shepard's dialogue, as did Mass Effect 2 (especially once we get past the intro). In what is supposed to be a 20-25 hour campaign, having the first 4 hours of that campaign be non-interactive is far from a good sign. Bioware game intros are rarely 4 hours long.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[N00blet666]

Sweet I'm glad to see that were still on the first page.

[Rickin10]

Chrumpek wrote...

So guys, can we right now say that It's all dragon age 2 all over again and that it's dragon age 2 fault?

Not for me.  I still think ME3 will be really good.  It just wont be Mass Effect anymore.  It's not DA's fault, it's a clear shift by BIoware/EA, (or should that now be EAWare) to cater for the biggest possible fanbase at the expense of their artistic integrity of the past.  I'm gutted, but that's life.

[hypr]

Just watched a couple of minutes from a walkthrough of mass effect 3. There was a scene that made me think. Its when you meet the female krogan on sur' kesh. I rember (dunno if correctly), that you could pic 3 options in an earlier demo (e3 or something like that: one of them being "im sheppard from the alliance") now in the full game shepards just auto saying that. The other two options have disapeared. to me it seems like they had to cut out content to deliver the game in time or something like that.

[Comsky159]

I wouldn't mind the DA2 mode but (note that I've seen the entire Earth, Mars, Palavan and Sur'Kesh missions from the full game in RPG mode with an imported character) this just seems a little too much atm.

I'll concede most people I've seen have chosen paragon options, so I'll wait until I can gauge the comparable breadth of the invariably singular alternative. But regardless, in the MAIN missions 80-90% of dialogue is autonomous, and of those dialogue options approx. 60-70% have consisted of dichotomous, binary trees. You can't even determine which character to send where; that's linear canon as well.

I'll see how my own import fares before making a final judgement, but as it stands I'm pretty underwhelmed with this new dialogue system. It's hardly adding to replayablility at any rate.

Excepting the intro, at the moment everything else is fantastic, I'll just hold on to the hope that this is something I'll get used to and possibly even grow to like.

Modifié par Comsky159, 04 mars 2012 - 02:48 .