2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Jacen987]

Catsith wrote...

MartinDN wrote...
Holy omg casey is looking depressed as **** on that video.

They are coming off of months of crunch time. You'd look tired too.

Chrunch mode.... Wasnt this game delayed?

[Rickin10]

Subject One wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

The unfortunate thing is they do listen to feedback, it's just that now it's feedback from the mass market i.e.  direct quote from Casy Hudson:  
 'A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'   

How is choosing a couple of options intimidating and a burden, gamers today man - have to hold their hands through everything. 

Hudson has said these things but talking about Action mode. At least that what it does in the Gamespot interview.

Indeed.  But the fact that he's saying that thay actually listened to them is imo pretty disturbing.  And as we've seen, the fact that they have tried to make ME3 all things to all people rather than focusing on producing what we know as 'Mass Effect' has lead to the cronic watering down of  the dialogue otions to the point where there doesn't appear to be a huge difference between action mode and rpg.

[Revan312]

Subject One wrote...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

But entire conversations are auto-completed.. At least some of the ones I've seen.. you have no choice period, Shepard and the character simply talk and then its over..

[Jacen987]

Subject One wrote...

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Finally, about the 'auto dialogue issue' if the Space Edition players are right the thing is that now there are a lot more dialogue with more or less the same amount of choices as ME2. So when we choose a dialogue Sheppart talks for much more time than in ME1 and 2. But this is because there are now way more sentences recorded than before (something that femshep Jennifer Hale has confirmed if I'm not wrong).

Sorry but after watching nearly 10 friggin hours of lifestream, I can only say that the amount of choices is NOWHERE close to the ME2 level. Autodialogue seems to kick in for over half of conversations.

This is friggin ridiculous...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

Thing is,...... you have no proof. Its possible and we're all hoping against hope. But, the alternative is too SCARY/

[SynheKatze]

I've been watching some live streams, and you guys wouldn't believe the amount of auto dialogue there is. I know they are striving for a more cinematic feel and blablablabla, but this is just ridiculous.

[Aargh12]

SynheKatze wrote...

I've been watching some live streams, and you guys wouldn't believe the amount of auto dialogue there is. I know they are striving for a more cinematic feel and blablablabla, but this is just ridiculous.

IMO cinematic and player-choice driven RPG don't get along nicely. You need to sacrifice one to get another. Bioware decided to go the cinematic way.

Unfortunately.

[android654]

Playing the demo in Action mode. I can assure all of the streams are in RPG mode. Action has no selection at all and all the dialogue choices are paragon.

[joe1852]

the fact that bioware hasn't commented on this has me worried

[TobyHasEyes]

 Being realistic, isn't it more likely that the autio-dialogue from Shepard is a compromise to allow more inter-squad banter, rather than a compromise to allow Kinect functionality or to allow bigger guns and tighter uniforms?

 Me thinks people conflate all their aggrevations into an overly-simplistic account

[Jacen987]

Rickin10 wrote...

Subject One wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

The unfortunate thing is they do listen to feedback, it's just that now it's feedback from the mass market i.e.  direct quote from Casy Hudson:  
 'A lot of players on feedback found the dialogue options 'intimidating and a burden and want the game to make the  choices for them'   

How is choosing a couple of options intimidating and a burden, gamers today man - have to hold their hands through everything. 

Hudson has said these things but talking about Action mode. At least that what it does in the Gamespot interview.

Indeed.  But the fact that he's saying that thay actually listened to them is imo pretty disturbing.  And as we've seen, the fact that they have tried to make ME3 all things to all people rather than focusing on producing what we know as 'Mass Effect' has lead to the cronic watering down of  the dialogue otions to the point where there doesn't appear to be a huge difference between action mode and rpg.

Not really. They still could have catered to all these groups and have RPG-mode remain classic ME. It wouldnt be hard to program or execute either, so long as the game was developed with ME in mind. Its bascally turning triggers off. So either, they were just lazy, or could't care less about the established fan-base.

Modifié par Jacen987, 04 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[mariatea]

Subject One wrote...

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Finally, about the 'auto dialogue issue' if the Space Edition players are right the thing is that now there are a lot more dialogue with more or less the same amount of choices as ME2. So when we choose a dialogue Sheppart talks for much more time than in ME1 and 2. But this is because there are now way more sentences recorded than before (something that femshep Jennifer Hale has confirmed if I'm not wrong).

Sorry but after watching nearly 10 friggin hours of lifestream, I can only say that the amount of choices is NOWHERE close to the ME2 level. Autodialogue seems to kick in for over half of conversations.

This is friggin ridiculous...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

I don't think I see your point, to be honest. These options you talk about are certainly not reflected by the dialogue wheel, number of choices is very limited - only two options plus the wheel appear up to 2-4 times at best even during major and long conversations. 

Sorry but I fail to see it as big amount of choices

Modifié par mariatea, 04 mars 2012 - 04:23 .

[Subject One]

Revan312 wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

But entire conversations are auto-completed.. At least some of the ones I've seen.. you have no choice period, Shepard and the character simply talk and then its over..

I'm only repeating the testimony of someone who has played the game twice already. And I'm not interested to spoil the entire game watching another guy playing it, so I can't say who is right and who is wrong. But I think that it sounds reasonable that if the conversations are a lot longer there will be more minutes of 'auto-pilot' than before. Frankly I don't mind If I feel that my decissions change the output. After all ME1 has a lot of options that are useless because the conversation output is nearly identical.

Modifié par Subject One, 04 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Il Divo]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 Being realistic, isn't it more likely that the autio-dialogue from Shepard is a compromise to allow more inter-squad banter, rather than a compromise to allow Kinect functionality or to allow bigger guns and tighter uniforms?

 Me thinks people conflate all their aggrevations into an overly-simplistic account

I don't see why that would be more likely. Inter squad banter is what DA:O and DA2 had. Even if Shepard spoke (similar to Hawke) independently of the player, it would not be necessary for Shepard (in general) to have entire conversations without input from the player. Kinect functionality however is more easily implemented with fewer choices and fewer instances of choice. Take from that what you will.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[mariatea]

Double post

Modifié par mariatea, 04 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Wulfram]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 Being realistic, isn't it more likely that the autio-dialogue from Shepard is a compromise to allow more inter-squad banter, rather than a compromise to allow Kinect functionality or to allow bigger guns and tighter uniforms?

 Me thinks people conflate all their aggrevations into an overly-simplistic account

I don't think it's about inter-squad banter.  Not most of it, a lot of it's for full featured cinematic dialogue.  And if the auto-dialogue is different for Paragons and Renegades, as has been suggested, it wouldn't have required all that many more resources to allow the player to choose, surely

It's about cinematic flow.

[Jacen987]

android654 wrote...

Playing the demo in Action mode. I can assure all of the streams are in RPG mode. Action has no selection at all and all the dialogue choices are paragon.

So that leaves the question: What's Action Mode like, then?

I mean, where's the destinction.

Nah, something here seems off.

[android654]

Subject One wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

But entire conversations are auto-completed.. At least some of the ones I've seen.. you have no choice period, Shepard and the character simply talk and then its over..

I'm only repeating the testimony of someone who has played the game twice already. And I'm not interested to spoil the entire game watching another guy playing it, so I can't say who is right and who is wrong. But I think that it sounds reasonable that if the conversations are a lot longer there will be more minutes of 'auto-pilot' as before. Frankly I don't mind If I feel that my decissions change the output. After all ME1 has a lot of options that are useless because the conversation output is nearly identical.

I'd take the fact that I've seen about six hours now before my eyes rather than a second hand account of what someone else liked, as an indicatior of what makes a good ME game.

From the pause menu, you can see that the game has only two options for the narrative, Full discussions and No discussions. So any video you see with dialogue prompts are in full discussion mode.

[Rickin10]

Jacen987 wrote...


Not really. They still could have catered to all these groups and have RPG-mode remain classic ME. It wouldnt be hard to program or execute either, so long as the game was developed with ME in mind. Its bascally turning triggers off. So either, they were just lazy, or could't care less about the established fan-base.

As much as I hate to say this, I think the signs since bioware have been under EA is they have pretty much forgotten about their established fan base.  EA is about making as much money whatever way they can.  Rpg is smaller market than the shooter one obviously, and takes vastly more resources and time. 

[GuiltySource]

If people don't like making dialogue decisions, then why the hell are they playing RPG's in the first place?!

[Subject One]

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Finally, about the 'auto dialogue issue' if the Space Edition players are right the thing is that now there are a lot more dialogue with more or less the same amount of choices as ME2. So when we choose a dialogue Sheppart talks for much more time than in ME1 and 2. But this is because there are now way more sentences recorded than before (something that femshep Jennifer Hale has confirmed if I'm not wrong).

Sorry but after watching nearly 10 friggin hours of lifestream, I can only say that the amount of choices is NOWHERE close to the ME2 level. Autodialogue seems to kick in for over half of conversations.

This is friggin ridiculous...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

I don't think I see your point, to be honest. These options you talk about are certainly not reflected by the dialogue wheel, number of choices is very limited - only two options plus the wheel appear onnly 2-4 times even during major and long conversations. 

Sorry but I fail to see it as big amount of choices

OK, let me try to explain. Suppose you see a 5 minute conversation with 2-4 times wheel choices on ME2. As ME3 has doubled the dialogues time that same conversation will last 10 minutes, but you will have more or less the same amount of choices per conversation (2-4).

Or let me explin this way:

ME2 lines of dialogue: 25.000
ME3 lines of dialogue: 40.000
Number of decissions: more or less the same on each game.

So for each decission you obtain more amount of dialogue than before.

[GuiltySource]

Subject One wrote...

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

mariatea wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Finally, about the 'auto dialogue issue' if the Space Edition players are right the thing is that now there are a lot more dialogue with more or less the same amount of choices as ME2. So when we choose a dialogue Sheppart talks for much more time than in ME1 and 2. But this is because there are now way more sentences recorded than before (something that femshep Jennifer Hale has confirmed if I'm not wrong).

Sorry but after watching nearly 10 friggin hours of lifestream, I can only say that the amount of choices is NOWHERE close to the ME2 level. Autodialogue seems to kick in for over half of conversations.

This is friggin ridiculous...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

I don't think I see your point, to be honest. These options you talk about are certainly not reflected by the dialogue wheel, number of choices is very limited - only two options plus the wheel appear onnly 2-4 times even during major and long conversations. 

Sorry but I fail to see it as big amount of choices

OK, let me try to explain. Suppose you see a 5 minute conversation with 2-4 times wheel choices on ME2. As ME3 has doubled the dialogues time that same conversation will last 10 minutes, but you will have more or less the same amount of choices per conversation (2-4).

Or let me explin this way:

ME2 lines of dialogue: 25.000
ME3 lines of dialogue: 40.000
Number of decissions: more or less the same on each game.

So for each decission you obtain more amount of dialogue than before.

That just sounds like some PR crap Bioware has said to shut us up.

[Il Divo]

Subject One wrote...

OK, let me try to explain. Suppose you see a 5 minute conversation with 2-4 times wheel choices on ME2. As ME3 has doubled the dialogues time that same conversation will last 10 minutes, but you will have more or less the same amount of choices per conversation (2-4).

Or let me explin this way:

ME2 lines of dialogue: 25.000
ME3 lines of dialogue: 40.000
Number of decissions: more or less the same on each game.

So for each decission you obtain more amount of dialogue than before.

The thing is, I would agree with you if the amount of interactive dialogue was proportional to the number of lines in the game. Now personally, I'm not watching the streams, I don't want any spoilers. But if this thread can be believed (and to point out, even those who don't care about the autodialogue have conceded there is much more), then the amount of autodialogue has taken on a new extreme than ME2.

I can take a few lines of autodialogue. But those one or two few lines should be interspersed throughout the entire narrative, with player input seizing the day. But it seems to be the other way around.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[Wulfram]

Subject One wrote...

OK, let me try to explain. Suppose you see a 5 minute conversation with 2-4 times wheel choices on ME2. As ME3 has doubled the dialogues time that same conversation will last 10 minutes, but you will have more or less the same amount of choices per conversation (2-4).

Or let me explin this way:

ME2 lines of dialogue: 25.000
ME3 lines of dialogue: 40.000
Number of decissions: more or less the same on each game.

So for each decission you obtain more amount of dialogue than before.

It doesn't seem like that in what I've seen. (Which isn't very extensive.  Just Demo + bit of Turian moon)

And this would be bad anyway.  Shepard shouldn't be running his mouth of without player info.

Modifié par Wulfram, 04 mars 2012 - 04:33 .

[Chrumpek]

GuiltySource wrote...

If people don't like making dialogue decisions, then why the hell are they playing RPG's in the first place?!

Because they want to play shooters with more depth then freakin gears of war I guess :> 

Srsly over the top muscleheads fighting against hordes of your typical aliens without any reason vs same action game but with different aliens, some kinda intriguing conflict in the galaxy with cool designs.

[Subject One]

android654 wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Subject One wrote...

Is not the same to have 5 choices for 5 mintues of dialogue than have 5 choices for 10 minutes of dialogue. There is a lot more of auto dialog yes, but in the end you have the same number of choices: 5. That is what I think that happens in ME3: there are the same options as ME2 but a lot more dialogue minutes.

But entire conversations are auto-completed.. At least some of the ones I've seen.. you have no choice period, Shepard and the character simply talk and then its over..

I'm only repeating the testimony of someone who has played the game twice already. And I'm not interested to spoil the entire game watching another guy playing it, so I can't say who is right and who is wrong. But I think that it sounds reasonable that if the conversations are a lot longer there will be more minutes of 'auto-pilot' as before. Frankly I don't mind If I feel that my decissions change the output. After all ME1 has a lot of options that are useless because the conversation output is nearly identical.

I'd take the fact that I've seen about six hours now before my eyes rather than a second hand account of what someone else liked, as an indicatior of what makes a good ME game.

From the pause menu, you can see that the game has only two options for the narrative, Full discussions and No discussions. So any video you see with dialogue prompts are in full discussion mode.

I'm not saying that there is not auto dialogue in RPG mode. I only say that there is more auto dialogue because it seems that conversations are longuer than before. Nothing less, nothing more.