2656 réponses à ce sujet

[KnifeForkAndSpoon]

Revan312 wrote...


EA has liquidated many companys they've bought - Westwood, Dice Canada, Bullfrog and many more. If and when Bioware becomes non-profitable, EA will do the same to them..

That's quite the body-count

[CHALET]

I should act surprised but really at this point I'm not. BioWare has stank of EA's meddling to try and get more 'casual' and 'CoD' gamers into their games for some time now. Does anybody remember that interview a while back (I think it was when they said it would be delayed till March) where they flat out came out and said "We're trying to appeal to the broader action market"?

I'll reserve final judgement until I have the game myself, but I had a gut feeling it would end up like this after Dragon Age II as I'm sure many people have.

Modifié par CHALET, 04 mars 2012 - 06:02 .

[Wulfram]

RSX Titan wrote...

Blaming EA is a cop out in my opinion. BW has clearly changed and not for the better.

It's the siren call of the cinematics, I think.

If you're a writer, player choice can probably seem like it's just getting in the way.

[Bawseee]

What I have seen is a few hours of gameplay with a good bit of dialog cut out, but the question is, are there still any conversations where there is the "investigate" option? And please tell me we can fully converse with our squadmates on the Normandy... is this confirmed?

[Rickin10]

Wulfram wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

Blaming EA is a cop out in my opinion. BW has clearly changed and not for the better.

It's the siren call of the cinematics, I think.

If you're a writer, player choice can probably seem like it's just getting in the way.

Didn't one of the writers actually say that recently?

[Arppis]

Revan312 wrote...

phimseto wrote...

 Skipping around to different parts of the playthrough, and am sad to report back that what we see in the early part of the game is what is there. Conversation prompts, investigate dialogue, and all the little touches that let you make the story your own are pretty much gone. What conversation prompts are there are so few and incidental as to be rendered useless, and interacting with characters feels superficial and uninformative. Instead of playing a conversation, you just sit there and watch it happen.

This reminds me of my response to Chris Priestly's suggestion to play ME3 non-import first. If BW thinks that is a viable option, that ME3 is a generically good game in its own right, then that means it has failed as the final part of the trilogy and failed to return the investment players of the first two games have made. From what I have seen, ME3 does this in the starkest, most dire way possible: by removing a player's connection and control from their Shepard.

ME2 and then DA2 were pretty obvious warnings..

Except ME2 was pretty damn good game. But thats, imo. Sad to see you didn't enjoy it.

[android654]

Bawseee wrote...

What I have seen is a few hours of gameplay with a good bit of dialog cut out, but the question is, are there still any conversations where there is the "investigate" option? And please tell me we can fully converse with our squadmates on the Normandy... is this confirmed?

Investigate is reduced to one question in most places.

There hasn't been much in the streams about seeking out squaddies. They usually come to you, but the majority of that dialogue is auto selected.

[Reiga]

Hm...well in my opinion, it is okay. If you played Mass Effect 1 & 2, there are a LOT of decisions that you end up making. In Mass Effect 3, it is about the result of your actions rather than you making even more decisions. So therefore, a couple of decisions and a few auto dialogues are okay. It is still your Shepard who you created based on your decisions from 1&2. This is just my opinion of course.

[Hunter of Legends]

phimseto wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

Is this how Star Wars fans felt when they saw the Phantom Menace?

Read my quote above.

I liked Phantom Menace

[Il Divo]

Wulfram wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

Blaming EA is a cop out in my opinion. BW has clearly changed and not for the better.

It's the siren call of the cinematics, I think.

If you're a writer, player choice can probably seem like it's just getting in the way.

This is my thinking as well.

[android654]

For the people thinking it's a few bits of auto dialogue will be very disappointed come Tuesday. The majority of your dialogue is not selected and it is in points that are important to the story.

[CHALET]

I don't mind auto dialogue when it's just Shepard saying "Get us out of here, Joker!" every so often, or that lazy illusion of choice in ME1 where all three options said the exact same thing but there is 'trimming the fat' and throwing away the whole damn animal so you can buy in something cheaper you scrapped off the middle of the road.

[Bawseee]

Very depressing thread to say the least. No wonder there haven't been any dev's posting in here yet to confirm, the BSN is going to be a disaster next week.

Modifié par Bawseee, 04 mars 2012 - 06:10 .

[CHALET]

Bawseee wrote...

Very depressing thread to say the least. No wonder there haven't been any dev's posting in here yet to confirm, the BSN is going to be a disaster next week.

It's not as if they'll care so long as those millions of dollars roll in. Being in the finale in the trilogy they'll be laughing all the way to the bank; they get the final game out, the fans are miffed but who gives a damn? They already paid for it.

I think most of us saw this coming. Hard not to be bitter and cynical about the industry these days. It's Westwood all over again.

[Marionetten]

Wulfram wrote...

It's the siren call of the cinematics, I think.

If you're a writer, player choice can probably seem like it's just getting in the way.

Bingo.

The problem here is that BioWare doesn't realize that people don't play their games because of the plot. People play their games because of the ability to interact with the plot. Their writing has always been mediocre. It was their ability to make the player feel like a natural part of the setting which made them awesome.

[Luigitornado]

It seems Bioware made sacrifices to make the presentation/cinematic appeal run more smoothly. I'm kind of bummed by it, but go play ME2 again and watch Joker freak out in his chair and tell me you'll miss scenes like that.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 04 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[phimseto]

Sorry, Chalet, I disagree. It wasn't an illusion of choice. It was you defining the conversation through the flavor of your choices. That is a subtle but hugely important way of defining the story on your terms. Between the removal of that and the absolute dumbing down of seemingly every single conversation i have seen in ME3, this is shaping up to be a worst of all worlds scenario.

And for the excuse that autodialogue is ok because its the final game, again...dialogue choices are not just about making decisions, but having control over conversations to define the character on your terms. They've taken that out and gone with a cookie cutter one size fits all approach, peppered with incidental moments of control rendered pointless because they are too few and far between. Yes, there are big choices to be made, but it doesn't escape the fact that ME3 is shaping up to be just some story you play, not the story you were making and spent years invested in. You're not BW's target demographic anymore.

[MisterJB]

Remember back in ME1, when we met Rear-Admiral Mikhailovich? How we could salute him or not depending on what we believed our Shepards would do?
Remember how we could allow to inspect the Normandy, how we could deny him passage or even how we could allow him in but remind him that it could not be considered a formal visit with the proper mixing of Renegade and Paragon choices?
Those were the days...

[AkiKishi]

"The defining characteristic of RPG gamers is we make our own choices. Take that away and we may as well be watching a movie".

(You won't get the joke unless you have seen the ending)

[Alraiis]

What bothers me most is the deceptive nature of statements like this:

twitter.com/#!/manveerheir/status/169143698699984896

He does not say "You still make important decisions," or "The dialogue wheel is still there," or some other evasive answer. He says "You choose your lines like in every other Mass Effect game." He explicity compares it to the previous installments, when in truth it's a significant step in another direction and there are many lines you apparently do not choose.

I am fine with the mostly auto-dialogue structure, in all honesty. But I am not fine with that structure appearing in the third game in a series that has always gone the other way. I am not fine with my expectations being used against me. I am not fine with being misled.

[Rickin10]

phimseto wrote...

Sorry, Chalet, I disagree. It wasn't an illusion of choice. It was you defining the conversation through the flavor of your choices. That is a subtle but hugely important way of defining the story on your terms. Between the removal of that and the absolute dumbing down of seemingly every single conversation i have seen in ME3, this is shaping up to be a worst of all worlds scenario.

And for the excuse that autodialogue is ok because its the final game, again...dialogue choices are not just about making decisions, but having control over conversations to define the character on your terms. They've taken that out and gone with a cookie cutter one size fits all approach, peppered with incidental moments of control rendered pointless because they are too few and far between. Yes, there are big choices to be made, but it doesn't escape the fact that ME3 is shaping up to be just some story you play, not the story you were making and spent years invested in. You're not BW's target demographic anymore.

Quite agree.  Oh, all the people that spent who knows how many hours playing through multiple Sheperds, wondering, anticipating how they would all pan out in the finale....  There will be blood on here next week.

[BillsVengenace]

CH: "You are correct. We have a rule on the team that there are no canon choices. We leave it to you to decide Shepard's true path."

Except you know when we don't. 90% of the time in ME3.

[CHALET]

MisterJB wrote...

Remember back in ME1, when we met Rear-Admiral Mikhailovich? How we could salute him or not depending on what we believed our Shepards would do?
Remember how we could allow to inspect the Normandy, how we could deny him passage or even how we could allow him in but remind him that it could not be considered a formal visit with the proper mixing of Renegade and Paragon choices?
Those were the days...

But Mr. JB, what about all those casual gamers? We might scare them away if they can't shoot something!  WE HAVE TO THINK OF THE MONEY. 

/Sarcasm.

[Alex_SM]

Il Divo wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

RSX Titan wrote...

Blaming EA is a cop out in my opinion. BW has clearly changed and not for the better.

It's the siren call of the cinematics, I think.

If you're a writer, player choice can probably seem like it's just getting in the way.

This is my thinking as well.

Bull****. If you are a writer, player choice is like heaven. It allows you to write different outcomes for the same concept, allows to have different characterizations for the same character, to have multi-linear stories where, while following the same path, the main characters sees different things, etc... 

It's just a different kind of writing than the one used in novels or films. 

Games shall be about interactivity (not just about blowing up ****), and that must lead to a different kind of writing than the "standard story writing". And I'm not talking about Bethesda's way of writing, which is bassically "let's not write anything and just provide the world for the player to make up everything". 

That maybe demands more resources than linear stories, but that is what games need to develop their own narrative rules and become a real form of art on its own, and not "a long movie with playable shooting sections" and that kind of stuff. 

[phimseto]

MisterJB wrote...

Remember back in ME1, when we met Rear-Admiral Mikhailovich? How we could salute him or not depending on what we believed our Shepards would do?
Remember how we could allow to inspect the Normandy, how we could deny him passage or even how we could allow him in but remind him that it could not be considered a formal visit with the proper mixing of Renegade and Paragon choices?
Those were the days...

I just saw that scene last night, and it kills me now that I have seen what I have seen of ME3. The whole final game should have been full of moments like that. They have thrown away the very best parts of what made the ME experience unique.