2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Justicar]

 social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9618305/1

[Savber100]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well I hope you're happy with what you end up with Hunter. I sure am not. They really made shepard canon this time.

-Polite

I somewhat emphatize with your worry. Bioware is going for the Witcher-styled voiced protagonist in where player still has input but the character becomes a more defined character in which I don't really like. 

It's a REALLY delicate balance between YOUR character and what Bioware wants in developing a character that has been a little too Mary Sue. 

Modifié par Savber100, 04 mars 2012 - 07:48 .

[DTKT]

Here are a few in-depth posts from Neogaf. This is from players using the RPG mode with full decisions.

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=3828

This is somewhat correct. I adore ME games but when compared to the others, there is an extraordinary number of situations where you should have a choice and it picks for you. After checking through the various types of gameplay RPG does offer more, but, at least the first 4-6 hours is far less dialogue or even explanation of things that I ever expected. It feels a bit like the non choice style of gameplay was interesting to them so when they had a chance to write dialogue they didn't put much effort into it? I guess that's the best way I can describe it. So the RPG gameplay choice is suffering from lack of interest or lack of effort. As well as some truly questionable cuts, editing, and cutscene issues. So far I have had 7 cutscenes that have no explanation or reason with lots of randomness going on that doesn't really fit right now. Then you have the character introductions and backstory which is lacking to be sure. I was really disappointed with the introduction to 2 characters specifically that were handled with the deft care of a shotgun blast at point blank range filled with paper mache. It was such a waste of potential.

So far, compared to 1 and 2, I would say I am liking this a good deal less. If they fix the bugs (lip synch, wrong voices randomly for some responses, NPC sticking in the geometry which happens a ****-ton) it will go up. But currently if ME1 and 2 were 9's this is probably a 7 or a 6 to me. That is only after maybe 5+ hours of gameplay.

Also the writing is not as good as I expected. I felt that the ME games handled writing as well as they could, yet the number of times I saw or heard "Wow that's rough. Or Wow sucks" in relation to world ending events, makes me want to scream.

I am stoked for some multiplayer though. Just to see how that works. I am sure I will lead the charge in deaths:)

ME is still my favorite series of games. I simply adore them. But issues...abound with this.

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=3839 

It's not 'mostly', but it is noticeable. In the search of cinematic flair - which is definitely there in a larger way - they might forgo a choice in places in order to have a more cinematic camera angle or something.

I don't mind it too much in moment-to-moment stuff. It feels like they got rid of some of the more superfluous choice where an option would loop back around to the same place in the end anyway. 

The most notable place it's streamlined is on the Normandy itself. With each squad member - and major members of your crew like Joker, Chakwas and the guy who drives the shuttle - you'll get one 'major' conversation (so far in my experience anyway) where you can investigate, find out about their past etc - and then from there it's a bit like Kasumi and Zaeed - when you visit them they'll have pre-set conversations with Shepard (who does respond) about the last mission. 

BUT - and this is vital, I think - these aren't the only squad conversations. It seems they ditched lengthy "go talk to everyone after each mission to advance their plot" side-lines, but then when you dock at "hub" worlds like the Citadel your entire crew disembarks the Normandy - even people like Joker - and you can find them around. When you hit them at these places, there's more fleshed out, traditional ME conversations with your squad and crew.

The 'main' conversation lines are better done as a result, though - you've all probably seen the clips of Shepard and Vega sparring - that's one of them - and even in places like the Citadel it involves a great deal more walking around and cinematic direction to the scenes. In this case, I feel it's a worthwhile swap. 

Modifié par DTKT, 04 mars 2012 - 07:48 .

[Hillbillyhat]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Hillbillyhat wrote...

So there is more auto dialogue in warzones than in more peaceful areas. The auto dialogue there seems to depend on the initial paragon or renegade decisions you make. Eh this makes sense since I would expect some of the fan reviewers to actually dump on this game if it wasn't for that.

I wish that were true, but even on places where there aren't warzones, such as the normandy, or hub worlds, there's still a lot of auto dialogue. Even conversations with important people that are 100% automatic.

-Polite

I seriously doubt its all 100% auto. Like I said the auto dialogue seems initiated by the initial choice at least in hub areas usually. Even then it looks more like ME2 with a bit more extra dialogue added to it. Eh I'll wait until I play the game. People constantly assumed I would hate DA2 and I ended up liking it (mostly due to the characters and some of the combat) so I doubt this would be extremely annoying. As long as the choices have actual meaning (something I've been hearing from most reviewers) then I'll be okay.

[Wulfram]

Catsith wrote...

It was a quick conversation. The point of the video is to show that yes, there is some auto dialogue now, but there's also the same ol' Mass Effect conversation system in place here, where you can talk to people and ask questions. There is too much misinformation going around about this. The truth of it is that there is more auto-dialogue in the story parts, no question, but there is still interactive dialogue, and from what I have seen, it is NOT entirely automatic like most people are claiming. I have only seen about 5 hours of the game, but it's more than enough for me.

Investigate options don't allow me to develop Shepard's character, so they don't address my issues with what I've seen.

While the Vega part has loads of autodialogue, and one Para/Ren with no neutral, so that pretty much confirms my problem.

[AK47 Total WAR]

Catsith wrote...

Sigh... just spoil yourselves and watch this Citadel walkthrough:

You can see plenty of dialogue.

WHOA WHOA WHOA

Did Udina dye his hair?!

[Il Divo]

More from Mr. Pikachu.

[Il Divo]

jdunn1 wrote...

how spoilerish is the citadel clip?  i don't like forming opinions based solely on hearsay and other's opinions.

Not spoilerish at all, having watched the entire thing.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Savber100 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Well I hope you're happy with what you end up with Hunter. I sure am not. They really made shepard canon this time.

-Polite

I somewhat agree. Bioware is going for the Witcher-styled voiced protagonist in where player still has input but the character becomes a more defined character (somewhat). 

From what I've heard TW2 had more dialogue choice than what we've seen with ME3 so far from the streams. 

Hillbillyhat wrote...

I seriously doubt its all 100% auto. Like I said the auto dialogue seems initiated by the initial choice at least in hub areas usually. Even then it looks more like ME2 with a bit more extra dialogue added to it. Eh I'll wait until I play the game. People constantly assumed I would hate DA2 and I ended up liking it (mostly due to the characters and some of the combat) so I doubt this would be extremely annoying. As long as the choices have actual meaning (something I've been hearing from most reviewers) then I'll be okay.

Have you seen the stream from yesterday? There were about 4 that I distinctly remember were 100% automatic. I kid you not. Most of the other dialogue is all auto with at most one choice in between, not to initiate it, but sort of to express sorrow or anger, then it's back to auto. But I agree, you'll just have to decide if it's too much for you or not once you play it. To me, it's too far. There's no point in doing more than one playthrough since 90% of the dialogue is going to be the same. 

-Polite

[Ghost-621]

Il Divo wrote...



More from Mr. Pikachu.

Holy crap.

That was a three-to-one ratio. And he said that out of the five hours he's played, it's been like that.

[Wulfram]

Il Divo wrote...

Not spoilerish at all, having watched the entire thing.

Well, there's one thing you might find spoily, but it's predictable and I believe still very early in the game.

[Il Divo]

Wulfram wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Not spoilerish at all, having watched the entire thing.

Well, there's one thing you might find spoily, but it's predictable and I believe still very early in the game.

Fair enough. Ultimately, it is watch at your own risk, but it all depends on what you consider a heavy spoiler.

Modifié par Il Divo, 04 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[Hillbillyhat]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Have you seen the stream from yesterday? There were about 4 that I distinctly remember were 100% automatic. I kid you not. Most of the other dialogue is all auto with at most one choice in between, not to initiate it, but sort of to express sorrow or anger, then it's back to auto. But I agree, you'll just have to decide if it's too much for you or not once you play it. To me, it's too far. There's no point in doing more than one playthrough since 90% of the dialogue is going to be the same. 

-Polite

The second you asked did I watch the stream I stopped right there. I didn't watch it at all if your talking about the 6 hour one. The other one was in a combat zone so yeah that pretty much proves my assumption of there being more auto dialog in combat situations.

[Hunter of Legends]

I hope you all enjoy the game but what I'm seeing is hardly "crucify Bioware for their transgrassions" level of bad.

This is come from a former Bungie fan myself. This stuff is hardly that big.

[Gamingboy]

I'm bummed, of course, that there won't be as many dialog-wheels, but at least it seems that most of the auto-dialog, if the demo is anything to go on, seems roughly what I'd have had Shepard say anyway. Of course, I'm more of a Paragon type, so....


The big important thing to me, though, are those little "down periods". If a war is going on just around the corner, yeah, I don't mind if I don't have dialogue wheel (well, I don't mind as much), but places like the Citadel and (to a slightly lesser degree*) the Normandy are the places where the dialogue wheel really shines. So that citadel video makes me glad.


*I say "to a lesser degree" because, to be blunt, after awhile you exaust every possible discussion point and you just end up hearing about Garrus' calibrations and how Jacob is looking forward to the post-Suicide Mission after-party. Same thing for the Citadel, but you don't spend as much time on the Citadel to notice that.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Watch this video. No spoilers really.




-Polite

[Ghost-621]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I hope you all enjoy the game but what I'm seeing is hardly "crucify Bioware for their transgrassions" level of bad.

This is come from a former Bungie fan myself. This stuff is hardly that big.

That's where you're wrong buddy. Auto-dialogue in a Mass Effect game is, for all intents and purposes, unacceptable. They have stripped the most critical feature from the game, so what are we left with now? A third-person shooter with a broken sci-fi backdrop.

In the final chapter. That seems pretty big to me.

[Hillbillyhat]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Watch this video. No spoilers really.




-Polite

I already watched that.

[Catsith]

Il Divo wrote...



More from Mr. Pikachu.

I guess I'm the only one who has no issue with this, then. It seems exactly like a conversation I'd have with Kelly, only the difference being with Kelly I'd have to keep selecting lines from the dialogue wheel, and here it is rolled into a cutscene, while still giving you a paragon or renegade choice. To me it seems that the 'neutral' lines that would've been on the dialogue wheel (and not part of Investigate) are now incorporated into the conversations, and to me, it seems a lot more natural. I can understand why some people would be upset over this, but I'm not.

[Hunter of Legends]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Watch this video. No spoilers really.




-Polite

Really not that big of a deal to me.

I feel for those that like all that dialogue choice but I personally don't see anything wrong.

You guys actually had me worried for a moment:P

[AK47 Total WAR]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Watch this video. No spoilers really.




-Polite

Don't really see an issue.

Two of Sheps lines were were general questions that would've been found on the dialogue wheel anyway, so mind as well incorporate them to the conversation. His "impressive" comment doesn't really bother me either; it's a one-word comment that doesn't really do anything.

[Il Divo]

Catsith wrote...

Il Divo wrote...



More from Mr. Pikachu.

I guess I'm the only one who has no issue with this, then. It seems exactly like a conversation I'd have with Kelly, only the difference being with Kelly I'd have to keep selecting lines from the dialogue wheel, and here it is rolled into a cutscene, while still giving you a paragon or renegade choice. To me it seems that the 'neutral' lines that would've been on the dialogue wheel (and not part of Investigate) are now incorporated into the conversations, and to me, it seems a lot more natural. I can understand why some people would be upset over this, but I'm not.

I'm not asking you to be upset for me. I'm not even asking you to see what I see. If you're still okay with ME3 as it is, I (genuinely) am happy for you. But I will keep this blunt:

For me, Mass Effect's appeal (and Bioware games in general) have been founded on the idea of letting the player become as immersed as possible in the identity of their character. ME2 had autodialogue, but still kept it in (mostly) reasonable boundaries. The more Shepard reacts without my input, the less I'm connected to the character. And having spent 40-60 hours between both games as this character, making choices as this character, it would suck to have that perspective ripped out of my hands.

I sound like a broken record at this point, but Tuesday everything becomes clear. Maybe the amount of autodialogue is exaggerated, maybe it's not.

[FlashHand777]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...

I hope you all enjoy the game but what I'm seeing is hardly "crucify Bioware for their transgrassions" level of bad.

This is come from a former Bungie fan myself. This stuff is hardly that big.

That's where you're wrong buddy. Auto-dialogue in a Mass Effect game is, for all intents and purposes, unacceptable. They have stripped the most critical feature from the game, so what are we left with now? A third-person shooter with a broken sci-fi backdrop.

In the final chapter. That seems pretty big to me.

I agree, obviously I'll wait and see but of all the features that define this series it's the dialogue wheel.
If it is as stripped back as some say then it's obviously a pandering to a demographic that otherwise wouldn't have the attention span to play. Integrate new players sure but breaking down key design elements that have defined the series in order to do so, is not the right way.

Modifié par FlashHand777, 04 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

AK47 Total WAR wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Watch this video. No spoilers really.




-Polite

Don't really see an issue.

Two of Sheps lines were were general questions that would've been found on the dialogue wheel anyway, so mind as well incorporate them to the conversation. His "impressive" comment doesn't really bother me either; it's a one-word comment that doesn't really do anything.

Well wait until you see the forced friendships with Vega, Liara, and Garrus. Not to mention the numerous occasions where he's talking to key plot figures and it's all automatic character defining dialogue. Unless you've seen the streams you're not informed as to how much auto dialogue there is, for those of us who have, we are. 

-Polite