2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody211282]

Corvus Metus wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Corvus Metus wrote...

jkvaughn wrote...

To me the dialog style in ME1 was the best. Being able to interact with the various caracters is part of what makes it an rpg. The more interaction the better

Being able to interact with various characters makes a modern RPG, as defined the games produced by Black Isle in the mid to late 90's, including Bioware's own Baldur's Gate series, Fallout, and Planescape: Torment.

Character interaction is not a requirement for an RPG.   A lot of the old "gold box" AD&D titles had little to no character interaction and most roguelike games more or less throw you in a dungeon for no reason.  Yet they are still RPGs.  While that is irrelvant to the topic, its just a little nitpick I have.

I just got back into Baldur's Gate about a week ago. After that, I plan on making my way back around into Torment. Good times.

I still think the Baldur's Gate series is the best thing that Bioware ever did.  Hell, for a game with minimal voiced dialogue, I feel it has far better characteration and that your companions feel more life-like than anyone in ME.   Sometimes, I feel a lot of modern "Bioware fans" are missing out on the best games.

Like hell some of us are.

I just picked up the Dungeons and Dragons classic Anthology from amazon just in case this games pulls a DA2.

Modifié par Cody211282, 05 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[Elegana]

With this and the endings... Geez, I don't even want to play anymore.

[Jaron Oberyn]

JeffZero wrote...

Well Polite, on the up side had more people seen the forest for the trees with us several weeks ago it still wouldn't have accomplished anything: the game was already spiraling close to gold.

You're right. That's why I started bringing his up a year ago, and someone who's name escapes me surpassed me by bringing it up 2 years ago. It was in the hopes that it wouldn't come to this. 

-Polite

[bleetman]

Sigh.

I need "the more I hear, the less interested I become" molded onto a rubber e-stamp, for convenient replication whenever I come across crap like this. This is horrendously bad news for someone like me, who actually gets a great deal of enjoyment from tailor-RPing characters in a particular way, and then expressing that through character interaction.

...

I should go. I'm not sure I could express my particular feelings towards this without launching in a barrage of indirect, frustrated swearing.

[Il Divo]

Corvus Metus wrote...

I still think the Baldur's Gate series is the best thing that Bioware ever did.  Hell, for a game with minimal voiced dialogue, I feel it has far better characteration and that your companions feel more life-like than anyone in ME.   Sometimes, I feel a lot of modern "Bioware fans" are missing out on the best games.

I could see it. BG was actually before my time (started with KotOR), so the summer after ME2 came out, I decided to go back and play some of the old school stuff that I would always hear people gush about (BG, Planescape, Fallout). The BG series is an epic, and I don't just mean that as another way of saying "really good". It's also fun to see where most of Bioware's emphasis originated.  

[Gibb_Shepard]

JeffZero wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I have never considered those games RPGs. Dark Souls is a dungeon crawler, basically an action adventure. JRPGs are turn based action games.

Erm, not always, no. But I see your point as I read farther along, so yeah.

I'm sorry, but if i cannot roleplay a character, then the game is not an RPG. I honestly wish the genre hadn't been stretched so broadly to incorporate so many different genres. Roleplaying is what started the genre, and it should always remain the core of the genre.

Jeff, why do you think Final fantasy should be considered an RPG? How is it different to any other genre out there? It has turn based combat and upgradeable mechanics. COD has upgradeable mechanics. Heroes has turn based combat. Combining these two does not make an RPG.

I know this is a touchy subject, but i have always been somewhat confused with how hard it is to define an RPG when the core aspect is in the title of the genre name.

Well, now we're getting into a much more complicated subject, but admittedly I've given this a lot of thought and sometimes I've ended up on your side of the fence. I think the issue at hand here is that it would have been really freaking cool if developers had noticed the issues with terminology long ago and chosen something else, but the usage of the term 'roleplaying game' is modified significantly in regard to such things as JRPGs and transforms into 'you play the role of ____ in this play', for lack of a better definition offhand. And it isn't a play, of course, it's a game.

Now, couldn't you say the same thing for playing Metal Gear Solid? You play the role of Solid Snake? Or Pac-Man in the titular classic? You certainly do play the role of Pac-Man. Yes and yes. Fair points all-around.

The origins of the JRPG stem from fresh-from-college Japanese developers in the mid-to-late eighties inspired by Dungeons and Dragons and the earliest Western RPGs. They took those inspirations into monster design, crunchy upgrading and combat systems and the like, and then plucked you into minimal-dialogue adventures as Fighter and Black Mage or Hero or what-have-you. Soon enough as hardware evolved the idea that a more engrossing story could be formed caught on with those same developers, by then recognized for their talents at borrowing-and-executing within Japan. Thus Final Fantasy IV, Dragon Quest V and onward were born, and for however long you want to pin it things were good. Hell, some still think things are good with the genre, but apart from Xenoblade I'm just not feelin' it.

So what's the difference, then, between Pac-Man and Final Fantasy? Why does Final Fantasy get to be called an RPG? Near as I can tell because of originating inspirations. A lot more could be written on the silliness of it all and I recognize -- and even, to a point, agree with -- your more restrained definition of the RPG.

To me though, end of the day, the fact remains that those belong to the so-called, too-broad RPG genre.

Pretty much. The genre definitely lacked definitive aspects when being coverted into video game form. And i guess it's too late to start defining what an RPG actually is, as it never really was defined from the get go.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. When i see TW2 and Dark souls contesting for No.1 RPG, but they both aim for different things. TW2 is about choice and consequence and crafting the character of Geralt (He is not as predefined as many believe. There are many ways to craft this character) while Dark Souls is moreso about combat and exploration.

But, that's just the way it is.

[Jaron Oberyn]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

[Il Divo]

Cody211282 wrote...

Like hell some of us are.

I just picked up the Dungeons and Dragons classic Anthology from amazon just in case this games pulls a DA2.

That's one complete Bioware trilogy, at least.

Modifié par Il Divo, 05 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[Il Divo]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

Odd as this might sound, but would you mind elaborating....without spoiling. Yeah, it sounds weird I know.

[Gibb_Shepard]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Wait, ar eyou saying that there is considerable dialogue choice in these instances? I won't click because i don't want to be spoiled.

[JeffZero]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Pretty much. The genre definitely lacked definitive aspects when being coverted into video game form. And i guess it's too late to start defining what an RPG actually is, as it never really was defined from the get go.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. When i see TW2 and Dark souls contesting for No.1 RPG, but they both aim for different things. TW2 is about choice and consequence and crafting the character of Geralt (He is not as predefined as many believe. There are many ways to craft this character) while Dark Souls is moreso about combat and exploration.

But, that's just the way it is.

Speaking of The Witcher 2, I'm getting into that series when I'm done with ME3. I've simply heard entirely too many good things about both the games and the company behind them (hey, they're the GOG guys? Awesome!) to avoid them any longer. I hadn't touched them before because all I had computer-wise was a business-grade $499 laptop from 2009, but I got me a sweet gaming rig a couple of weeks ago and it's time to put her through her paces, one Polish work of fiction at a time.

And Civilization V too. Which, adding more fuel to the etymology fire, one could call an RPG because you play the role of a historically-relevant leader and try to unite the world through peace or flames.

[idoless24]

DatIrishFella wrote...

Alex Arterius wrote...

So are talks with squaddies on the Normandy lke this too?! That's truly bismol if so. Why would they do this?

Yes. As for why? We'll never truly know. 

I'm getting more and more angry after reading all these threads about it. I just don't get it. Why would they change something that basically made their game big in the first place? The combat was never the reason for people buying this game. It was ALWAYS the story, characters and YOUR Shepard's choices.

God, if I wanted to play a mindless shooter I would pick a much better one than Mass Effect. That's not why I love this game so damn much.

[graciegrace]

like I asked earlier, is the day one patch like out for people with early console copies? could this be some kind of anti-piracy feature that the patch is supposed to correct?

[android654]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

Don't see why, it's still consistent with the rest, the second one has the wheel three times, but it's still the minority. On the positive, they did make good on their promise to make dialogue scenes more cinematic, but I suppose it's consistent with the problem of auto dialogue.

I suppose it was suspect when they said this would be a natural entry point for new players.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Yes Divo and Gibb. The conversations there seem to be like ME2, it's with the squad/npcs from ME2 on the Citadel. All looks well.

-Polite

[Rhazesx]

I noticed this right away in the demo, its very sad. I have 8 play through's of Me1 and 2. I didn't buy DAO2 because of how Bioware "innovated" it. I'm still getting ME3 because I need to finish the story even if its their Sheperd I'm playing as and not any of the ones I played. However, if auto dialogue is worse than the demo I won't even waste money on DLC, unless, its DLC that actually changes the game and lets me play as the Sheperd I created and played through 2 games. When you make a series that carry overs you need to stick what works not trying to bring in a whole bunch of people that wasn't there for rest of the series because you will only lose your base.

ME3 will greatly affect any future purchases I make with Bioware and I own all but a couple of their catalogue.

[Jaron Oberyn]

android654 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

Don't see why, it's still consistent with the rest, the second one has the wheel three times, but it's still the minority. On the positive, they did make good on their promise to make dialogue scenes more cinematic, but I suppose it's consistent with the problem of auto dialogue.

I suppose it was suspect when they said this would be a natural entry point for new players.

But actually listen to some of the auto dialogue, it's not really character defining. Most of it is some stuff that is usually in the investigate, or general talk, or neutral talk. It doesn't seem that bad from those conversations. I'm going into Tuesday with a small glimmer of hope now. 

-Polite

[LucidStrike]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.

[snip]

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

I'll use your hope as my own then. I've been too cavalier with ebing spoiled as it is. I'll have the game in a little over 24 hours. I can wait.

[android654]

Just an FYI, the video that Politeassassin put up is after Palaven, so 6+ hours in.

[Gibb_Shepard]

JeffZero wrote...



Speaking of The Witcher 2, I'm getting into that series when I'm done with ME3. I've simply heard entirely too many good things about both the games and the company behind them (hey, they're the GOG guys? Awesome!) to avoid them any longer. I hadn't touched them before because all I had computer-wise was a business-grade $499 laptop from 2009, but I got me a sweet gaming rig a couple of weeks ago and it's time to put her through her paces, one Polish work of fiction at a time.

And Civilization V too. Which, adding more fuel to the etymology fire, one could call an RPG because you play the role of a historically-relevant leader and try to unite the world through peace or flames.

Nice!

I also recommend you wait until mid April before playing TW2. CDPR are releasing an "Enhanced Edition" that adds 5 hours  of story content to the third and final act of the game. Free of charge. 

[android654]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

android654 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

http://www.twitch.tv...tuk/b/310597500

Arrr, there be spoilers, beware.


1. The beginning.

2. 2:36

3. 6:20

4. 8:25

5. 12:55

6. 16:03

7. 20:05

8. 24:15

9. 30:00


Having seen most of these for the first time, it doesn't seem so bad actually. Someone check my temperature.

-Polite

Just so people don't miss it on the previous page. This sort of gives me a little hope. 


-Polite

Don't see why, it's still consistent with the rest, the second one has the wheel three times, but it's still the minority. On the positive, they did make good on their promise to make dialogue scenes more cinematic, but I suppose it's consistent with the problem of auto dialogue.

I suppose it was suspect when they said this would be a natural entry point for new players.

But actually listen to some of the auto dialogue, it's not really character defining. Most of it is some stuff that is usually in the investigate, or general talk, or neutral talk. It doesn't seem that bad from those conversations. I'm going into Tuesday with a small glimmer of hope now. 

-Polite

Well I wont take that from you, but that scene with Joker. Not too happy about that, the direction there is a little disturbing. But you're right, it's better  but it also isn't at pivotal points like Palaven or Mars.

[Corvus Metus]

Cody211282 wrote...

Like hell some of us are.

I just picked up the Dungeons and Dragons classic Anthology from amazon just in case this games pulls a DA2.

IMO, ME3 could be the best video game of this generation and still not hold a candle to the Baldur's Gate trilogy and Planescape.

That's how good I think they are.

[KevShep]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Yes Divo and Gibb. The conversations there seem to be like ME2, it's with the squad/npcs from ME2 on the Citadel. All looks well.

-Polite

I hope your right. Ive waited since Sovereign showed himself to play this one and I want it to be an immersion experiance as possible. Auto dialogue is a shot by the devs in the knee.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

I'm honestly not all that surprised by this.

I mean, I've been progessively lowering my expectations since that "Against All Odds" trailer a while back, so if ME3 doesn't somehow turn out to be much better than what I've been seeing lately, at least I can dismiss it as an inferior Mass Effect game and move on. I don't care to debate exactly what makes it inferior, arguing over the importance of improved graphics/combat/cinematic direction, since the only thing that really made the series noteworthy to me was the dialogue system (and apparently that's gotten a fairly big downgrade).

It just sucks that my FAVOURITE thing about the series seems to have regressed so much... it would make sense if there were a bewildering number of permutations to the story, but even those seem a little underwhelming at this point...

Still going to enjoy it, mind, but I probably won't be singing Bioware's praises like I did following ME1's release.

[JeffZero]

Corvus Metus wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

Like hell some of us are.

I just picked up the Dungeons and Dragons classic Anthology from amazon just in case this games pulls a DA2.

IMO, ME3 could be the best video game of this generation and still not hold a candle to the Baldur's Gate trilogy and Planescape.

That's how good I think they are.

That's how good I think Planescape: Torment and Xenogears are, myself.

That era, man. THAT ERA.