2656 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...
There is no such thing as valid and invalid opinion. There is only opinion.

Not according to any dictionaries I know of. Valid means solid and well-founded.

In a hypothetical situation, I could have the opinion that you smell really really bad. Okay, that's my opinion. It's a bit mean, you probably don't smell bad to other people, but in my opinion, you smell bad. It's not valid, neither is yours or other people's opinion valid. But there is no invalidation either in both opinions.

Your opinion that I smell isn't solid, it's unfounded and therefore it's invalid. Had you pointed out that a cat died as I passed by, due to the horrid smell, then your opinion would have been valid.

[shep82]

Dave of Canada wrote...

shep82 wrote...
Someone else logical on the BSN? *faints*:innocent:

Depends. I doubt mental gymnastics counts as logic.

He stated his opinion and it's a very logical opinion I do not see this mental gymnastics you speak of.

[dahellraider]

cant we go back to complaining about the endings or something cus this is going nowhere

[Duncaaaaaan]

Hunter of Legends wrote...



Go read a book.

I am reading a book, I am currently reading Clash of Kings, the 2nd book of the song of ice and fire series by george R Martin, it's a really excellent read, it's a fantasy novel.

I'm also studying in depth The Pardoner's Tale, Dr Faustus and The Bloody Chamber for my education. I've got a good amount of books on my plate at this moment, thanks.

Kind of an immature retort you've got there, Hunter.

[Justicar]

shep82 wrote...

A little dissapointing but not a big deal IMO.

I just hope it isn't the icing on the cake. I hope we don't find more of this with other squadmates, ESPECIALLY Liara for me. Maybe it's just the VS, idk. Prothy as well.

I will be sad if it extends to other Squadmates.

[Hunter of Legends]

Saints_ wrote...

Yeah a lot of ****in auto dialogue. Disappointed.

Welcome to Bioware's smoke and mirrors; allows for better narrative and delivery IMHO.

They've been doing it since their first game. KotOR was full of it too.

[Phaedon]

shep82 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

shep82 wrote...
Someone else logical on the BSN? *faints*:innocent:

Depends. I doubt mental gymnastics counts as logic.

He stated his opinion and it's a very logical opinion I do not see this mental gymnastics you speak of.

I'm tempted to say that I do see mental gymnastics, but not from Someone With Mass. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 02 mars 2012 - 10:21 .

[brfritos]

Jynthor wrote...

Yes, it was quite depressing to see that.
Shepard just kept talking and talking, then you FINALLY get a dialogue wheel, and what do you get?
Where investigate used to be you now have one question and nothing more, then you have a Paragon and Renegade option, Neutral seems to be gone.

This is just a plain case of dumbing down, we have Action mode for this kind of gameplay, the RPG fans want Dialogue like ME1/2.

Yes, but the choices came out when you choose to investigate things and most of the videos I saw goes to "let's not spoil things", so we actually don't see ANY example what the left dialog option do.
I find this frustrating, come on, give us a example what the left dialog option do!

Said that, if you scrutinize the videos, all of them cut the action, cut the dialogs and cut what you are seeing, no video shows the enviroment in the detail.
No wonder people are upset, they don't see if there will be options or the dialog will be full auto.
I prefer to wait to the final game, everything we saw are a bit misleading of how things will be.

I've found great that using medi-gel is no more a simple press of a button, you have to actually stop of what you are doing and you are vulnerable during that time.
And the guy playing the game sucks hard... 

Modifié par brfritos, 02 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[Hunter of Legends]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...



Go read a book.

Kind of an immature retort you've got there, Hunter.

As is telling anyone who prefers logical narrative to go play CoD.

[FabricatedWookie]

Wulfram wrote...

FabricatedWookie wrote...

this all seems a bit like jumping the gun. Why would bioware, who went out of their way to give an mmo a myriad of dialogue options, suddenly change their formula on the final game? This is a lot of doom and gloom for not playing it.

Look, maybe we're wrong, hopefully we're wrong.  But if so, Bioware really need to tell us that this was in action mode or something.

I don't know. The reaction seems out of place.  I can understand being worried, but to demand a response from bioware? Seems like you can just wait for a friend to play it and tell you. 

[Thrak Balzak]

Justicar wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

It's like one step forward, three step back.

Dialogue with characters was the best part of ME2, plot was ****e, really. I loved that game because of my convos with my squadmates.

If squaddies other than Ashley get the Zaeed treatment, I will be sad. 

I'd be disappointed as well, as I always enjoy chatting with my crew between mission.  I'm sure I'll enjoy the game either way, but yeah I'd miss that aspect of the game for sure.

[android654]

Justicar wrote...

Thanks to sources, it's true that Ashley becomes Zaeed after 1 FemShep convo. The same is likely true for MaleShep that isn't interested.

Great. I'll add this to my list of things I don't like :x

REGARDLESS, I will still love this game. I'm just showing that I can calmly show distaste and excitement at the same time.

Ok, that is really bad. I think it has something to do with a spoiler from the script, but still.

[Hunter of Legends]

brfritos wrote...

Jynthor wrote...

Yes, it was quite depressing to see that.
Shepard just kept talking and talking, then you FINALLY get a dialogue wheel, and what do you get?
Where investigate used to be you now have one question and nothing more, then you have a Paragon and Renegade option, Neutral seems to be gone.

This is just a plain case of dumbing down, we have Action mode for this kind of gameplay, the RPG fans want Dialogue like ME1/2.

Yes, but the choices came out when you choose to investigate things and most of the videos I saw goes to "let's not spoil things", so we actually don't see ANY example what the left dialog option do.
I find this frustrating, come on, give us a example what the left dialog option do!

Said that, if you scrutinize the videos, all of them cut the action, cut the dialogs and cut what you are seeing, no video shows the enviroment in the detail.
No wonder people are upset, they don't see if there will be options or the dialog will be full auto.
I prefer to wait to the final game, everything we saw are a bit misleading of how things will be.

I've found great that using medi-gel is no more a simple press of a button, you have to actually stop of what you are doing and you are vulnerable during that time.
And the guy playing the game sucks hard... 

This is really just Bioware's marketing failing.

[FabricatedWookie]

In this thread, the startling tale of when a thirst for information comes back to haunt you.

[Hillbillyhat]

Phaedon wrote...

shep82 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

shep82 wrote...
Someone else logical on the BSN? *faints*:innocent:

Depends. I doubt mental gymnastics counts as logic.

He stated his opinion and it's a very logical opinion I do not see this mental gymnastics you speak of.

I'm tempted to say that I do see mental gymnastics, but not from Someone With Mass. 

Simply looking up the definition for Mental Gymnastics can tell anyone that its not what happened here.

[Dave of Canada]

Here's basically my problem with the auto-dialogue: It doesn't allow you to control Shepard, you can't be furious at somebody who betrays you or be dismissive to somebody you meet because the game plays out automatically based off your Paragon or Renegade score.

Trying to be a Renegade who's nice to your friends and allies but mean to your enemies? Too bad, auto-dialogue prompts you to be "Renegade" in your dialogue (which might be OOC) and appear brutish in your attitude.

Trying to be a Paragon who still threatens people? Too bad! You're going to be nice and caring everywhere you go.

Most of ME1/ME2's dialogue prompts did nothing in the end.
"Let's do this, Garrus. I trust you."
"I'm not sure about this but let's do it."
"Screw you, we're doing this my way."

All lead to a generic line:
"Okay, let's go!"

ME3 seems to just base your decision immediately off your Renegade / Paragon score and goes with it. Which invalidates roleplaying, you're OOC as long as you don't have control.

[Almostfaceman]

It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.

[Daywalker315]

Well I watched it. IMO it's not as bad as it was made out to be. Most of the 25 minutes is made up of combat and the guy playing running around acting lost. It took him 5 minutes to figure out how to leave the landing zone. If it was 25 minutes of dialogue and only 3 or so chances to choose what to say, I'd be disturbed. I really don't care if some of the more plain, common things get said automatically. I certainly don't want to choose every syllable the guy says.

The things he says automatically move the story along and for the most part, the only way to say it differently would be to give him more options to be a complete jerk and yell at people. Saying a couple different words that technically mean the same thing and progresses the story forward the same way doesn't HAVE to be chosen.

In fact, I'm getting the sense that it would have been prohibitive for them to do so. If this game has 40,000 lines of dialogue as is, can you imagine if every sentence out of Shepard's mouth (even completely irrelevant ones) had 2 or 3 options? They would have to cut other content for size or expand the game to three discs, not to mention the extra time and money to write in all the extra options that all lead to the same result.

The bottom line to me is: that video looked awesome to me. Combat looks good and the cutscenes and story were solid. There were a couple decent ways to RP, for example choosing how to respond about the Primarch while talking to the general. That also had three options, FWIW. One of which was on the left which may have actually led to more dialogue, and was not chosen by the guy playing.

The streamlining of basic things he says doesn't bother me that much. A couple more options on how to respond would have been nice but there was nothing imperative there. Example: When Joker radios in: I don't care if I don't have two or three options to say "Go ahead, Joker."

[best_eva]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...



Go read a book.

I am reading a book, I am currently reading Clash of Kings, the 2nd book of the song of ice and fire series by george R Martin, it's a really excellent read, it's a fantasy novel.

I'm also studying in depth The Pardoner's Tale, Dr Faustus and The Bloody Chamber for my education. I've got a good amount of books on my plate at this moment, thanks.

Kind of an immature retort you've got there, Hunter.

oh really?  Well Renly dies Stannis's army gets destroyed, Winterfell gets taken by Theon and than gets burned to the ground and Tyrion nearly gets killed but he gets his face messed up. 
It's a damn good thing that just cause you've read a book you aren't qualified to be a writer, you would've had Cersei and Tyrion duke it out right in the middle of the battle of King's Landing while surrounded by wildfyre. 

[Duncaaaaaan]

Hunter of Legends wrote...

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

Hunter of Legends wrote...



Go read a book.

Kind of an immature retort you've got there, Hunter.

As is telling anyone who prefers logical narrative to go play CoD.

Logical narrative? Explain how it's logical.

You can explain how YOU think it's logical, but this "logic" you are speaking of is purely subjective, one man's logic is another man's anarchy.

Perhaps it isn't logical, but then I never said anything about "logic" myself.

I just thought Shepard and Garrus having a talk about life, philosophy, past actions, past regrets, and the future, in the middle of a raging firefight, could actually be profoundly awesome. That's all. Doesn't need to be logical. A lot of the science fiction elements in the ME universe aren't logical in the first place.

[Justicar]

Thrak Balzak wrote...

I'd be disappointed as well, as I always enjoy chatting with my crew between mission.  I'm sure I'll enjoy the game either way, but yeah I'd miss that aspect of the game for sure.

As of now, it's only known to happen with the Virmire Survivor. So things look good so far. Well, relatively good, considering Ashley is Zaeed now. As long as it doesn't happen with anyone else, I'm still good.

android654 wrote...

Ok, that is really bad. I think it has something to do with a spoiler from the script, but still.

I'm not sure what you're talking about as I've not read the script. It's only bad, IMO, if it gets worse. It's just annoying now.

[Dave of Canada]

Almostfaceman wrote...

It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.

It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.

[best_eva]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Here's basically my problem with the auto-dialogue: It doesn't allow you to control Shepard, you can't be furious at somebody who betrays you or be dismissive to somebody you meet because the game plays out automatically based off your Paragon or Renegade score.

Trying to be a Renegade who's nice to your friends and allies but mean to your enemies? Too bad, auto-dialogue prompts you to be "Renegade" in your dialogue (which might be OOC) and appear brutish in your attitude.

Trying to be a Paragon who still threatens people? Too bad! You're going to be nice and caring everywhere you go.

Most of ME1/ME2's dialogue prompts did nothing in the end.
"Let's do this, Garrus. I trust you."
"I'm not sure about this but let's do it."
"Screw you, we're doing this my way."

All lead to a generic line:
"Okay, let's go!"

ME3 seems to just base your decision immediately off your Renegade / Paragon score and goes with it. Which invalidates roleplaying, you're OOC as long as you don't have control.

every time I see the name Dave of Canada I laugh, do the world a favor and die in a car fire or whatever your sig says. 

[android654]

FabricatedWookie wrote...

this all seems a bit like jumping the gun. Why would bioware, who went out of their way to give an mmo a myriad of dialogue options, suddenly change their formula on the final game? This is a lot of doom and gloom for not playing it.

Pc based mmo's are made up of nerds who love stuff like that. That's the same base that made DA and ME popular. Now ME3 is branching out, so they have to compromise a bit in order to keep new players since they're technically the bigger of the two.

[best_eva]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.

It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.

that's not what he said.