Dave of Canada wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.
It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.
best_eva wrote...
every time I see the name Dave of Canada I laugh, do the world a favor and die in a car fire or whatever your sig says.Dave of Canada wrote...
Here's basically my problem with the auto-dialogue: It doesn't allow you to control Shepard, you can't be furious at somebody who betrays you or be dismissive to somebody you meet because the game plays out automatically based off your Paragon or Renegade score.
Trying to be a Renegade who's nice to your friends and allies but mean to your enemies? Too bad, auto-dialogue prompts you to be "Renegade" in your dialogue (which might be OOC) and appear brutish in your attitude.
Trying to be a Paragon who still threatens people? Too bad! You're going to be nice and caring everywhere you go.
Most of ME1/ME2's dialogue prompts did nothing in the end.
"Let's do this, Garrus. I trust you."
"I'm not sure about this but let's do it."
"Screw you, we're doing this my way."
All lead to a generic line from Garrus:
"Okay, let's go!"
ME3 seems to just base your decision immediately off your Renegade / Paragon score and goes with it. Which invalidates roleplaying, you're OOC as long as you don't have control.
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 mars 2012 - 10:34 .
FabricatedWookie wrote...
I don't know. The reaction seems out of place. I can understand being worried, but to demand a response from bioware? Seems like you can just wait for a friend to play it and tell you.
Justicar wrote...
Thanks to sources, it's true that Ashley becomes Zaeed after 1 FemShep convo. The same is likely true for MaleShep that isn't interested.
[snip].
best_eva wrote...
oh really? Well Renly dies Stannis's army gets destroyed, Winterfell gets taken by Theon and than gets burned to the ground and Tyrion nearly gets killed but he gets his face messed up.Duncaaaaaan wrote...
Hunter of Legends wrote...
Go read a book.
I am reading a book, I am currently reading Clash of Kings, the 2nd book of the song of ice and fire series by george R Martin, it's a really excellent read, it's a fantasy novel.
I'm also studying in depth The Pardoner's Tale, Dr Faustus and The Bloody Chamber for my education. I've got a good amount of books on my plate at this moment, thanks.
Kind of an immature retort you've got there, Hunter.
It's a damn good thing that just cause you've read a book you aren't qualified to be a writer, you would've had Cersei and Tyrion duke it out right in the middle of the battle of King's Landing while surrounded by wildfyre.
Daywalker315 wrote...
Well I watched it. IMO it's not as bad as it was made out to be. Most of the 25 minutes is made up of combat and the guy playing running around acting lost. It took him 5 minutes to figure out how to leave the landing zone. If it was 25 minutes of dialogue and only 3 or so chances to choose what to say, I'd be disturbed. I really don't care if some of the more plain, common things get said automatically. I certainly don't want to choose every syllable the guy says.
The things he says automatically move the story along and for the most part, the only way to say it differently would be to give him more options to be a complete jerk and yell at people. Saying a couple different words that technically mean the same thing and progresses the story forward the same way doesn't HAVE to be chosen.
In fact, I'm getting the sense that it would have been prohibitive for them to do so. If this game has 40,000 lines of dialogue as is, can you imagine if every sentence out of Shepard's mouth (even completely irrelevant ones) had 2 or 3 options? They would have to cut other content for size or expand the game to three discs, not to mention the extra time and money to write in all the extra options that all lead to the same result.
The bottom line to me is: that video looked awesome to me. Combat looks good and the cutscenes and story were solid. There were a couple decent ways to RP, for example choosing how to respond about the Primarch while talking to the general. That also had three options, FWIW. One of which was on the left which may have actually led to more dialogue, and was not chosen by the guy playing.
The streamlining of basic things he says doesn't bother me that much. A couple more options on how to respond would have been nice but there was nothing imperative there. Example: When Joker radios in: I don't care if I don't have two or three options to say "Go ahead, Joker."
IMO it makes sense to not be able to have detailed convo's with the VS if your not their love interest. If we see it with others I would be surprised. It's possible but I think we will still have plenty of diaologue.Justicar wrote...
I just hope it isn't the icing on the cake. I hope we don't find more of this with other squadmates, ESPECIALLY Liara for me. Maybe it's just the VS, idk. Prothy as well.shep82 wrote...
A little dissapointing but not a big deal IMO.
I will be sad if it extends to other Squadmates.
Modifié par MartinDN, 02 mars 2012 - 10:30 .
Dave of Canada wrote...
Here's basically my problem with the auto-dialogue: It doesn't allow you to control Shepard, you can't be furious at somebody who betrays you or be dismissive to somebody you meet because the game plays out automatically based off your Paragon or Renegade score.
Trying to be a Renegade who's nice to your friends and allies but mean to your enemies? Too bad, auto-dialogue prompts you to be "Renegade" in your dialogue (which might be OOC) and appear brutish in your attitude.
Trying to be a Paragon who still threatens people? Too bad! You're going to be nice and caring everywhere you go.
Most of ME1/ME2's dialogue prompts did nothing in the end.
"Let's do this, Garrus. I trust you."
"I'm not sure about this but let's do it."
"Screw you, we're doing this my way."
All lead to a generic line:
"Okay, let's go!"
ME3 seems to just base your decision immediately off your Renegade / Paragon score and goes with it. Which invalidates roleplaying, you're OOC as long as you don't have control.
Wulfram wrote...
It's not about the amount of talking. It's about talking without any player input. I'd be far happier if Shepard had remained utterly mute.
It does no good for her to be chatting up a storm on the Normandy if she's acting out of character on all of the missions.
Dave of Canada wrote...
Here's basically my problem with the auto-dialogue: It doesn't allow you to control Shepard, you can't be furious at somebody who betrays you or be dismissive to somebody you meet because the game plays out automatically based off your Paragon or Renegade score.
Trying to be a Renegade who's nice to your friends and allies but mean to your enemies? Too bad, auto-dialogue prompts you to be "Renegade" in your dialogue (which might be OOC) and appear brutish in your attitude.
Trying to be a Paragon who still threatens people? Too bad! You're going to be nice and caring everywhere you go.
Agreed.Coreniro wrote...
If I remember correctly, some developer (maybe Gamble) said (during the Earth+Mars Hands on for reviewers) that they've tried to improve the way you get to know details about the context, past decisions, objectives etc. From what I've seen in the gamespot live stream and the few official vids available, it seems like they erased the investigation wheel, or at least most of it. For me it's not a really bad thing, because most of the time, during ME and ME2 that group of questions sounded like an interview. Take the dialogues with Tali and Wrex in ME, or Samara and Jack in ME2, or with Jacob at the very beginning of the second game.
Then, about the Neutral answer, I noticed too that they cut them from the third game. Personally I felt like they weren't really useful, because most of the time you ended up doing the same thing. Other times they weren't appropriate answers: if someone asks you to take a position, as a commander is supposed to do, you can't just say "I didn't choose to fight this war". If you prefer this kind of answer, then don't play the game, because you won't like it.
Dave of Canada wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.
It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.
lol xDA Golden Dragon wrote...
Don't mind Zaeed, I actually kinda liked him.
However, there isn't enough left of Ashley to fill a thimble, so I guess it doesn't matter.
Kaidan, on the other hand....
You aren't putting your point through very well.best_eva wrote...
every time I see the name Dave of Canada I laugh, do the world a favor and die in a car fire or whatever your sig says.
Almostfaceman wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.
It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.
The point was there isn't a whole lot of room for role-play in the middle of a fight, since that bogs down the narrative.
It's not about logic it's about narrative, there's no set structure to good storytelling but you do have to be immersed in the world and the characters. Having Garrus and Shepard have a conversation like that would be un-immersive and out of place. If the characters don't care about the situation they're in why should we as the player/audience care? Them having some philosophical conversation would be the easiest way to remove the audience from the situation.Duncaaaaaan wrote...
I just thought Shepard and Garrus having a talk about life, philosophy, past actions, past regrets, and the future, in the middle of a raging firefight, could actually be profoundly awesome. That's all. Doesn't need to be logical. A lot of the science fiction elements in the ME universe aren't logical in the first place.
Duncaaaaaan wrote...
It's interesting actually how the majority of the old timers here are the ones that are concerned over this game, whereas the newer members seem to welcome it.
N7Raider wrote...
It's not about logic it's about narrative, there's no set structure to good storytelling but you do have to be immersed in the world and the characters. Having Garrus and Shepard have a conversation like that would be un-immersive and out of place. If the characters don't care about the situation they're in why should we as the player/audience care? Them having some philosophical conversation would be the easiest way to remove the audience from the situation.Duncaaaaaan wrote...
I just thought Shepard and Garrus having a talk about life, philosophy, past actions, past regrets, and the future, in the middle of a raging firefight, could actually be profoundly awesome. That's all. Doesn't need to be logical. A lot of the science fiction elements in the ME universe aren't logical in the first place.
Justicar wrote...
>accuses others of being insultingPoliteAssasin wrote...
If there was any inflammatory discussion in my thread It certainly wasn't because of me or people who agreed with me, that's the trademark of the BDF to attack and insult people. But nice try though.
-Polite
>proceeds to subtly insult
/ok
Almostfaceman wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
Almostfaceman wrote...
It's mental gymnastics to say the narrative should be streamlined during combat and then more control over the conversations should be asserted on the ship post-combat when the player gets to take a breath and think about what just happened? I don't agree.
It's mental gymnastics to justify the no-dialogue by saying you roleplay that way.
The point was there isn't a whole lot of room for role-play in the middle of a fight, since that bogs down the narrative.
Most of ME1/ME2's dialogue prompts did nothing in the end.
"Let's do this, Garrus. I trust you."
"I'm not sure about this but let's do it."
"Screw you, we're doing this my way."
All lead to a generic line from Garrus:
"Okay, let's go!"
ME3 seems to just base your decision immediately off your Renegade / Paragon score and goes with it. Which invalidates roleplaying, you're OOC as long as you don't have control.
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 mars 2012 - 10:34 .
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