99 réponses à ce sujet

[ChowMan]

Hey guys,

What do you guys think? Is Blood Magic bad? I've played the games and there have been times where certain mages like Jowen, who would use it for good. You think they should all be looked upon as threats? Or do you believe with control, it can be accepted.  

[Fast Jimmy]

Blood magic is like anything else - a tool. Is Elemental magic bad? You can kill a child with a bolt of electricity. That doesn't mean it's 'bad.'

Any type of magic is only a tool, the person wielding it and why is the only thing that can be good or bad.

[TEWR]

Neither. It depends on the person using it.

I'd say it's worth it if you use it responsibly like Merrill and Jowan. The Chantry falsely paints all maleficarum as "evil". While most maleficarum that use blood magic are evil, the magic itself isn't. Nor are some of its practitioners, like the two I mentioned. There are more, but those are the two main ones the players come into contact with.

Certainly it's prone to abuse, but that's only if you use it like Danarius or Caladrius. Should it be heavily regulated and controlled? Certainly.

But blood magic also has its beneficial uses to society. The phylacteries the Templars use and the Warden Joining are two examples of beneficial applications of blood magic. The Reaver Joining -- while blood magic as well -- is wholly dependant on how you use the abilities of a Reaver. If you're like Nyree, then you're more or less a good person.

If you're like Kolgrim, then you're a bad person.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[stonemyst]

Well its ok for wardens and they fight the good fight. It is evil the diablo trophie from origins would lean towards the chantry rule of thouhgt. Its a packed with a demon spirt. I see the benifit of blood magic but it can be used for good as hawkes father did use it for the greater good. I see good spirts can be used for bad justice/vengence. I would think having a blood mage run through would be a good idea. I would like them too add more trophies it would encourge more game play run throughs

[MagmaSaiyan]

Since blood magic had always been used for destruction, to alot of mages, of course its going to be bad, but that doesnt mean it is, its the user who wields it, much like Merrill who never used it to hurt anyone other than her/Hawke's enemies

[silentassassin264]

Blood Magic is a way around the Chantry's control on the lyrium trade. Pretty much all magic is used for destruction save spirit healing. Making blood magic taboo is purely political.

[Chiramu]

The thread title is so black and white.


If I were a mage in the Dragon Age world I would be insulted to be called or to be a blood mage. It's an insult to your own personal power to rely on something as crude as that magic.

[GuiltySource]

I'd use it.

Screw the Chantry.

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'd say it's worth it if you use it responsibly like Merrill and Jowan.

Leaving your book on blood magic in a place your kid apprentice can find isn't really responsible.  Jowan's not an evil guy at heart, but he's also not the sort I'd want with blood magic

(Or any magic, for that matter)

[warriorrc]

With great power comes great responsibility [unless your dalish like me]

[andar91]

It's a tool, though it does allow for some morally questionable things (I.E. mind control or demon summoning). Even then, those things aren't necessarily evil if used in certain ways. As another poster said, a lightning bolt can kill someone just as blood magic can, so the morality of magic is no more or less complicated than the morality of using a sword.

That said, if I were a mage in Thedas, I would not use blood magic. It doesn't particularly appeal to me, and I think that using an art so close to demons is asking for trouble if you have to deal with them already.

[K_Tabris]

Some 'technologies', or tools may be neutral, but not when they designed with a specific purpose in mind. Blood magic requires a life force, and is used to control people, among other horrific things. It's not inherently evil, but it's certainly not neutral.

[dragonflight288]

Blood magic can be used to control people. Initially it was simply used as a fuel source instead of mana or lyrium. It wasn't until later that it was discovered that certain spells would only work with blood as a source. Like the mind-control.

I wouldn't say the magic itself is evil or bad, but the things it is capable of doing can very easily be used for evil things. Were I fighting for my life against a templar, I most certainly would use it to save my life so the templar doesn't have such an easy time negating my magic. Would I need to use it under any other circumstance?

Well if I wanted to purify a mirror shard of the darkspawn taint if I don't have sufficient lyrium.

[SirXblade]

Really depends on how its applied.

In cases like the Joining, Avernurs*spelling* Research, and other cases were blood magic is practical and bennifical I don't see it as evil.

However using the life-force of someone else just to gain power or do very bad things, then I would consider that committing an evil act.

Its like how I differ between a Blood Mage and a Malificarium (Yes they are considered the same thing but there are subtle differences IMHO)

Blood Mage = Any one that just uses Blood Magic for any purpose (whenever it be good/evil)

Malificarium = Any one that uses Blood Magic for purely nefarious and despicable means.

[Lynata]

warriorrc wrote...
With great power comes great responsibility

A responsibility unfortunately  too often proving to be too much for the flawed men and women of Thedas...

Talk the risks down all you want - it only shows how prone your characters would be to abusing it. There are few good reasons to employing blood magic, but many against. For one the nature of the spells exlusive to this school of magic, but also the effect it has on the Veil sheltering the real world from the daemonic, allowing creatures of darkness to pass over. And last but not least, the history of the Tevinter Imperium is a salutory lesson of what happens when people become used to this form of magic. I'm sure that in Tevinter, there were many mages once vowed they'd only use a little of their own blood ... then they started using a little of their servants ... then they started killing slaves en masse ...

"Just a little bit more" is a slippery slope to walk, and one that few people have the willpower, humility and dedication to resist.

In short: Yes, blood magic isn't inherently evil, but the same goes for nuclear warheads. You just don't want every wacko to run around with one.

Mandatory Codex references:
Blood Magic: The Forbidden School
The Scrolls of Banastor

Modifié par Lynata, 04 mars 2012 - 02:12 .

[TEWR]

Leaving your book on blood magic in a place your kid apprentice can find isn't really responsible. Jowan's not an evil guy at heart, but he's also not the sort I'd want with blood magic

(Or any magic, for that matter)

I don't think Connor used a spell to contact the demon. I think the demon established contact on its own through the Fade.

[Lynata]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I don't think Connor used a spell to contact the demon. I think the demon established contact on its own through the Fade.

Aye, didn't he just start dreaming of him some day?

[dragonflight288]

Malificarium = Any one that uses Blood Magic for purely nefarious and despicable means.

I once read somewhere in some codex, got to find it, but the Chantry's official definition of maleficarum is anyone who doesn't practice magic accepted by the Circle. Morrigan would be a maleficar just for her shapeshifting abilities. Wynne even calls Morrigan that.

Aye, didn't he just start dreaming of him some day?

Jowan said he wouldn't be able to tell the difference and he wasn't advanced enough to even summon the demon. He could easily have, in desperation, accidentally tore the veil so the demon could contact him. No one ever once said it came to him in a dream.

Granted...the Fade is the realm of dreams. All races, bar the dwarves, go there in their sleep. Even non-mages. Mages just go in conscious. Spirits shape the dreams.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

What gets me is both Wynne and Anders. Both are posessed and, I cannot believe Faith and Justice do not know how blood magic works. They know exactly how to use it but, chose not to IMO. Now that's just those two spirits being Andrastian.

Maybe spirits who are not demons can also be dealt with to use blood magic - maybe it isn't always a demon behind it. How did Malcolm and, later Hawke as well (if you have Legacy) manage it? Like it or not ANY Hawke ends up using blood magic in that one and, you don't even have to be a mage to do it. I hardly think it's evil.

[Taleera]

dragonflight288 wrote...
I once read somewhere in some codex, got to find it, but the Chantry's official definition of maleficarum is anyone who doesn't practice magic accepted by the Circle.

Yeah, the distinction between maleficarum and blood magic was his own, of course fueled by the acceptance of the latter as a "just another tool", discarding the risks, methods and uses commonly associated with it.

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...
How did Malcolm and, later Hawke as well (if you have Legacy) manage it?

In the case of Malcolm, whilst blood magic can commonly only be learned from daemons (lending further credence to the threat posed by its practicioners), this is knowledge that can also be passed on by books and treatises. Given Malcolm's reluctance to use blood magic - it seems the Wardens actually forced him to do it - I suspect he was handed some forbidden tome the Order kept around and was told to do what it says, though it is just as possible he accidentally stumbled over these secrets in the course of his normal research, like First Enchanter Orsino in DA2 (if his words are to be believed).

Champion Hawke on the other hand doesn't actually use blood magic, but gets used by it. The spell is still active, and your Hawke doesn't need to be a mage nor does he/she have to know anything about magic at all. All that Hawke needs to do is stand at the right place and let the active spell that has kept the vault sealed for so long do its work as it recognizes its original creator's bloodline.

In short, Hawke doesn't cast blood magic, he/she dispells it, being the key.

[edit] Lynata here, seems that for whatever reason I have two bioware accounts. *le sigh*

Modifié par Taleera, 04 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I disagree, were Hawke simply adding blood to keep the seals in place, that would be that, not magic. But he is actually breaking the seals, thus reversing a spell his father placed, and unweaving a spell is magic as much as weaving it is. IMO Silence and Dispel used by templars are also magic.

As for learning from a book - Anders specifically says that the only way to use blood magic is to look a demon in they eye and accept a deal. Yes you can learn how to do it, and the spells form books but, to actually do it you must rely on a spirit of the fade. Now I will give that ALL fade spirits probably know blood magic but, only demons will deal to allow a mortal to use it, hence Justice and Faith do not use it.

[SirXblade]

Taleera wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
I once read somewhere in some codex, got to find it, but the Chantry's official definition of maleficarum is anyone who doesn't practice magic accepted by the Circle.

Yeah, the distinction between maleficarum and blood magic was his own, of course fueled by the acceptance of the latter as a "just another tool", discarding the risks, methods and uses commonly associated with it.

Right, I forget that anyone using any kind of magic that isnt "acceptable" by the chantry means that I 'dont know the risks and methods" Lets disregard Phylacteries, and the Joining Ritual because obviously they are so nefarious because they are forms of blood magic. How about we practice Entropy which essentialy deals in more sinister arts and yet is considered acceptable (Raising the Dead? Sucking the lifeforce out of someone, Death Clouds? Walking Bombs?)
<_<

[Taleera]

 

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...
I disagree, were Hawke simply adding blood to keep the seals in place, that would be that, not magic. But he is actually breaking the seals, thus reversing a spell his father placed, and unweaving a spell is magic as much as weaving it is.

Of course it's magic, just (at least in this case) magic controlled by an active spell, not the subject. If it were otherwise, this would only work with a Mage-Hawke.

Exactly like triggering a Glyph or a Hex doesn't require the "target" to be a mage. Once all conditions set by the caster are met (for example: vicinity), the effect is triggered. Does that render the victim a user of blood magic? I don't think so. Though you could of course argue that some people within Thedas would suspect some sort of corruption or lingering taint from exposure.

Either way, bloodline relation is no different from range, affiliation or life force as far as spell activators are concerned.

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote... 

IMO Silence and Dispel used by templars are also magic.

At least as far as the energy itself is concerned, that would seem likely, yes - though it is much more limited in usage and likewise much more open in requirements, given that any and all people have the potential to become templars, but only a select few can become mages.

If I were looking for an easy-to-understand comparison, perhaps "magical energy" by itself could be described as electricity, just that you can have nuclear plants (mages) or a simple dynamo (templars) act as power sources, all with their respective risks and limitations.
Extremely simplified, of course, and not entirely correct, but it gets the point across I think.

It'll certainly be interesting to read more about how the writers at BioWare will deal with this subject.

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...  
As for learning from a book - Anders specifically says that the only way to use blood magic is to look a demon in they eye and accept a deal. Yes you can learn how to do it, and the spells form books but, to actually do it you must rely on a spirit of the fade. Now I will give that ALL fade spirits probably know blood magic but, only demons will deal to allow a mortal to use it, hence Justice and Faith do not use it.

This is a very interesting point I wasn't yet aware of.

Could this mean that the Old Gods - who supposedly introduced the first Magisters to blood magic - were demons themselves, or at least some other form of fade spirit?
I've once heard a theory that even the Maker - if this entity does actually exist at all or has existed at some point - may have been a Fade spirit as well...

SirXblade wrote...
Right, I forget that anyone using any kind of magic that isnt "acceptable" by the chantry means that I 'dont know the risks and methods" Lets disregard Phylacteries, and the Joining Ritual because obviously they are so nefarious because they are forms of blood magic.

Oh, I was merely judging the mindset you've displayed with your deviating personal definition. What would your motivations be for trying to separate blood mages from the label of "evil-doers", if not to justify its usage despite its effects on the Veil, its history, and its most common applications and practicioners?

Modifié par Taleera, 05 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[SirXblade]

Taleera wrote...

SirXblade wrote...
Right, I forget that anyone using any kind of magic that isnt "acceptable" by the chantry means that I 'dont know the risks and methods" Lets disregard Phylacteries, and the Joining Ritual because obviously they are so nefarious because they are forms of blood magic.

Oh, I was merely judging the mindset you've displayed with your deviating personal definition. What would your motivations be for trying to separate blood mages from the label of "evil-doers", if not to justify its usage despite its effects on the Veil, its history, and its most common applications and practicioners?

So because some forms of blood magic can open the Veil, mind control, summon demons, means that all forms of blood magic are evil (again Phylacteries anyone?)  How about when the Chantry sacrificing people to create  Sentinels? or when Dwarves create Golems? are they not sinister as well? How about taking mages away from their families because they have the potential to harm someone, is that not vile?
I seperated the terms Blood mage and Maelifcar from each other because the reality is that anything can become evil. take what Zevran says if you decide to kill the circle 
It really depends on how its applied.
Also I find it somewhat Ironic that you are judging my mindset for simply stating blood magic is really only evil if its used for evil purposes.  Would you condemn someone for resorting to blood magic if it was used in a way in which no one but the caster was harmed?
I could make an arguement about how Entropy itself is evil because how it deals with death and how dangerous it is, and yet the Chantry and Circle accepts it. How about Primal as well? Would shooting lightning bolts at anyone be considered evil if used on someone that did not deserve it? What about  Spirit magic where I can imprison anyone in a Crushing Prison and then shattering them with a Cone of Cold? wouldnt that be abusive as well? How about Templar abilities in which I can not only drain mana, but essentially tranquilize anyone because I consider them inferior! It really depends on how that magic in particular is used. 

Oh and before you got in a tangent about how "I Deviate the Terms" or try to paint me as the "I Think Blood Magic is totally awesome and that anyone else is an idiot if they think otherwise" note that I only responed because of your backhanded comment about me "Yeah, the distinction between maleficarum and blood magic was his own, of course fueled by the acceptance of the latter as a "just another tool", discarding the risks, methods and uses commonly associated with it" Nice job, you totally convinced and had me there for a second! Have a cookie! oh wait, I just discarded the methods and uses of giving you a cookie! <_<

Modifié par SirXblade, 05 mars 2012 - 02:27 .