1306 réponses à ce sujet

[batlin]

I mean, selling half as many copies in the first 10 weeks as DA:O is pretty telling. And half of those copies were bought in only the first week, likely due to fans of DA:O not knowing what they were getting. Yeah, there are those that prefer DA2 over DA:O but it's pretty obvious these people are in the minority.

Last I heard, Bioware is getting inspiration from Skyrim for DA3. Has there been any other news of what they'll do with it? Because taking pages out of Bethesda's book would definitely be a good thing for DA.

[whykikyouwhy]

batlin wrote...
Yeah, there are those that prefer DA2 over DA:O but it's pretty obvious these people are in the minority. 

Why is that? Do you have actual figures? Just curious is all, because that's a pretty broad generalization to make. 

As for "the wrong direction," that's really a matter of opinion and perspective. If you're looking at sales figures, perhaps DA2 did not sell as many copies as DA:O, but that doesn't necessarily dictate "wrong." 

[TheBlackBaron]

batlin wrote...

I mean, selling half as many copies in the first 10 weeks as DA:O is pretty telling. And half of those copies were bought in only the first week, likely due to fans of DA:O not knowing what they were getting. Yeah, there are those that prefer DA2 over DA:O but it's pretty obvious these people are in the minority.

Last I heard, Bioware is getting inspiration from Skyrim for DA3. Has there been any other news of what they'll do with it? Because taking pages out of Bethesda's book would definitely be a good thing for DA.

Depends on what pages they're taking out of Bethesda's book. Skyrim and Dragon Age are fundamentally different RPGs with different goals and design parameters.

@kikyou: For businesses, at least, sales are important. Bioware seems committed to whatever it is they're trying to do with the franchise, but they still have to answer to EA. And the latter may well decide that whatever it is Bioware tried to do with DA2 - trying to attract the CoD fans, as the meme goes - didn't, based on those sales. 

[Fast Jimmy]

If DA2 wasn't a Dragon Age game, but a stand alone title, it wouldn't have sold a quarter of what DAO did. Meanwhile, DAO, on its own merits, sold more than any non-Bethesda RPG.

So I'd say its a wrong direction, at least for making money. And, based on the widespread lambasting of its elements, I'd say its a wrong direction for fan acceptance.

Are their DA2 fans? Of course, of course. Its not the worst game in history, it has interesting characters and people seem to enjoy playing it multiple times.

But going from Game of the Year and outpacing any sales figures imagined with DAO to being voted Most Disappointing Game of 2011 and selling much, much less than DAO is, while possibly not "wrong", definitely not something Bioware was hoping for or aiming to happen again.

[batlin]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

batlin wrote...
Yeah, there are those that prefer DA2 over DA:O but it's pretty obvious these people are in the minority. 

Why is that? Do you have actual figures? Just curious is all, because that's a pretty broad generalization to make. 

It's not a generalization at all. In fact it's a very accurate estimation

http://www.escapistm...gon-Age-2-Sales

And yes, sales are an important factor in determining how many people liked it. If less people bought it than DA:O, there's a very good chance that people did not like it as much as DA:O, and since it sold less by a factor of half, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that DA:O is widely more liked than DA2.

[bleetman]

I find sales figures kind of weird for gauging how many people liked something. You can't reverse time and un-buy a product if you turn out to not enjoy it very much. Overall sales figures don't really tell you anything about how many people bought something and then liked it. It's not as if everyone who bought DA:O loved it to bits, either.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

No. It is generally accepted however, that Dragon Age 2 is taking BioWare in an innovative direction and that those who dislike it are just people who can't handle change or technological progress.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

No and, lower sales for DA2 may have been because those who bought and did not like DAO didn't buy DA2 at all. Sales have nothing to do with like or dislike. I buy things I KNOW I don't like because, I need them, they are for a gift, my family or guests like them etc... Sales mean only that it was marketed well and readily available, not that it was liked or disliked.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...

No and, lower sales for DA2 may have been because those who bought and did not like DAO didn't buy DA2 at all. Sales have nothing to do with like or dislike. I buy things I KNOW I don't like because, I need them, they are for a gift, my family or guests like them etc... Sales mean only that it was marketed well and readily available, not that it was liked or disliked.

Exactly, the reason DA 2 sold poorly wasn't because of DA 2, it was all DA:O's fault. That's why all of the feedback for DA 2 was positive (except for trolls from 4chan and RPG Codex of course).

DA 2 didn't sell much because Origins was such a bad game.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 03 mars 2012 - 04:11 .

[HiroVoid]

Then, Mr. Crustybot, how come Origins was praised with multiple awards and glowing praise while Dragon Age II became near the top on many site's and reviewer's list of most disappointing games?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

They're jumping on the bandwagon of disgruntled fans who were upset that they couldn't shag Morrigan or play the Warden in Dragon Age 2. These fans, mostly trolls from 4chan and RPG Codex, went on a vendetta to poison public opinion of Dragon Age 2.

Dragon Age 2 was one of the most amazing games to come out in 2011, but fans who had a misalignment of expectations ruined things for BioWare by spamming metacritic. It didn't impact the sales much though - that was Origins' fault.

As previously proven, people didn't like Origins and that's why DA 2's sales were so low in comparison to Dragon Age: Origins.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

It was a commercial success for a game that was developed in 1.5 years .. who are the old fans? They're small group of people on BSN and always noisy, whinny and unimportant ...

[Tommyspa]

@CrustyBot and Jedi Sentinel Arian +1 to both of you.

[Zanallen]

I can't say if the direction was wrong. The implementation of ideas (i.e. not putting enough time and effort into the changes) certainly was. I enjoyed the game, perhaps more than I enjoyed DAO. But it needs work.

[Djoxy]

It definitely is, bioware said that DA3 is going to be the best of the both games... I just want DA:O2...

[Zanallen]

Djoxy wrote...

It definitely is, bioware said that DA3 is going to be the best of the both games... I just want DA:O2...

And yet all of the information we have seems to point at DA3 being far closer to DA2 than to DAO.

[Chromie]

Tommyspa wrote...

@CrustyBot and Jedi Sentinel Arian +1 to both of you.

If only the others could see this.

[Zanallen]

Filament wrote...

Djoxy wrote...
I just want DA:O2...

No you don't, stop being ridiculous. No one wanted that. The naysayers have assured me of this many times.

Damn straight. No one wanted DAO2. They just wanted a "good game" and that misalignment of expectations talk is all nonsense.

[Maria Caliban]

batlin wrote...

Is it at least accepted that DA2 went the wrong direction?

Accepted by whom?

BioWare? They've agreed that they made mistakes. Not so much that they went the wrong direction as they misstepped while going the right way.

HiroVoid wrote...

Then, Mr. Crustybot, how come Origins was praised with multiple awards and glowing praise while Dragon Age II became near the top on many site's and reviewer's list of most disappointing games?

Why did Twilight get a multimillion dollar movie series while the Orphan's Tales lingers in obscurity?

Oh yeah, people suck.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Maria Caliban wrote...

batlin wrote...

Is it at least accepted that DA2 went the wrong direction?

Accepted by whom?

BioWare? They've agreed that they made mistakes. Not so much that they went the wrong direction as they misstepped while going the right way.

HiroVoid wrote...

Then, Mr. Crustybot, how come Origins was praised with multiple awards and glowing praise while Dragon Age II became near the top on many site's and reviewer's list of most disappointing games?

Why did Twilight get a multimillion dollar movie series while the Orphan's Tales lingers in obscurity?

Oh yeah, people suck.

Twilight had qualities that appealed to the masses. Namely, a romance between a young teenager (The target audience) and a hot vampire sparkly stud.

DAO didn't have any qualities that could be considered mainstream. At all. Hell, the whole point of DA2 was to push it into a more mainstream direction. So your comparison falls flat on it's face.

[alex90c]

CrustyBot wrote...

They're jumping on the bandwagon of disgruntled fans who were upset that they couldn't shag Morrigan or play the Warden in Dragon Age 2. These fans, mostly trolls from 4chan and RPG Codex, went on a vendetta to poison public opinion of Dragon Age 2.

Dragon Age 2 was one of the most amazing games to come out in 2011, but fans who had a misalignment of expectations ruined things for BioWare by spamming metacritic. It didn't impact the sales much though - that was Origins' fault.

As previously proven, people didn't like Origins and that's why DA 2's sales were so low in comparison to Dragon Age: Origins.

You sir ....

*slow clap*

[nightscrawl]

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...

Sales mean only that it was marketed well and readily available, not that it was liked or disliked.

This does not take into consideration the word of mouth component, or the review component, which does have an impact with some people on whether or not to buy a game.

A friend the other day was telling me about the original Orange Box Portal release. He liked it so much that when he had the opportunity he bought several copies to give as gifts to various people because he wanted them to play it. This has a positive impact on sales.

In the same vein, fans that came over from DAO who had bought DA2 and were perhaps disappointed have (in some cases specifically stated here on the BSN) directly told their friends that DA2 is garbage and to not waste their money. This has a negative impact on sales.

It should be considered also that in this weaker economy people might be reluctant to spend $50+ on a game that they are worried they might not like. So, they wait a few months for the price to be reduced and in that time there are dozens of reviews all over the internet about how DA2 was such a failure, has this or that problem, zomg teh gays hitting on me (I seem to recall this issue exploding shortly after release), and so forth that someone might decide to forego the purchase altogether, even at a discounted price. This also has a negative sales impact.

In favor of DA2, I'll argue that releasing it in March, past the holiday buying season -- which did benefit DAO -- did nothing to help the sales in this case. I think they relied on DAO to help carry it with the pre-orders a little too much, especially considering the reduced development time that this game had. Unfortunately, we will never know how much of an increase a holiday (2011) release would have helped DA2 sales, as well as the extra 8-9 months of development time that would have afforded since we cannot travel back, but it IS something to consider.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 03 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[TEWR]

Zanallen wrote...

Filament wrote...

Djoxy wrote...
I just want DA:O2...

No you don't, stop being ridiculous. No one wanted that. The naysayers have assured me of this many times.

Damn straight. No one wanted DAO2. They just wanted a "good game" and that misalignment of expectations talk is all nonsense.

Both of the snarky comments aside, I will be honest that I find the use of DAO2 and similar phrasings to be meaningless, as they seem to just really be used as buzzword phrases when used by people.

I've said before that I didn't want DAO2. But not only do I not know what that means when I say I didn't want it in response to those people that say "People just wanted more Origins"; in all my times asking that question on how "DAO2" is defined I have never gotten an answer.

I'm not sure what people mean when they say "more Origins". Playing as the Warden? That wasn't what I wanted DAII to be. Cliche stories? I didn't want DAII to use a generally cliche story. I was happy at the original concept where the politics of the Mage-Templar society of Thedas would be explored. At least, that's what we were told would happen, but I didn't see much of it being really well thought out.

But what I did want was a game that held true to what was promised by the devs and marketing. What I did want was a complete story that was tied together so tightly that each Act seemed interconnected, linked to the larger story of who Hawke was and what's happened to the world. What I did want was a need to not rely on a big bad to drive a narrative, but rather a game with moral complexity*. What I did want was a game that felt complete.

*Note that that doesn't mean I'm opposed to the artifact Hawke found. I think it actually could've aided in how grey the situation could've been if utilized appropriately. Alas, it wasn't.