1306 réponses à ce sujet

[Bizantura]

I have no problem Bioware changing and make more action orientated games with shallow caracters and story for a 15 year old audience. But they should state so clearly and that they do not. Their latest games DA2 and ME3 are clearly targeting alltogether an other audience. It is not about dummer audience but just a totally different one and at that one who usually don't like or respect each other.

[Morroian]

seraphymon wrote...

3options to the dialogue wheel is actually true. most of the convos thats all you choose, now granted your have an invesitgate, but that does not count as it does not move the conversation forward, it always comes down to red blue or green. Very few time did you actually have more, when you actually got maybe a star option, or a flirt option.

 
Investigate does count. There were investigate options in DAO they just weren't marked as such. 

seraphymon wrote...

However the writing goes hand in hand with the story, and i felt the story in how it was excecuted was poor, too disjointed, with a horrible ending. Being rushed to write a good story i feel just wont do.

The main issue with the writing was the segregation between the writing and the gameplay, they occurred largely separately and the feedback has been that there wasn't the option to change either to make it more consistent.   

wsandista wrote...

Competent writing gone: party members more shallow, less interactions with NPCs, plot that trainwrecks

IMHO the companions are deeper than in DAO. The lack of the ability to interact with companions at any time is a gameplay issue not a writing issue. The Act 3 trainwreck is largely driven by gameplay decisions eg. making the decision that Orsino had to be an endgame fight no matter what.

Modifié par Morroian, 10 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[Jitter]

Bizantura wrote...

I have no problem Bioware changing and make more action orientated games with shallow caracters and story for a 15 year old audience. But they should state so clearly and that they do not. Their latest games DA2 and ME3 are clearly targeting alltogether an other audience. It is not about dummer audience but just a totally different one and at that one who usually don't like or respect each other.

I think you are being generous with 15 year old. 

This game was made so the nose pickers at the back of the class in primary school could "Get it" 

as for a dumb down 

i think i can summarize the dialogue wheel in terms of game play enhancement 




and to stick to the pictures say 1000 words.


this is what i wanted from an RPG
http://t3.gstatic.co...zTik8ig6khqi-O-

and this is what was delivered in DA2

Modifié par Jitter, 10 mai 2012 - 08:34 .

[lyleoffmyspace]

People keep saying DA2 had an original story.

Just play The Witcher 2 - the story was just as "original" and much more satisfying.

Whatever you do, the world ends up in flames and chaos, it's not a typical fantasy adventure, and the politics were handled way better than DA2.

[seraphymon]

Morroian wrote...

Investigate does count. There were investigate options in DAO they just weren't marked as such. 

they dont count as they did not progress the convo, no matter how many times it was clickeed. Yes in DAO they're were those as well. Some progress the convo some did not, but alot of the time we had at least 4 or more options that were able to move the convo forward.

Morroian wrote...
The main issue with the writing was the segregation between the writing and the gameplay, they occurred largely separately and the feedback has been that there wasn't the option to change either to make it more consistent.   

that may be an issue, and it is for me a bit, but again the writing and story still alone not up to snuff for me, the idea coulda been grand, as it did have potential, but the execution is all that counts.

Morroian wrote...
IMHO the companions are deeper than in DAO. The lack of the ability to interact with companions at any time is a gameplay issue not a writing issue. The Act 3 trainwreck is largely driven by gameplay decisions eg. making the decision that Orsino had to be an endgame fight no matter what.

To me it was all a budget issue, but wether gameplay or budget or whatever else, to me that downplays the writing as well. IMO DA2 companions were incredibly one dimensional and shallow. Some beat out the lower ones in DAO, but i feel the top ones in DAO by far outclass anyone so far Dragon age has presented us with, and to be honest i think they are just getting worse, as with talis.

[LadySayuri]

All I know is that I pre-ordered DA2 and couldn't make myself finish more than one playthrough. However, I'm still playing DA:O after two years and four complete playthroughs.

[LinksOcarina]

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

People keep saying DA2 had an original story.

Just play The Witcher 2 - the story was just as "original" and much more satisfying.

Whatever you do, the world ends up in flames and chaos, it's not a typical fantasy adventure, and the politics were handled way better than DA2.

See, its funny. I played the first Witcher and I was not impressed with the storyline, and I have played a bit of Witcher 2 now, and while some things are handled better, I feel it is about on par, with Dragon Age II. Some things worked, some things didn't, some characters were awesome, and some was downright terrible. Both do different things, but both are in the same kind of "grounded fantasy" setting that no one else is willing to tap into yet. 

[TheHugoGamer]

I liked Dragon Age 2. I liked Dragon Age: Origins. Both had their good and bad sides, and returning fully to what DA:O was while ignoring what DA2 did right would be pretty bad. One thing I would like to keep is the combat with better spawns. To be honest, both DA games had almost identical combat, but it flowed better in DA2, and I who have played both games on Nightmare several times have to say I had to think more while playing DA2 than DA:O.
There was atleast two builds in DA:O I could use to solo AFK almost every boss in the game. That would not work in DA2.

[Issala]

I have to say that I rather liked the direction that Dragon Age 2 went in. In terms of design originality, it was a lot better than DA:O. Sure, it can be argued that DA2 ended up seeming like it really wanted to be a JRPG, but at least it felt less like a generic dark medieval fantasy. I enjoyed DA2's style more. While Origins is certainly the superior game -- worth its sixty dollar price tag, while I bought the second one for only twenty and felt like that was about what I got out of it -- I think Dragon Age 2 deserves at least a little more credit than what people give it.

[batlin]

Semhaine wrote...

I have to say that I rather liked the direction that Dragon Age 2 went in. In terms of design originality, it was a lot better than DA:O.

I asked this before and I'll ask it again:

WHAT is so original about DA2? What precisely did DA2 do that hadn't been done before?

I cannot think of one solitary thing and it pisses me off that people talk about DA2 like it's some brand new strain of RPG when there's less going for it than even Mass Effect 2.

[hussey 92]

batlin wrote...

Semhaine wrote...

I have to say that I rather liked the direction that Dragon Age 2 went in. In terms of design originality, it was a lot better than DA:O.

I asked this before and I'll ask it again:

WHAT is so original about DA2? What precisely did DA2 do that hadn't been done before?

I cannot think of one solitary thing and it pisses me off that people talk about DA2 like it's some brand new strain of RPG when there's less going for it than even Mass Effect 2.

Exactly, I found nothing in DA2 that I couldn't find in the ME series or any other hack and slash game.

[batlin]

Draythe wrote...

My thoughts on Dragon Age 2's development:

http://www.gatheryou...-modernization/

Sorry I've missed a good chunk of this thread, but my god this article perfectly sums up why DA2 went the wrong direction. There's simply no argument against it.

[coles4971]

batlin wrote...

Semhaine wrote...

I have to say that I rather liked the direction that Dragon Age 2 went in. In terms of design originality, it was a lot better than DA:O.

I asked this before and I'll ask it again:

WHAT is so original about DA2? What precisely did DA2 do that hadn't been done before?

I cannot think of one solitary thing and it pisses me off that people talk about DA2 like it's some brand new strain of RPG when there's less going for it than even Mass Effect 2.

I suppose the fact that it's the first game I've played where I've actually disliked the protagonist makes it original in my eyes.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

Well, I like DA2, and, in fact, I orefer it over DA:O. I considered it a 'build-up' story, where the momentum of the story will pick up in further installments. But, more than just the story, I like the characters of DA2 far, FAR more than DA:O.

Having said that, I do wish DA2 was bigger, and had more content. But that is more to blame on EA than the game itself.

[batlin]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

Well, I like DA2, and, in fact, I orefer it over DA:O. I considered it a 'build-up' story, where the momentum of the story will pick up in further installments.

So in addition to having a disjointed plot, it's also so slow-paced that it needs more than 40 hours in order to get to the good part? Even FF13 picked its pace up earlier than that

[batlin]

coles4971 wrote...

batlin wrote...

Semhaine wrote...

I have to say that I rather liked the direction that Dragon Age 2 went in. In terms of design originality, it was a lot better than DA:O.

I asked this before and I'll ask it again:

WHAT is so original about DA2? What precisely did DA2 do that hadn't been done before?

I cannot think of one solitary thing and it pisses me off that people talk about DA2 like it's some brand new strain of RPG when there's less going for it than even Mass Effect 2.

I suppose the fact that it's the first game I've played where I've actually disliked the protagonist makes it original in my eyes.

Well I played FFX so it's not original in that respect to me

[robertthebard]

batlin wrote...

I mean, selling half as many copies in the first 10 weeks as DA:O is pretty telling. And half of those copies were bought in only the first week, likely due to fans of DA:O not knowing what they were getting. Yeah, there are those that prefer DA2 over DA:O but it's pretty obvious these people are in the minority.

Last I heard, Bioware is getting inspiration from Skyrim for DA3. Has there been any other news of what they'll do with it? Because taking pages out of Bethesda's book would definitely be a good thing for DA.

I didn't buy it in the first week because I made the mistake of reading the forums first.  It's a mistake because I should already know from MMO experience that the most vocal people on the forums are generally the ones that don't like it, and the ones that do, that may indeed use the forums are generally busy playing it.  Lesson learned, or maybe relearned.  Having purchased the game, and DLC, I can't say I'm disappointed with it.

Thank you hater community for making me miss out on a year and change of fun.

[robertthebard]

LinksOcarina wrote...

lyleoffmyspace wrote...

People keep saying DA2 had an original story.

Just play The Witcher 2 - the story was just as "original" and much more satisfying.

Whatever you do, the world ends up in flames and chaos, it's not a typical fantasy adventure, and the politics were handled way better than DA2.

See, its funny. I played the first Witcher and I was not impressed with the storyline, and I have played a bit of Witcher 2 now, and while some things are handled better, I feel it is about on par, with Dragon Age II. Some things worked, some things didn't, some characters were awesome, and some was downright terrible. Both do different things, but both are in the same kind of "grounded fantasy" setting that no one else is willing to tap into yet. 

It is kind of funny, I have the first Witcher around here somewhere, and after a harddrive crash, and then an OS upgrade, I have never had the desire to reinstall it.  To each their own, I guess.

[AkiKishi]

batlin wrote...

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

Well, I like DA2, and, in fact, I orefer it over DA:O. I considered it a 'build-up' story, where the momentum of the story will pick up in further installments.

So in addition to having a disjointed plot, it's also so slow-paced that it needs more than 40 hours in order to get to the good part? Even FF13 picked its pace up earlier than that

Seeing something as a build up to something that does not exist seems a lot like wishful thinking.

Xenoblade took around 10 hours to get going. But that was a 160+ hour game.

[batlin]

robertthebard wrote...

I didn't buy it in the first week because I made the mistake of reading the forums first.  It's a mistake because I should already know from MMO experience that the most vocal people on the forums are generally the ones that don't like it, and the ones that do, that may indeed use the forums are generally busy playing it.  Lesson learned, or maybe relearned.  Having purchased the game, and DLC, I can't say I'm disappointed with it.

Thank you hater community for making me miss out on a year and change of fun.

This is a horrible misconception that needs to die. No, the people who hate the game are NOT always the most vocal. Want me to prove it? Look at the DA:O board. Compared to DA2, how many topics are there about how much DA:O is bad? Few, if any. If you remember that board when DA:O came out, I saw nothing but praise for it. Same with Mass Effect. By the way, the only complaint you will ever see about Mass Effect 3 is the ending. People do not complain about games for no reason, and people who come to the boards do not do so only to complain.

[hussey 92]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

Well, I like DA2, and, in fact, I orefer it over DA:O. I considered it a 'build-up' story, where the momentum of the story will pick up in further installments. But, more than just the story, I like the characters of DA2 far, FAR more than DA:O.

Having said that, I do wish DA2 was bigger, and had more content. But that is more to blame on EA than the game itself.

A "build-up" story is just a story where nothing ever happens, and at least the Origins characters didn't require you to hold their hand the whole game.  

[robertthebard]

batlin wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I didn't buy it in the first week because I made the mistake of reading the forums first.  It's a mistake because I should already know from MMO experience that the most vocal people on the forums are generally the ones that don't like it, and the ones that do, that may indeed use the forums are generally busy playing it.  Lesson learned, or maybe relearned.  Having purchased the game, and DLC, I can't say I'm disappointed with it.

Thank you hater community for making me miss out on a year and change of fun.

This is a horrible misconception that needs to die. No, the people who hate the game are NOT always the most vocal. Want me to prove it? Look at the DA:O board. Compared to DA2, how many topics are there about how much DA:O is bad? Few, if any. If you remember that board when DA:O came out, I saw nothing but praise for it. Same with Mass Effect. By the way, the only complaint you will ever see about Mass Effect 3 is the ending. People do not complain about games for no reason, and people who come to the boards do not do so only to complain.

Yeah, my mistake, I see all the praise you're laying out in this thread alone, sorry.  I'll go back to reality now.

[Sylvius the Mad]

batlin wrote...

So in addition to having a disjointed plot, it's also so slow-paced that it needs more than 40 hours in order to get to the good part? 

There's a good part?

[batlin]

robertthebard wrote...

Yeah, my mistake, I see all the praise you're laying out in this thread alone, sorry.  I'll go back to reality now.

I don't praise this game because it isn't worthy of it, same as most everyone else. If the sales figures themselves aren't proof enough that the majority of people were disappointed with this game then your reality is a tad skewed

[wsandista]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

batlin wrote...

So in addition to having a disjointed plot, it's also so slow-paced that it needs more than 40 hours in order to get to the good part? 

There's a good part?

The relief that the nightmare is finally over.